Composing

I agree with you Joel. The only times I could understand this happening, is if the film requires a really niche piece of music, such as a Dubstep track, or an 80s Metal Song etc. Otherwise I don't see any reason why the Director would require multiple composers. Just like a good actor should be able to convey different emotions onscreen, a good composer should be able to do the same with the soundtrack.

This is a new production style that we see everywhere. Asking artists to speculate for work is degrading to the artform. However, it's a truism that this is happening more and more...

If you have to get involved in something like this my best advice is to demand that there be communication and transparency between composers. Most of music is a collaborative process and we work better together in a collaboration than independently in the dark.

I understand both sides of the equation... But I don't think the director understands that run length composition is another actor in his film. You can't change out actors halfway without loosing continuity. If that run length actor is an animated character then several people will collaborate. That's fine. But changing things out in the dark doesn't work unless you have a music supervisor who can insure continuity in the end.

Even then it doesn't sound like happy working conditions...

Sounds strange to me. If there's a composer duo or something like that, it's fine, but I think you'd be able to tell if music changes from one composer to another. :)

Yup. Sometimes two voices of music can work though. Like if you're in two different times. Or if you're trying to wildly contrast perspectives. But even then there should be communication and transparency.

This process is the sign of a half-assed director. So your instincts are correct. Don't do it. I wouldn't do it even if getting paid. When you're a ghost-writer and part of a team it's unavoidable but even then, it creates myriad problems.

I think that many composers, especially newer ones, can be very heavy-handed. Not every scene needs music, and not every scene that needs music needs music in your face.

I personally love reading scripts and getting a feel for what kind of themes and moods I want from that. If I get something in pre-production I will usually write some preliminary tracks to show the director what I was thinking, and then adjust them as we move on. Pretty much every job I have applied for, I have sent an idea of what I was thinking from my first impression of the project.

Once I get footage, I will watch it, come up with an idea, then write and watch, and watch and change and so on until I am satisfied. And then usually go back and repeat. Then I will usually make a rough mix and send it to the director. If they like it, I will mix and polish and send it back.

I hope some of that helps.

It depends on the preferences of the director. I've worked on scores where the director knows what he wants every moment down to the note and instrument, to one where he has no clue what he wants, to everything in between. My job as a composer is to accommodate them all. Contrary to some composers, I actually appreciate a temp score -- so long as the director isn't 'in love' with it -- as it gives us a point of departure. Some directors have strong ideas what they want yet appreciate (even expect) me to push back with contrary ideas. There is almost always some "marinating time" needed. There are different dynamics and creative processes depending on the personalities of everyone involved. So long as the shared goal is creating the best score possible for your film, I'll figure out a way to get there.

Thanks Geoff and Brian (I didn't see your response come in 3 weeks ago). I'm finding the temp music is helpful in establishing tone and tempo, and general mood. But the first composer I demoed (paid audition) just tried to reconstruct the same song, matching the instruments, and piecing it together differently as if the goal were to get around licensing. Even on round two or three, he couldn't seem to find his own inspiration and bring something original to the table. Hence 'tempitis' (not letting go of the temp music) can sometimes be a hindrance to both!

The guy I'm currently working with pretty much discarded the temp and wrote his own thing, guided by the emotions of the scene. Surprising me with something new and bold and fresh. I give him notes, he does his best to apply them, and we go from there. It really is an interesting process, and director and composer have to figure out how best to collaborate to achieve the ultimate product.

I agree with both Brian and Geoff - It's great to read the script and present my ideas early but tempscore by the director can be very helpful too. Here's my basic advice to you as a director that you may already know. Give as much info upfront about sound, instrumentation and mood as possible (that's why examples are good unless you are fluent in real musical terms) and be very available to quickly respond to every new piece submitted as to acceptance or changes. Also the dub for composer should be picture locked and have visual time code so you can be very precise about the timing of the music placement.

I also agree with you Christopher, that every composer/director collab have to figure out their own process because everyone is a little different in how they work.

To be honest, your question is somewhat confusing for me. Those creating short films, are often on a very small or no budget at all. If they use music at all, they go for 'creative commons' or some low to no priced music. I have just watched as part of the "Worldfest" festival ongoing here in Houston a bunch of short films - some had no music at all and some used free music. Another thing that happens with shorts is that the filmmaker, gets a band or one or more musicians to play for free. There are obvious advantages for this approach but it does have some drawbacks: (1) as the music is often pre-written it is up to the filmmaker/director to search for music that will fit with the action and intent of the scene (versus having a composer custom write music). (2) Also, the music will often not be of the correct length and so the filmmaker or his/her surrogate (often the sound editor) will have to decide exactly what portions of the musical clip to use.

