Distribution : Has anyone worked with Adler & Associates Entertainment Before? by Christopher Bower

Christopher Bower

Has anyone worked with Adler & Associates Entertainment Before?

I am shopping around for a sales agent for my new film and I spoke with these guys at AFM and twice since. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience positive or negative with them before?

Ramy A. Katz

Same here, I'd like to know how was the experience.Please update me on this one too.

Denise Channing

I'm Internet stalking them now after getting an email asking about a film. Haven't found any negative gossip yet, but did find an article of interest. http://www.lasplash.com/publish/Film_106/afm-small-busines-but-big-succe...

Garrett Thierry

Hey, Check out www.SebastianTwardosz.com he is a partner at Circus Road Films About Circus Road Films

Michael Wearing

They've contacted me a couple of times via email and LinkedIn and appear genuine enough, however, when I have asked a few questions they've not bothered to respond.... Bizarre behaviour.

Denise Channing

Jose, I see your film is on Adler's IMDB. Has your experience of them been good? They've just accepted mine.

Shula Gattegno

Hi please go to my page Shula Gattegno maybe you could use me.

Denise Channing

Ok, I'm far enough along in the process now to feel confident about this company.

Jay Stern

Hi guys - I was just contacted by them about my latest film. Any further information? Denise, did you end up working with them?

Denise Channing

Yes. I've been working on the deliverables list, just finished time coding for subtitles. Communications are sometimes slow but they do happen.

Johnny K. Wu

A friend was just been approached. They seems legit but their request and first money fees are a bit high for indie filmmakers.

Jose Antonio Perez

really?? They didn´t ask for money to me. For the moment everything look like right. Could you please, writte in the post the names of the movies?, mine is 1 1/2 HOURS

Denise Channing

Johnny, do you mean the recouping of their investment and other fees that come out first? If you compare they're actually better then many. I've seen much worse deals. I've signed with them so we'll see how it goes financially.

Lolade Leigh-Thompson

Hi all, I was also approached by them and while I like the sound of them, I'm concerned about a couple of things . Though they not asking for any money upfront, I don't understand why there is a service fee and the commission rates are high. Comments please.

Denise Channing

You consider their commission rates high? Have you compared?

Lolade Leigh-Thompson

Morning Denise, I checked online for standard distributor rates and their's was higher. My lawyer also thought it was high. Did you negotiate with them?

Denise Channing

I have enough background with other indie filmmakers to see what they offered as higher than many.

Terry Owen

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Marcus D. Spencer

I am in the process of producing my 16th film and I was approached by them on my first couple. The first thing I did was went to their website, checked their catalog, then wondered if I've seen any of the films in the store (I did this for every company I considered). If I couldn't recognize any of the films then I didn't want that company.

I now have guaranteed distribution with 6 different companies (I personally would stay away from this company).

Just my opinion

Ari Taub

Has anyone made any money from a distribution deal with this company?

Robert Berg

They found me (I didn't submit to them), yet in their first email (before they would say whether they were interested in my film), they included a Submission Release form with several paragraphs of filmmaker indemnifications, promises not to sue for intellectual property infringement by them or their clients, and other fairly stiff commitments required with my "submission"... I'd say they're a bit sketchy. We decided not to play.

Heather Fink

Very unprofessional email exchange with them early on in communications. Rude when I asked a simple question. Major red flags all around, plus the twitter profile of Adler seems to be one that has paid followers (tell tale sign is high follower count with almost no engagement on tweets) There's definitely something too good to be true about a distributor who reaches out to you before you've even gone to fests.

Denise Channing

I find that common, actually. I was suspicious the first time it happened, and even the second, but because of some media buzz I've had several queries about one project of mine from small distributors and looking into what they do, have learned there's a thriving market in streaming, DVD and foreign sales that many filmmakers miss because they're looking exclusively at the multiplex in the local mall where indies have an uphill battle against the big studios.

Thom E Butler

Hey Denise (or anyone else with actual Adler experience) what has your experience been since signing?

Denise Channing

Infrequent communication, but over time the pattern emerges. At last count I was in the next batch going to Quality Control at a facility I chose from a list Adler provided. From what I see, my film is going to be among those they take to festivals this summer. I have my subtitles to finish off then I'm done with the list.

Some things, like getting the quality control check you need to get on Netflix, will cost, but it would still cost if you self-distributed.

Gary McClain Gannaway

I just looked up most of their horror film offerings on IMDbPro. I found only two that had votes registered. You have to have 5 before they begin counting. I think that is telling.

Antwon Taylor

If you are looking for international distribution with a prominent company, please feel free to contact me. Completed projects only. Thanks

Bradley Pontecore

Denise, I have also been hit up by Adler and they have a contract on the table. Anything else you can say about your experience so far? Are you happy you went with them? Did you try to find any other companies.

Anyone else who can help answer any questions about actually working w/ Adler specifically, I would definitely appreciate it.

Are all sales/distribution places equal? Probably not. What makes Adler worth it or not?

Do you feel like your film is just a piece of a package and not really an entity being sold because it's great?

I know a lot of people don't recognize their films, but that doesn't mean anything. They could be making money in Africa or on airplanes and Imdb would never reflect what's really happening financially due to sales that aren't in the theatre.

