Composing

I can't speak for outside the U.S. and it also depends on exactly what you are looking to learn. Your request spans two very broad area - audio engineering and write songs which overlaps with general composing. You also need to determine if you want to want to take formal courses for a degree or just take courses, or perhaps just read books or watch youtube video which teach various things. It will also depend on your budget.

Now last night I watched two films / biopics that showed the diversity of ways you can approach songwriting - first there was the biopic on Brian Wilson (of the Beach Boys considered one of the top pop songwriters of the 20th century). My understanding was he was totally self taught. BTW - my understanding was that Irving Berlin, again one of the most well known songwriters of the 20th century could not read or write music. Then I watched "Rocket Man" about Sir Elton John who followed more of a 'traditional" path learning classical at the Royal Academy Of Music.

The basics of audio engineering is learning about the software tools (which often have user manuals and tutorials) and the design, constructions, and setup of studios. You can definately take a formal academic route, learn by reading and seeing, and/or intern in a studio and learn from others who are doing.

So as you can sort of discern here, books can be written just to answer your question. And there is no single tried and true solution. Alot of it has to do with the way you learn and your budgetary constraints and limitations.

I went into the composing business in 2003 by signing up for the same courses that students would take for a degree in music. I went through the standard 2 years of theory and ear training and then took instrument lessons and learn how to compose for orchestra by section. So while my original instrument was piano, I spent 3 semesters on violin to learn string quartets and then ditto for woodwinds learning clarinet. Sort of learning by living with the natives. Iearnt multipart harmonies by first transcribing music of the 30s and 40s for a big band (5 part trumpet, sax,, and trobone plus rhythm section). Then I took composing classes to create my own 'sound' which spans classical, film, and jazz. I still to this day take classes and write both film and live music (this was performed 4 days ago which I wrote the previous week - www.soundcloud.com/joelirwin/luna).

From an economic point of view I was blessed with a local 'community college' whose courses and faculty (Houston Community College) was on par with the four year colleges (though not as famous as other local schools like Rice University). What I liked was I didn't have to audition to get in, I didn't have to go for a degree, and initially my semester costs were between $1,000 and $1,500 (US$) - thousands less than full 4 year colleges. Now I am taking classes for FREE since the state of Texas allows me to take up to 7 credits of classes for free (as I am over 65).

I did for a while consider Berklee School Of Music (in Boston) which is a popular choice of those here in Stage32. But it can be expensive and it would be virtual as I do not live near Boston. Instead, I listened to a lot of different genres of music - both in and out of film - wrote both my own works and transcribed and arranged others, and studied both others scores (full orchestra scores), played jazz lead sheets of standards.

Hope this helps give you at least some perspective. Learn the rules and then you can decide what to keep and what to throw away. All the songwriters and composers - even the best ones 'borrow' without 'plagiarizing' - even Mozart, Beethoven and the Beatles! :) You need to decide what types of music are your passion and pleasure and how you want you music to sound - like others, unique, or perhaps you even what to forge a totally new genre - be happy with what you are doing, be your own best fan, don't be concerned about the competition other than to fully understand where you want to fit in the mix. Your a content creator - you will appeal to some and not to others.

Joel Irwin Thanks for your reply.

I suppose in most of our crafts, experience gains us more muscle than how many pages given to our resume or what schools we've gone to. It certainly helped me personally gain perspective, so thanks.

yes - see my post below on EWQL

I recently got Spitfire BBCSO and am navigating through using their awesome (free) template for the first time. It's nice to have it as a starting point. It's even useful for folks NOT using BBCSO as you can plug in your own instruments to the template.

I am finding some gaps in the BBCSO library however (some percussion like bell/mark trees, and brass muted insts, and woodwind runs) but nothing that can't be filled fairly inconspicuously with EWSO (which I've owned for years) or EWHO (via CC) for the brass FX.

Also, it wasn't a recent purchase per se, but I did recently set up a fresh template to kinda force myself to get acquainted with Spitfire LABS (freebie) library - I've shared the Logic template for free on my website in case you want to play around with those sounds: https://www.donalrafferty.net/product-page/logic-pro-x-template-for-spit...

I've got different templates for different kinds of projects. I still keep my HO template current, even though I haven't used it for a few years. Bottom line is that the sounds are incredible, even given its age (dude...Shawn Murphy). The downside, for me, is that I have to use a separate track for every articulation (and you might want to see how that translates to Sibelius, putting different string articulations on different MIDI channels). My workflow is faster, and somewhat more organic, when I use TouchOSC/keyswitches to change articulations (one instrument-one MIDI track). But HO Strings, Brass and Perc are still contenders with more recent libraries (WW not so much, imo).