Sometimes, a composer can be used to custom write music cues at little to no cost. Many composers will refuse to do this since they believe that they should be compensated for their time and creative artistry. So only a fraction of the shorts I have seen will have custom written cues. I actually do not agree with that philosophy. I believe that there is room for no cost custom written music as long as the rest of the crew is also not being paid. I believe it is a win-win since I get an opportunity to both practice my collaboration skills as well as to hone my ability to score for films. That is why I have 22 IMDB credits for shorts - all of which were done at no cost. I personally draw the line at features.

Another opportunity you may have though which is outside of the conventional film industry are wedding videos. About 80%+ of wedding videos are of 'cinematic' style which means the typical product, the "highlight reel" has no sound at all and the wedding videographers look to purchase music to overlay on the video. In my day job , I am a wedding videographer but I shoot in a different 'style' which normally uses the actual audio track and not overlaid music. Though when I am asked to/hired to, I will compose music. Here is a good example where I actually composed film style music, earlier this year, to a 'first look' segment my bride wanted overlaid music for. As you can see, the music is pretty much the same as a cue you would have in a film though it tends to be more 'thematic', structured and 'complete'. Though writing synthesized and orchestral music for highlight wedding clips is possible, more often than not, the videographers (who act as 'filmmakers' in this case), go with vocal music and often "singer songwriter style".

https://youtu.be/KIB6lmB4-q0

Your final comment "movie for music" is basically the definition of a 'music video'. Again, normally the video involves the performer/performers and the film/video shot is silent and overlaid with a pre-recorded music created/recorded live. However, this is not always the case. Back in 2013, I lent my pre-recorded musical piece called "Elegantia" to a filmmaker who created a film around it. The film went on to win a Houston competition and then placed 2nd to Paris internationally (12 awards in all). I was not in the video/film and it was not recorded live (though it can certainly be played live in the future). To get a feel for what I would call a 'film without dialog' and this could give you some ideas, check out:

https://youtu.be/jXfajMVeT54

Joel, thank you for advice.

hmmm.... don't see the connection with film composing... looks like just like a promotion.

It's a Stage 32 event posted in all sections. See banner at the top of the site. And here's the S32 blog post: https://www.stage32.com/blog/Filmcon-Hollywood-2018. ;)

The most awarded musical of all time - 10 Oscars in all (I think it is one four or is it five films to ever get 10 or more Oscars).... West Side Story. Nuff said....

ET. Well for me its more personal as its a film I enjoyed watching over and over again as I kid. But the melodic themes are just incredible!

thanks

Trevor Jones for The Dark Crystal.

Thanks.

THANK YOU Joel Irwin , Allen Lynch and Jonathan Price for your feedback!!! As a multidiscipliinary artist I have always loved music as an artistic vehicle, as an emotional expression but also fascinated by the technical aspects behind great scores. Contrary to other directors and writers, it is MUSIC what typically INSPIRES ME because certain songs/score are VERY VISUAL to me: It transports me into a dimension where the score becomes a plot, places, emotions, colors. In that sense, I work from inside out as I craft plot from emotional and abstract ideas into visual narrative.

I imagine that some music composers can also draw inspiration based on READING a screenplay, as oppose to others that draw their inspiration from the VISUALS of a film. Because, let's say, if you're a music composer and you're commissioned to do a feature film score based on a novel... You will probably compose score A based on your response from reading the original material and compose score B (completely different from score A) based on watching the first cut of the film. In which of these two spectrum's do you fall?

I am being hired to write music to support the action - very specific action at various points. The music needs to add to tension or surround and envelope you when two people kiss. These hit points can't be composed in advance. Certain music such as end titles, themes and motif styles can be created and used in advance. So in essence as a film composer I can do both A and B. But if all I do is just A, then I am really no better than a director just using a pre-recorded cue taken from a library. I would like to think I am adding value by customizing the quality and length of the cue to the action of the film.

I think you'd find a lot of composers that are comfortable with both scoring to picture and scoring from a script. The latter is similar to composing a tone poem or an opera.

This is really a question most thought of well before you asked it. I simply (internally) demand a chance to work with a director on not just the 'tones' and arrangements of an original score....but such minute details as to color changes from one scene to the next....and very very small 'movements' of the actors and actresses in scenes. If you have scene THE APARTMENT with Jack Lemmon.....remember the opening scenes when he was typing on a typewriter, and how the composer wrote the music to go along with that 'motion' . I feel a little more intense about it than that...and would like to come close to writing something like a ballet for a film. In order to do this....the composer must be in close communication with the director from the very planning stages of the production.....long and well before post production begins.

