Read a Good Book Lately? : Villains versus Heroes by Lisa Phoenix

So far I've tended to write the hero's story... how about you?

Great observation Alle! In the original screenplay written buy the Infinite Filmmaker, there are no villains and pain and suffering don't even exist. Wouldn't we all like to be living our life's movie based on this script!

Every character's story is a hero's journey.

Yes Steven and we get to choose wether we want to transcend the ordinary world from which we came or to embody the extraordinary world the journey has revealed. I myself choose to live in the extraordinary world that my journey through spiritual awakening has revealed to me. Curious to know what has your journey revealed to you?

No, I wouldn't want to live in a world without pain, without evil. "Goodness" and pleasure have no meaning without their darker companions. I'd also be out of a job. That is what I've leaned on my journey so far.

You've got a point Steve! However, isn't the purpose of our hero's journey to search for that which feels good and yes, as Abraham states it, "we need the contrast of the pain and suffering to show us what we don't want in order to know what we do want to create in our life". But why do we keep attracting the same pain and suffering over and over again and refuse to transcend to higher states of consciousness that brings us the joy that we are searching for in the first place?

The purpose of the Hero's Journey is to overcome obstacles and grow as a character. The outcome doesn't have to be pleasant or good. There are no higher levels of consciousness. Stop trying to peddle your Christian-flavor hippy bullshit as a discussion on screenwriting.

Lisa started a great conversation about the hero's journey as it pertains to screenwriting and as screenwriters I would think that it would be beneficial to have an intelligent conversation about archetypes and how we use them in our writing to influence the characters that we create as well as our own lives. So if there is anyone who wants to continue this conversation and see where it leads without attacking each other because their beliefs may be different than yours, please feel free to respond.

I tend to write with a Hero as the main character. At least that's what has transpired thus far in my own writing. I'd be curious to see if I could get through writing an entire piece with a villain as the main lead character without getting derailed, bored, or just plain stuck. Which was the catalyst for me asking this question. Thinking off the cuff here about The 101 Dalmations, and also, along those same lines, of movies {from books, of course} like The Devil Wears Prada... to name two preliminary examples that came to my mind. I know there are more 'mature' examples out there...The Shining and anything about Hannibal Lecter are other examples. I think if I were to write a story about with a villain in the lead role, it would be one where they would end up as the unlikely hero, or at least a 'good salt of the earth' type in the end. I do love a piece where in the end, good or bad, the humanity shines through. Through pain, trials, and tribulations, and joys. Whatever it takes to bring the story full circle. Why do I write with a Hero as the lead character? I'm a hopeless romantic, I've seen enough pain for one lifetime already, or it's just what pours out of me when I sit down to write!

An issue that gets thrown in screenwriters face is the need for conflict in your script. How many screenwriters are skilled enough to write an interesting character whose moral compass points north. The majority of the time those particular films are documentaries. Its extremely easy to write an antagonistic character. The Sopranos, The Wire and Breaking Bad shows the public fascination with morally corrupt protagonists. The only fictional character that immediately comes to mind that's inherently good is Superman. But without his powers would people find him interesting?

You raise a good point / question Demiurgic. SuperHeros are typically inherently 'good'...Captain America / Steve Rogers comes to my mind. But, personally, I'm not as attracted to the antagonistic characters you gave as examples. I think right there lies the beauty of writing ... there are so many different types of people to 'write to' that the opportunities are almost unlimited! I, for one, am glad that 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder', so to speak! However, your point about the current trend towards fascination with 'bad' characters who sometimes show a human aspect intrigues me!

As writers we can make our characters experience both the light and dark side of life, knowing that as we allow them to embrace all aspects of life, the dark as well as the light, we can ultimately have them make a choice which will influence the other characters in the movie in either a negative or positive fashion depending on the choice. Take for example Darth Vader in the Star Wars movie. As Anakin Skywalker he chose to embrace his dark side to become Darth Vader, the dark Lord of the Sith whose goal was to exterminate all Jedi Knights. Yet in the final scene of the movie, when Luke Skywalker has to battle Darth Vader (his father) he is forced to face his own hatred and dark side only to come up victorious as he chose to not give in to the dark side and destroy his father. The shift from the dark to the light in Luke Skywalker has a profound affect on Darth Vader where he gives up his own life for his son’s salvation. What is true for our characters is also true for us and as we choose to embrace both the dark side of life as well as the light, then and only then can we choose to be a positive or a negative influence on those around us.

Totally agree with you Richard. The mother of of a traumatized son, not understood or loved by his mother played by Mary tyler moore in Ordinary People, comes to mind. The mother never changed her ways or attitudes towards the son who survived the boating accident accident and in the end she was not only isolating her son, her husband but ultimately herself , being left all alone with her demons.

Funny, I read the Hero's Journey stuff before writing my Ripple. I labelled it formulaic and not for me. I read lots of other stuff on the craft of writing and some of it was much more to my taste and far more suited to "MY" story. So I thought. Then I wrote Ripple and it has done well but often been described as a classic "Hero's Journey" ! Go figure. When I analyse it, it's true. All the requirements are there. It's a good thing I read that book, because it obviously went into my brain on a subconscious level, whether I wanted it to or not. And Ripple is better for it.