As far as getting a more realistic sound without doing complex midi settings...you're going to have to do those with any library. There's no silver bullet for not putting the time in. I use controllers (WX-7, TEC breath controller, Handsonic, V-Drums, sliders, modwheels, keyboards, iPad/TouchOSC) to record every track into a DAW (DP) the way I would if I were recording studio musicians. If you look at the MIDI data from my Flute 1, for instance, there's a whole lotta MIDI going on. If I had to draw that out, it'd take some time, and it'd take some skill/experience in knowing how to translate MIDI data into a believable performance. If I perform the flute part on a WX-7, it may take me a few takes to get it solid, but I know the MIDI is a faithful translation of a wind player's performance, cuz I used a wind player to create it. If you don't go the composer/performer route, then you gotta put in the time to draw out the MIDI data. Until some better AI comes along, that's what's needed to make it sound musical.

I've matched HO with other libraries, but it takes spatial plugins. The process is to play a note on a HO instrument and then play the same note on a comparable instrument you're using from another library (using a closer mic, instead of one with baked-in room sound, or a combo of both). Then modify the space and placement until they sound like they're sitting next to each other in the same hall. I use MIR PRO, but I've also used Spaces (which is prob'ly your best bet since HO uses some of the same IRs), Proximity, Valhalla, etc. The trick is to get the early reflections and the hall reverb to match. That's a whole discussion in itself, but that's the goal.

As far as working in an engraving program for music production, if I had to do it, I'd record in every instrument's performance, rather than enter the notes through mouse/keyboard. But that's me. If you step-entered them, then you need to make sure the MIDI data sounds musical, by drawing in the expressions and tweaking the velocities.

One caveat to what I've said above, re: artificial intelligence and Sibelius, is the program NotePerformer 3. They've got a 30-day free trial you might want to check out. It still doesn't reach the production-grade I'd need to deliver to a client, but imo it's a great sound for a demo. And who knows, maybe by NotePerformer 5, it'll give you that silver bullet. https://www.noteperformer.com

The Diamond version of HO is the way to go, imo. When I used to produce studio soundtracks, I'd use the LsRs stems as you might a reverb send. You can use the surround channels in Diamond in much the same way, and with much the same effect.

Spitfire is awesome as well. It's my go-to template more often than not, especially the Chamber Strings as well as some of the Albions (Tundra, Iceni, and Uist). For me, it boils down to workflow. I can load in all the Chamber Strings and use TouchOSC to trigger different articulations. So instead of 16 MIDI tracks for Violin I articulations (which is what I'd load in for HO), it's only 1 track. And, I can usually play in a whole cue without stopping, by triggering the articulations as I go (unless it's really complicated and I need to punch in). There are arguments that it's better to have the articulations on separate tracks, so it's up to your personal needs. If you're handing your file off to an orchestrator then separate tracks are definitely cleaner. Also, for mixing/balancing, a case can be made that separate tracks give you more control. I'm of the school that if I can perform the part in a balanced fashion, I'm good to go. And having one track is a cleaner/faster way for me in the end.

I only have some of Cinesamples specialty instruments; no full-orchestra template. But I've heard some great demos from them. I mean, it's the Sony stage, right? Best stage in the world if you're a Goldsmith adherent. You might want to pick up a TEC breath controller and see what it does to your strings dynamically. My personal philosophy is that the best way to breath life into an electronic instrument is to play it like an instrument. Not that I haven't heard some great tracks that have been drawn in with a mouse. But those composers definitely have "MIDI patience."

Also, if strings legato is your main concern, you should check out Cinematic Studio Strings. https://cinematicstudioseries.com/strings Some of the best legatos out there. They also have great brass and will hopefully be releasing their woodwinds this year. The legato can be a little tricky in timing, but it's worth the effort. Combined with their Solo Strings (as first chairs), it's a killer sound. I use these strings for darker material, like in my score for OUIJA HOUSE (after the minute-mark: https://soundcloud.com/jonathanprice/ive-been-good).

I've always wanted to buy CSS, but haven't done it yet. A few weeks ago Spitfire had the Studio Strings on sale and I bought the basic package for $125 and I'm happy with them. next sale I'll upgrade and get all the mics. I did this the day after I got them. I needed to write a string arrangement here to a pre-recorded group. I locked DP to sibelius and wrote the chart then export the midi into DP and overdubbed cc. For 125 it was a bargain. (http://linwoodbell.com/clientdownloads/Esta%20Tarde%20Vi%20Lover(2).mp3)

Jonathan - your feedback is awesome not just for me but for everyone. I get what y'all are doing. I wish there was a way to sketch things out to sheet music like composers have sketched on paper for decades and then let the orchestrators provide the live performers basic information how to play and articulate leaving some room for the conductor to provide last minute guidance based on the instrument and microphone placements in the hall and the way he/she hears the sound in rehearsal.

