Note: I am looking for feedback to help me decide if I should replace my primary sample set. I am not looking to recommend or sell anything.
I have been using the Cinesamples orchestra along with Miroslav instruments and other instruments I have purchased to use with Kontakt. I can never get the strings, for example to sound as realistic as I think they should be - especially for legato. Now there may be ways of 'tweaking' them/their sound but I don't have the 'midi patience' :) to do that.
So I was thinking about for years moving to EWQL Hollywood Orchestra. I am much more interested in a single purchase than a recurring 'cloud' fee. So with that in mind (your subjective opinions):
1. How does the EWQL sound, especially legato and in particular the strings, compare to other comparable sets like Cinesamples. Could I get a more realistic sound without doing complex midi settings?
2. Can EWQL and its sampler 'mix' with other instruments that for example, require Kontakt.
3. I compose with Sibelius. Anyone use it with Sibelius? Is this an issue? I currently use the 64-bit version. Is it's samples called "Play" compatible with the 64-bit version (Windows).
Now would be a good time for me to try out things since I am not going anywhere for a few months :) and the purchase price of $586 (for 'diamond' with solo instruments). They are currently running a 60% off sale.
Below was my 'chat' with their techies:
P.S. - My professional composer mentor does not use EWQL but rather recommends Spitfire (which uses Kontakt) and of course VSL. So how would spitfire which is a bit more expensive compare to EWQL?
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Michael Tue, 04/07/20 02:56:51 pm America/Chicago
Hello. How may I help you?
Joel Irwin 02:57:34 pm
thinking of moving to orchestra. i'm currently use Cinesamples orchestra. How will sound be different?
Michael 02:58:07 pm
Hey Joel,
We have two different orchestras - Symphonic Orchestra is our older, but most awarded, Orchestra library. It was recorded in a Concert Hall by a recording engineer known for Orchestra Recording. Symphonic Orchestra Platinum contains 24-bit samples and three mic positions. It also includes Solo Strings instrument patches.Hollywood Orchestra is our newest orchestra library. It was recorded in our largest studio here at East West by an engineer known for film orchestra recording.
http://www.soundsonline.com/symphonic-orchestra
Hollywood Orchestra Diamond contains 24-bit samples, and 5 mic positions, including divisi instruments, as well as true-recorded legato samples. Hollywood Orchestra has a separate Solo Violin, Solo Cello, and Harp (they aren't included in the HW Orchestra).
http://www.soundsonline.com/Hollywood-Orchestra
So much for a more generic description. The main difference from a working aspect is that the Symphonic Orchestra already has reverb pre-added to it. It's more "out-of-the-box" and can be used directly without much further editing.
In contrast, the Hollywood Orchestra is very dry. This does allow for a lot more leeway in creating and editing your tracks to get the sound you're aiming for. Our libraries, and especially the Hollywood series, rely heavily on MIDI CC data. CC 1, CC 7 and CC 11 are used extensively to shape the sounds for more expression etc.
compared to cinesamples, there are a lot more detailed articulations so you can make more adjustments
Joel Irwin 02:59:04 pm
is there a place to shape the convolution? in play?
Michael 03:00:12 pm
The CC data isn't editable from inside the Play engine - it responds to that from your DAW though - there is a convolution reverb and you can edit that from within Play's FX (as well as there being a full SSL Suite in our engine)
Joel Irwin 03:00:57 pm
i work with sibelius 7. will I be limited? see play is only 32-bit.
Michael 03:01:20 pm
Play 5 and above are only 64-bit... we're on Play 6/.1.7 currently
Joel Irwin 03:01:49 pm
confused. chart says play requires sibelius 32-bit
Michael 03:02:26 pm
sibelius 6 and under require a 32-bit plugin, but with Sibelius 7 or higher you can use the latest version of Play
Joel Irwin 03:02:55 pm
what is the diff between hold and diamond?
Michael 03:03:12 pm
Gold is 16-bit samples with 1 mic position, Diamond is 24-bit samples with 5 mic positions and the HW Strings Diamond has extra bow change legato articulations and divisi strings
Joel Irwin 03:03:52 pm
can play be used the same time with kontakt for other instruments (in Sibelius)?
Michael 03:04:17 pm
Certainly - you'd just have instances of both the Play plugin and Kontakt in your 'Active Devices' under your playback configuration
Joel Irwin 03:04:33 pm
I do that already
Michael 03:04:49 pm
great
Joel Irwin 03:05:06 pm
is there a competitive upgrade option/process from cinesamples?
