Cinematography : Game of Thrones - Season 8, Episode 3 - Making of by Florin Şumălan

The making of THAT episode should probably not be posted in Cinematography. Maybe in an audio SFX site, since the sound effects could at least be heard. Couldn't see the images as ithey were so ludicrously dark. Seriously, those involved know better, so I am left to guess how this could happen.. Were the effects so abysmally amateurish that making them unseeable was the only way they were acceptable for release? Were the non-visible images not quite telling the non-existent story in the 4 page "script"? Somewhere there are a whole lot of highly paid people who should be getting smacked in the back of the head repeatedly for this crap heap..

Trying to watch this junk was incredibly annoying and frustrating. Not sure tI will bother with this series after this catastrophe. My viewing time is limited and there are many more shows worth watching than I have time for. Game of Thrones is just not one of them anymore.

After 8 seasons this is my sole take-away from the franchise... merde.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/p/game-of-thrones-director-defends-too-d...

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/04/game-of-thrones-cinematographer-show-t...

What a bunch of bullshit. Seriously, its the viewers fault NOT the fault of the DP and Director???? Someone fked up and is now worried if they will have any future career. How they had the ability to overcome the quality control from HBO is yet another question that needs to be answered to say nothing of the 1 producer who is competent and not merely some actor, agent, or writer. HBO also needs to justify their “not our fault” response. What an utter cluster fk of ineptitude among many people, that led to the radio show that aired in my house.

My few month old high end home TV is set up with exactly the same tools and in the same way that I use when I personally set up the main monitors on my sets. Within 5 minutes of the start of this wannabe radio show, I turned off the lights in the room, so was watching in a completely dark room. Without raising both the blacks and the brightness I saw what was presented, NOTHING. Digitizing? Ahhh…. gotta be able to see an image to see if it is digitizing. Perhaps seeing an HDR version from a Blu-ray would show me the episode as intended, but there is zero chance I will buy it or ever watch it. More likely I will just cancel HBO as unwatchable programming is not what I pay for.

Florin, all that said, what is YOUR opinion? Please don’t just post something someone else said as you may be a posting something, like this bullshit, that is ahhh…. bullshit. While you did not originate the content, reposting it gives you a degree of responsibility for the content. The problem is that anyone who has any questions cannot get an answer from the source of the article. Kinda defeats one of the purposes of a forum like Stage32.

I don't know, Andrew..At first I thought too at this - that it's a little dark..anyway, I can say that I didn't have big problems watching the episode..maybe some shots were difficult to see, but it was night..in real life too at night you don't see all the details..I don't know what to say..maybe you can find on the internet somewhere the episode and try to watch it again, maybe it looks different from what you saw; I think it wasn't the cinematographer's fault, I don't know what really the problem was for some viewers..

As I am an HBO subscriber, the pathway to my set is by their approved method. The method the episode was being made to specifically be delivered upon. The Blu-ray 4k HDR version, if it exists, will be better. An iffy download from some bogus website? Ahhh... I'll pass. Any alternatives are meaningless as I've already wasted far more time on this than it is worth. I pay for HBO programming, and I got what was delivered. Invisible crap, a mediocre radio show. Like many other fiascos in our industry, anyone associated with this episode will try to purge their name from the record. Apologist whining after the fact by those at fault will not change what was done, nor will some phony-baloney "your set is wrong" blaming. Tell it to the kiddies, I know my set is correct, I know the viewing conditions could not have been better. I know the process. I know what I saw. I know shit when I see it or, in this case, don't see it.

If anyone could see the compete battle, then you watched a very different feed, on a very differently set-up TV than what I saw.

Anytime there are large numbers of paying customers complaining that something was unwatchable technically, there is an issue. A big issue as normally there are rarely complaints such as have been made about this episode. This just shouldn't be. Starting with the DP and the Director, there are many people who are responsible but really screwed up badly on this. They can take solace in knowing that the industry is not a meritocracy, and even less so now than it ever was.

Damn, this struck a nerve! It was meant to be dark. I did not view the episode until last night so I was prepared. I watched it on a calibrated 55in LED TV.

I understand the dark night winter battle mood thingy, but I could not tell which dragon was flying where.

As my grandma used to say “It needed a skoche more light.”

If the only thing we criticize about this show is the lighting on one single episode, then we may be spoiled. Too spoiled.