But we are not there and creating such higher level 'expert systems' (I did my PhD research in expert systems back in the 70s) will likely imho remain embryonic perhaps this whole decade. Our eventual goal is to provide basic sheet music notation with textual instructions and let the players figure out what to do with having 10+ tracks with dozens of midi instructions which are specific to the sample set we have purchase. Imagine for example, the difficulty of say scoring for cinesample strings and then deciding to use spitfire strings instead.

My current philosophy is quite simple - if I were scoring a feature with a significant budget and the possibility of live performers, if the score was being mixed loud enough that the listener could hear the difference between good strings and significantly more realistic strings, between good articulations and really intricate articulations, I would spend the time doing exactly what you are doing. The questions becomes an economic and time one for me - what is the best use of my time and money. The filmmakers I currently deal with have little to no budget, my 30+ projects have all been shorts and my customers (filmmakers and viewers) already like the sound. I don't and my teacher/mentor does not. Some of it I can fix through using multiple channels changed through 'programs' (P1, etc...)which Kontakt, for example implements using 'instrument banks'. That enables me to use a single or small number of staffs and to change instruments via 'programs'. Some of it can be done with articulation control. But I don't currently have the time and frankly the interest, to 'tweak' the sound with advanced commands via the controls, sliders, etc. The 'incremental' improvement may not be heard in the final mix and my economic benefit of spending two, perhaps, three times the scoring time is not there.

One may argue that my implementations are currently not in the ballpark. I would think, that perhaps if that is so, it could be the original composition and voicings, it could be the arrangement the way I spread the sound across a single instrument to a whole section. I spend a portion of my time improving in that realm but it is I (and my teacher) who are no satisfied with the sound.

So in the time I now have (perhaps months) to take a score and find ways and approaches to learn and improve how it sounds, I am willing to invest (though not for Vienna :) ) some money in trying out and experimenting with other sets to see if I can at least currently get a more realistic sound with perhaps less 'effort' in having to work with MIDI to get it to sound the way it 'needs to'. Now is the time to invest perhaps in a product or products than CAN be used the way you describe but also have the basic functionality and 'sound' to be more realistic with a minimal amount of tweaking (mic placement, room shaping, articulation, etc.). But what I am not currently going to do, for example is to exactly control the bowing - for example, the difference in sound between and up bow and down bow. I may hear the difference and like it but my customers won't hear it and if they do - will not expect me to spend a lot of time doing that.

BTW - I have had Note Performer since version 1. I used to use it to demo my jazz lead sheets but for the last year or so, found it easier just to give it to the ensemble to read. They usually nail it by the first or second try and don't need to hear anything.

Here is a postscript - I never bothered to check the resource requirements - they are enormous. Again I purchased EWQL Hollywood Orchestra Diamond plus Solo. Here is the data:

Folders - 51,124

Files - 1,342,087

Space - 749 GB (804 GiB)

My machines had two 1 TB internal SSDs each. I don't have enough space on one SSD for the files I would need to clear out on the other one to make space. So I need another 2 TB SSD.

Here are my options -

1. If internal, should I go again with an ATA and swap a 1 TB for it. Or should I go with something like a SABRENT Rocket 4.0 which has a very high Passmark number, 32,356 (https://www.harddrivebenchmark.net/high_end_drives.html). Seems like if I have an available slot, the SABRENT PCI solution would be faster and allow me to keep the other 1 TB SSDs.

2. Or should I go with an external SSD solution. I would assume there would be a performance hit as the drive goes through one USB port (I could not for example find a Passmark result for the new Samsung T7 but I would assume its 5,000 to 10,000 at best). However, the tech support people say they use an external Samsung T5 SSD (the newer and faster T7 came out last month) and it works fine even if the samples are used/cached directly from the SSD and not first put into memory (though both of my machines have some room since they are 32 GB memory each). Using an external SSD would allow me to share between both machines without having to also look for a storage solution for my laptop - though an iLok solution (versus transferring the license back and forth would require two USB ports.

Any opinions?

You need to have a 'sync license' and a 'master use' license. If she is both the copyright owner and the publisher/record company, you have her agree to both. If she is just a singer but not the composer/writer/copyright owner, you need to find out who it is. And if her track was recorded by someone other than her, they would be the ones who have to grant the 'master use' license.

In the film and tv industry - pre-recorded music is obtained and licensed by a 'music supervisor'.

There should be many places where you can get samples and read discussions about the actual content of these two licenses.

I have done both. Sometimes I watch the film once (or read the script) - to get the 'lay of the land'. That helps inspire me for the 'thematic material' and the 'longer' cues. Though (so far), I do not have the style of constantly repeating material throughout the cues - perhaps limiting that to one or more places. So when it comes down to the actual cues given the scenes, I first look and listen to the temp tracks to get a feel for what the director/filmmaker wants, then I go away and create some music without the film and see where it wants to take me. Then I come back to merge and synchronize the musical cue into the scene.

