Composing : Bar zero or no bar zero, that is the question? by Cesar Suarez

HI Cesar, Great QUESTION! Are you talking about the sheet music or the session prep? It's really a matter of workflow. I have seen anywhere from 5 to 17 bars before the cue starts (what ever you choose, just be consistent). We do this to allow for many many reasons, for instance: Director needs 10 more seconds before the cue starts for a string swell. Either way, It makes it much more convenient having empty space beforehand, then having to shift everything around so you don't have negative bars. Another reason is to make sure everything has a chance to "lock" to the time code (if you are using multiple rigs and need all the midi data to get sent properly and for the timecode to sync up properly. If you are a one-machine type person and are hosting video on the sequencer, that isn't so much a problem (still takes a fraction of a second to get stuff going) Then when we print the music we often just re-number the bars to start at bar 5 (or whatever). Really makes no difference on the stage when you are recording, what bar the music starts on - just important that everyone is starting at the right spot, conductor, musicians, protools operators, etc. Hope that clears that up. Best, Sam

Then in regards to the click-pre, the PT operator then can just start a bar before, and again can't do negative bars so it makes it easier for them. BTW - I think I only know of a handful of composer/conductors here still using punches and streamers, the majority seems to be using PT counter and clicks. Not to downplay streamers, I just not in practice as much as it was 15 years ago.

i agree with you Samuel, but i do have to say that streamers are a very useful thing when i am trying to make my sequence feel free from a tempo and specially if i am going to do a hybrid click vs free time cue that helps tremendously. i figured out a way to do it very seamlessly in DP. maybe one day i'll show a little video of how i approach a click based cue with streamers and give sense of free time and of course using tacet clicks. but i am getting to geeky now. thank Samuel for the comments. and yes i do agree with the answer to your question. specially when using midi outboard gear that needs time to sync correctly. fortunately i don't have to deal with that, so i usually use bar zero just for midi CC information and a quick pre-roll for myself when working solely in my DAW, and even when i am recording live.

all good info...from a practical point of view: I would suggest that however you setup your sequence/number your bars you remain consistent throughout the project. I've had bad experiences when trying to sort out warning clicks/start marks from the podium. The biggest problem is losing time to answering questions. Wasting time can be costly.

The common practice I've encountered among industry folk here in LA/Hollywood is that it's wise to start your music on bar 3 (with any pickup measure in bar 2 of course). This gives a nice lead-in of clicks for the orchestra before they have to start playing. But the REAL answer to this question is, do whatever works for the contractors working with you (orchestrator, mixing engineer, etc). Ask them.

2 bars in 4/4 does relate to the traditional "8 free"- not a bad idea to be sure Sam.

Streamers are kind of out of date by now, but yeah even if you want to do that you should have clicks in for safety. Even with streamers you usually have clicks. I'd say a 0 bar or even a -1 bar with two bars of clicks free like people said above.

out of date yes...if your music is rhythmic and requires a consistent pulse. Never forget though that the beauty of an orchestra (if that is what you are using) is that it can breathe (speed up and slow down) together... In that situation streamers and punches are invaluable.

Except now that we have to completely pre-program everything so cues get approved, even with ebb and flow cues - we still have to relay on click... so the bar counter and a protools split screen, is really what I rely on now. :( I honestly can't remember the last session I saw streamers and punches used, tbh.

Samuel, what's ebb and flow cues? i don't think i've heard of that before. but i would have to agree with Chris and say that streamers, at least IMO are still valuable for free timing, although out of date yes, but you can still achieve having everything pre-programmed and having streaming included in you sequence (ex. using Digital Performer Steamer function).

The cues that are "free time." I know we have gotten off the OP... apologize. Just want to be clear here, Don't ever want to say they aren't useful, (because they are and every film conductor should know how to use them) but we have new tecniques to do those cues now, usually creative protools editing and creative overlays/odubs. A large portion of the time, the sessions are split anyway so brass and strings are recorded at different times so everything needs to "click" anyway.