I have been shooting 45 years. 25 of those professionally. I think by now I know the difference between moody and muddy lighting. I have never seen footage finished like the GoT episode in question. Had I shot anything nearly that dark I would have been fired. Low key does not mean unwatchable, and viewing conditions or compression cannot be an excuse, other than all shows that finish for TV screens have to work on all TV screens, sizes, and brightness. That's in the very definition of QC standards for everything people get paid to shoot at any level and what seperates pros from hacks. That footage is a new low in hipster cinematography if it was actually intended to finish that way. There's not a micro budget horror film that would pass any distributor's QC looking like that. The fact is, there is no chance on a show like GoT the DP and Director shot what they did without calibrated monitors and tons of color and exposure data both in camera and on the cart, with a crew who also had their back. The show is post production heavy, leading to my theory that someone in post shoved the finish too far down into the bottom of the envelope and somehow it made it past QC.

I was a tape Operator for years. There's no QC accidents. Not with GoT.

The final Colorist doesn't do anything without detailed notes from whoever is calling the shots.

Royce I agree that it might be possible that somebody adjusted the levels after the show was color corrected under the direct supervision of the DP, but most likely not. Considering the DP has done interviews about how dark the episode is and defended his decisions by blaming viewers “improperly set-up” TVs, it seems more probable that the DP and a few others decided to push the image as far as they could in some ego related mine is bigger than yours office politics. Unless he is "falling on his own sword" to take the blame for a whole lot of other people. He and everyone associated are now in a position of having to defend themselves, not only in trade publications and forums, but now on general news sites. This isn’t going well for them.

Shooting something so extremely underexposed only serves one purpose, to force the desired look onto the release of the picture regardless of anyone else’s thoughts, because the needed information in the images to adjust the look is not there so it cannot be modified. I doubt that is what happened. Most likely the darkness was not what was actually shot. In order to see any information in the images that raising the brightness waaaay up might reveal, the exposure would have to have been far brighter than was shown on HBO. Using much more of the available latitude of whatever camera they used and then producing the final look in color correction based on a fuller image is the probable pathway to this cliff edge that they jumped off of. Probably didn’t see the edge of the cliff because it was too dark. Further if it was shot that far under-exposed over a period of 55 days(!!!???) surely someone screening the rushes would have raised questions. How this group of people had the political support to force the airing of the episode in that condition I find fascinating. Something worth looking into and learning. Sadly HBO and similar venues will be looking into the same questions and, no doubt, changing their internal policies to ensure no repeats of what is clearly a fiasco on many levels. I’m certain HBO didn’t want the discussion of this pivotal episode of their premiere series to be “ I can’t see a (insert many expletives here) thing”.

Ultimately there are many who will be in trouble over this. Rightly so. The responsibility falls squarely upon the DP for making these decisions, then the director and producer for being complicit. Then studio execs and QC folks at HBO. HBO suffers because of the angry responses they are getting from their customers. I am one of their customers, or should I say was a customer until 2 days ago. Cancelled and pointedly told them why. One of the few things I was following on HBO became unwatchable. The term “move on, nothing to see here” is most appropriate not only for the content but also the substance of that episode.

I didn't reply, I don't know what to say, I said what I think about this..I waited for the cinematographer to tell more details, but I didn't find any recent interview with him..anyway I will put a link (preview to episode 3) - perhaps it's not the right video, because it's short, but maybe you can tell if it's different from what you have seen: https://vimeo.com/332321379

Update: I am eating crow. I am watching it again on my large screen in a darkened living room. I have made no adjustments. It looks phenomenal. Also viewing it on a different provider than I watched it on my desk. The problem isn't the show. It looks great... on the edge, and great.

LOL. Royce, I've read this same reaction in various places. Looked awful first time I saw it, but it looks great now. It would seem likely that HBO changed what they aired. Trust yourself and what you saw both times as both can be correct if things were changed.

I cannot watch a rerun or On Demand version as I've cancelled HBO. Regardless of what happened, after what they put on, I would not watch it again. The series and the channel are both dead to me. The pictures on old radio dramas are the same and the production for those images is far better. Plus they didn't take 55 nights to create which is a whole different level of shock. Wonder what the budget for this fiasco was?

Andrew, your assumption of a re-grade makes total sense. That said, it is possible that it views poorly through one provider, streaming service and device combination vs. another. Not only were my devices and providers different, but HBO directly played poorly and HBO which I get at home through Hulu was great; a relatively cheap LG TV with no HDR or other excuses available. I don't follow GoT in any regular way, yet every character and their battle situations were easily seen. Frankly, it was kind of an awesome battle and story, so I must stick with my 180 degree turn.

http://vashivisuals.com/dark-cinematography-digging-into-the-shadows-of-...

Great information guys, just an outsider looking in, way above my area of expertise but still great perspective