Occasionally, I write a 'suite' - for me a suite is a self-contained structured musical entity that can be merged with a film. It can have 'mood swings' to match the action of the film. I have done it for a few films including the two documentaries I scored and both of those documentaries won their competitions.

Last year was the first time I scored 'in the blind'. I knew the film was about autistic young adults leaving their homes in Austin, Texas. I knew the film maker wanted 'wall to wall' music and exactly how long the music needed to be. I went ahead and wrote the complete score before I ever saw the film. I am not a big fan of scoring a documentary that way - especially music always behind dialog. But that is what the filmmaker wanted and he and the producer loved the score - so it is to a certain extent about happy customers :) and it was one of the two winning documentaries. And yes - I a very happy with and love that score myself.

I would say it's highly contingent on how much time I have. If I don't have time to write a suite or demo then I don't have time. But if there is time, that is definitely the route I like to go. I've found that watching the film is enough inspiration to get me going. But if I am looking at a specific clip and I have a click track going in with zero ideas, i've found that I'm not nearly as creative. Whereas if I step away from the film after being inspired, write and develop a few malleable musical ideas, I can work them into multiple parts of the film with much more ease and they come off sounding more creative (instead of just writing in a box).

Mostly directly with the film. Though I am always composing ideas with compound emotions in design. My first tack is to improvise on piano while watching the film. And doing this several times through, then editing in the better ideas, and out with the bunk. From there I begin arranging for orchestra. It has become a second nature to play the piano ‘not’ as a piano, but as an orchestra in mind. Often though, I will find a piece previously composed for nothing in particular that has measures that fit a scene perfectly, and shorten, lengthen, and re time those prewritten pieces to fit perfectly the rhythm and tempo and edits of a film.

I write the "theme" song based on the info I recieve from the director. Once I have the film then I write the score based on the theme.

It depends on your goal and emotions what you want to bring up in the audience's head.

Sometimes it's better to compose aside from the video to create a huge gap in meanings, subtexts and whatnot.

Big question, Derek! I think I found getting to grips with virtual instruments a very important part of getting those first jobs. Apart from that, constantly writing and practising, being polite and courteous, working hard and making deadlines, and having a good online portfolio of work were all crucial parts of my early career.

Get on a film crew. Sounds obvious but how do you do it? My first IMDB credit (of my current 30) was in 2013. I wrote the music for a competitive film called "Curveball". I have since worked with that director three or four times and in fact, last month became the first time that I had a film go to a cable channel (I scored it for him at the end of 2018).

You won't make any money with competitive films but they (1) get you connected with the filmmakers and show both yourself and them what you can do for a film and how you go about doing it, (2) build up up your 'resume'/imdb credits, (3) preferable to write music for a film that no one else has scored versus to just score without a specific scene (i.e., write to a 'library').

Check out: https://www.48hourfilm.com/indianapolis (I competed last year in Houston against about 50 teams. While I didn't win best score in 2019 [I did in 2017], I was nominated which I can still use on top of my credits). There are others but 48 could be the most well known international competition.

Hey John Zachary I'll hit you up sometime today.

Hey how are you Whats been UP lately.

Looking forward to working with Balikoowa and Joseph for the full feature of The Sojouner, which is in now in the planning Stages. THANKS STAGE 32 This is a great platform to connect with others who love to Create.

Dorico Pro 2 and higher has Video now, so one can write music with the video clip.

Logic X also has (insert) Video, which works pretty good.

Think the features in Dorico's Video engine are pretty nice.

See the details in the Instructional video. It's over 11 mins, though

going right to the detail how to do things.

I've tried it; it does take a little getting use to. Julian is prob. use to it, since similar controls are probably there, as stated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzehGY6AsYM&t=30s

Hi julian what's up.

Really interesting way to look at things Alessandro Machi and I laughed out loud when you said you could go on and on BECAUSE you are on a keyboard, but I feel the same way about the written word vs. the typed word. It's certainly changing the way we write our thoughts comprehensively.

Same can be said for synthesizer VSTs or instrument samples - don't they dumb down live musicians?

Pretty funny. You are right. I actually have brought a great deal of brevity to my verbal interchanges because I know you eventually get to the point of the ellipsis and "expand comment" as above. Therefore, I try not be as loquacious anymore and consider my place in the twitterverse, realizing I am just a small speck in this enormous chasm of reality. So I try to keep it short. And when I do, I think of Martin Short, who used to live around the corner from where I live now...

Joel Irwin, your question is definitely out of my pay grade.

There's definitely more screen space on a computer, freeing your eyes to do better music / thinking, in my opinion. an Ipad might be better, though still the ideas with a keyboard and music notation, laptop or computer, and the right composition within one's head is probably much better to create music. Yes, I agree with you, Alessandro.