Wesley - just to quickly diverge - studying and listening to composers from before say 1970 is very important to any serious music creative. And many people who paid attention to say Bernard Hermann, Jerry Goldsmith, and Alfred Newman may have not paid attention to Adolph Deutsch who scored the Apartment. But his attentiveness and ability to work the music of the film musicals to perfection garnered him 5 oscar nominations of which he won 3. I will never forget the music of Seven Brides For Seven Brothers (one of his three Oscars) which I have watched many times just to listen to the choreographed and synchronized orchestrations to various dance sequences.

Great advice! And some of those comments sound a lot like what my composition professor would say!

Though, you won. Yes, still good advice to listen to others. I heard a good critique of one piece at Mix Me / FB group.

One of the hardest (to hear) yet the best piece of advice given me was - "Beautiful theme BUT WAY OVER USED"! I tend to weave the central theme throughout the film in various ways and with different orchestration. When I was told this (by more than one person) I went back and counted the number of times I brought the 'main theme' into the film - Each film since I am particularly cautious of when and how to use main theme(s). I also have needed to be aware of when and how best to use piano -

I am brutishly cadenza'd, Joel. And....a little bit confused, I got a message (I think from you, please forgive me if I am incorrect) from you on icomposition and haven't found the piece you spoke about in the letter. All the best to you, and from reading your letter hear, you are someone to whom I look forward to listening with.

hmm... i looked through all my private messages back four years and did not see anything with you. The full score referred in this post above was for "The Last Command" which premiered last Aug in LA - http://www.icompositions.com/music/song.php?sid=223655. I can provide a private link to the film on youtube upon request.

I sure hope Keala has a great performance of This is Me. She use to sing jing for me. What a little powerhouse she is. Always sings it like she means it, as you should.

I too think that Desplat will probably win, but I'm rooting for Burwell.

Dara, I usually root for the underdog. Hey Linwood! Who do you think will take it this year? When did Keala sing for you?

I'm with you guys with Desplat. I listen to it often, but still haven't seen the movie. I need to get out more!! It's been a long time since I've seen/worked with Keala. Like 15 years or so. Of course that feels like yesterday, though. Last time I saw her I did an arr of You Can't Stop The Beat from Hairspray for her to perform here in Las Vegas for an AIDS benefit. She was getting ready to go on the road with the company at the time. She deserves all the good things life can throw her way. She can give and deserves to get.

+1 Desplat

The rates vary on many factors including things like who owns the copyright, whether the film will generate any income, and the geography to name just a few.

Now I do something quite controversial - I will score a short under 30 minutes (film length) for free. Also consider that many if not most composers will charge an agreed upon lump sum which you can then figure out price per minute of music from.

Here is but one example for a 'short'. The first 8 films I scored last year, originally was supposed to be scored by a good professional composer friend of mine. I believe the agreement was originally for around $3,000 to $4,000. When it came time to score, the filmmaker offered only around $2,000 and the composer backed out.

Now around these parts of Texas, I would say the working figure for a rate would be somewhere around $150 per minute of music. But I can tell you that the rate in Los Angeles is significantly higher.

Great piece Daniel. Thanks for sharing.

You are welcome Allen. BTW great body of work you have accomplished so far.

Yeah, I think trailers can be an opportunity to get to the heart of a project. I scored the trailer for INOPERABLE (https://soundcloud.com/jonathanprice/inoperable-trailer) before seeing the movie. I was planning on composing new music for the film, but it turned out that the music I composed for the trailer was perfect for the main title, with some conforming (https://soundcloud.com/jonathanprice/inoperable-main-title).

That was great Jonathan! I had to turn my headphones down because I was frightened.

At that point with what you're doing, you're pretty much scoring a trailer. Difference however, is that you're composing to a picture that's already locked, in your case. Normally with a trailer, it's the reverse; the editor, director, production company, ad/promo company, etc. are editing to your trailer score you've already composed.

Either way is a good opportunity to diversify yourself as a musician and film composer. I will tell you that trailer scores have a certain format that usually works, and is different from how you would approach scoring a short, feature, or documentary. But, I will say that if that's something that interests you, like it now does myself, you'll be surprised at what you can come up with in 1, 2, or 2:30 if you follow the K.I.S.S. principal.

- Dana