Michael 03:06:01 pm
No - just our current 60% off discount currently running
Joel Irwin 03:06:53 pm
i've scored 30 files with cinesamples and miroslav. anything else I should know?
30 filmsany other 'integration' options / opportunities to help in the notation in Sibelius to minimize my use of midi cc's?
Michael 03:08:57 pm
The Play engine samples, especially the Diamond versions, do take more CPU/RAM than cinesamples
You definitely would still need to record in Midi CCs for the HW series - or export your Midi to a DAW separate from Sibelius and edit it there. I know some people like this graphical interface - http://www.santiagobarx.com/gmt/ - for Midi in sibelius.
Joel Irwin 03:09:56 pm
my primary machine is a Xeon desktop with 32 GB
Michael 03:10:41 pm
Great
Joel Irwin 03:10:46 pm
well thanks for the info. stay safe.
I can't speak for outside the U.S. and it also depends on exactly what you are looking to learn. Your request spans two very broad area - audio engineering and write songs which overlaps with general...
Expand commentI can't speak for outside the U.S. and it also depends on exactly what you are looking to learn. Your request spans two very broad area - audio engineering and write songs which overlaps with general composing. You also need to determine if you want to want to take formal courses for a degree or just take courses, or perhaps just read books or watch youtube video which teach various things. It will also depend on your budget.
Now last night I watched two films / biopics that showed the diversity of ways you can approach songwriting - first there was the biopic on Brian Wilson (of the Beach Boys considered one of the top pop songwriters of the 20th century). My understanding was he was totally self taught. BTW - my understanding was that Irving Berlin, again one of the most well known songwriters of the 20th century could not read or write music. Then I watched "Rocket Man" about Sir Elton John who followed more of a 'traditional" path learning classical at the Royal Academy Of Music.
The basics of audio engineering is learning about the software tools (which often have user manuals and tutorials) and the design, constructions, and setup of studios. You can definately take a formal academic route, learn by reading and seeing, and/or intern in a studio and learn from others who are doing.
So as you can sort of discern here, books can be written just to answer your question. And there is no single tried and true solution. Alot of it has to do with the way you learn and your budgetary constraints and limitations.
I went into the composing business in 2003 by signing up for the same courses that students would take for a degree in music. I went through the standard 2 years of theory and ear training and then took instrument lessons and learn how to compose for orchestra by section. So while my original instrument was piano, I spent 3 semesters on violin to learn string quartets and then ditto for woodwinds learning clarinet. Sort of learning by living with the natives. Iearnt multipart harmonies by first transcribing music of the 30s and 40s for a big band (5 part trumpet, sax,, and trobone plus rhythm section). Then I took composing classes to create my own 'sound' which spans classical, film, and jazz. I still to this day take classes and write both film and live music (this was performed 4 days ago which I wrote the previous week - www.soundcloud.com/joelirwin/luna).
From an economic point of view I was blessed with a local 'community college' whose courses and faculty (Houston Community College) was on par with the four year colleges (though not as famous as other local schools like Rice University). What I liked was I didn't have to audition to get in, I didn't have to go for a degree, and initially my semester costs were between $1,000 and $1,500 (US$) - thousands less than full 4 year colleges. Now I am taking classes for FREE since the state of Texas allows me to take up to 7 credits of classes for free (as I am over 65).
I did for a while consider Berklee School Of Music (in Boston) which is a popular choice of those here in Stage32. But it can be expensive and it would be virtual as I do not live near Boston. Instead, I listened to a lot of different genres of music - both in and out of film - wrote both my own works and transcribed and arranged others, and studied both others scores (full orchestra scores), played jazz lead sheets of standards.
Hope this helps give you at least some perspective. Learn the rules and then you can decide what to keep and what to throw away. All the songwriters and composers - even the best ones 'borrow' without 'plagiarizing' - even Mozart, Beethoven and the Beatles! :) You need to decide what types of music are your passion and pleasure and how you want you music to sound - like others, unique, or perhaps you even what to forge a totally new genre - be happy with what you are doing, be your own best fan, don't be concerned about the competition other than to fully understand where you want to fit in the mix. Your a content creator - you will appeal to some and not to others.
Joel Irwin Thanks for your reply.
I suppose in most of our crafts, experience gains us more muscle than how many pages given to our resume or what schools we've gone to. It certainly helped me persona...
Expand commentJoel Irwin Thanks for your reply.
I suppose in most of our crafts, experience gains us more muscle than how many pages given to our resume or what schools we've gone to. It certainly helped me personally gain perspective, so thanks.