Thanks,

Brad

Denise Channing

I do feel happy with them. Communications aren't always as I might wish but they are professional and haven't asked anything of me any distributor wouldn't. Quality control was done by a third party company (Point 360) and I'm sorting some sound issues now so they can continue. Yes, I think films are part of a package in their way of working. Sometimes you have to be realistic in your expectations. I have a sheet from them detailing what I can expect to get from various countries.

I'm very good at spotting scams and I feel I'm dealing with a small, but honest company. I like the update they just sent from Cannes, reporting on the current sales situation on indie films. Complete honesty.

Bradley Pontecore

Thank you Denise. I also sense honesty. You feel that their deal are similar to other's you have seen? Specifically in the marketing realm.

Bradley Pontecore

Curious about the cannes report.

Bradley Pontecore

also, what is your film called?

Bradley Pontecore

Mine is called PUNK BAND.

Denise Channing

Hi Bradley, Yes, I had done a lot of research into how these small distributors work and their deliverables list is actually easier than some. My film is called Old Blood. Trailer here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0Wgg-aQrfA

Have you got a trailer made?

Denise Channing

The Cannes report basically said that deal are being made slowly at the moment. Chinese are looking for good deals out of Western filmmakers (they have a government quota for import films) but taking time about decisions. The market is in a cautious frame and they want regular reports on any outstanding deliverables. I must finish off my subtitles, still need a French translation.

Bradley Pontecore

Denise, just so you know. Adler was explained to me this way: ""I've never heard of these guys before, but their game is pretty obvious - snatch up as many titles as you can from self-financed filmmakers in order to build a giant library to dump it all on Amazon for a "cents/stream" deal ... They have a library that they got for free from filmmakers and they take the lion's share ... You'd probably be better off putting it on Amazon yourself and taking 100% of the meager money ... This company will do nothing to promote the film or anything of the like ... Their IMDB page clearly states that they're getting worldwide rights in all formats ... This means your movie is just a grain of sand in a sandcastle they're trying to build. It seems to me that they won't be able to do anything that the filmmaker won't be able to do himself, really."

Hope this is of any assistance to you or anyone else. Yesterday I was warned against them by a few other people.

Bradley Pontecore

Not that anyone is desperate, but this seems to be the company you go to when no one else wants to put out your movie.

Bradley Pontecore

and you don't want to do it yourself.

Bradley Pontecore

sorry to be a downer. The best of luck. I hope everything works out.

Bradley Pontecore

I do not have a pro trailer yet. Just an imdb page.

Bradley Pontecore

If you think you can do better than just have it released, I would consider breaking that contract by not delivering.

Denise Channing

Somebody didn't do their research.

I stalked them thoroughly, twice, before signing. Their strength is actually in foreign sales. They push very few for cinema release, so wouldn't be right for everybody, but they make the contacts at festivals for worldwide sales that people just putting their film on Amazon miss out on. Those foreign sales could finance the Fantasy film I really want to make.

The film I have with them is a vampire comedy B-movie and would only get cinema release in arthouse cinemas. One has to be realistic about the material they're working with.

Filmmaker gets 65%, which is better than some, worse than others. There are a few articles around the Internet about Adler's progress as an up and coming distributor. When it comes to it, the company your target market is talking to is the best one for any given film. Old Blood is not a blockbuster, but it's an entertaining film and will appeal to a widespread market, including foreign.

The thing that is really telling is checking out what other producers have gone with them on IMDB to see if people stay with them. One producer had a film with them, then went with someone else on his next film, but was back with Adler on the third one.

Orji Obiorah

ADLER contacted me today.

Their SUBMISSION RELEASE scared the life out of me. Just to submit my film for distribution considerations, I had to read through 5 pages of legal MAMBO JUMBO. I did't understand what I was reading at some point.

What scared me the most, is that they want a WORLD WIDE rights in ANY FORMAT for the film. Their SUBMISSION RELEASE is actually the distribution contract! GOOD GAWD!

I AM STILL SEARCHING FOR THE RIGHT DISTRIBUTOR.

The trailer for the film is on my page. Or, you can see it here: https://youtu.be/wlgbIuk_wOc

Orji Obiorah

The movie is an OFFICIAL SELECTION at the 2017 IndieFEST Film Festival (in California)

Denise Channing

Legal mumbo jumbo will come with any distributor, even just to look at your film. I guess it doesn't scare me because I've done legal work and the phrases are familiar.

Orji Obiorah

Ms. Channing, I don't know why you're vociferously defending Adler. Y'all should refrain from preying on hard working independent film makers. ADLER is a super scam.

Denise Channing

My definition of scam includes the scammer makes money off me. They can't make money without selling my film. How much I see is yet to be seen, but I have to fix my sound to get through quality control first. They haven't asked me for anything I wouldn't have to have to self-distribute. Things like subtitles, quality control and E&O insurance go with the territory, unless you want to sell half a dozen copies on Amazon services by yourself.

Johnny K. Wu

For anyone that may be interested. If you have a feature film and looking for a sales agent that wouldn't rip you off, my sales agent is one to consider. He is now looking for additional films to represent. If you got a trailer of your feature, send it my way and I'll share it with him. If he wants to see the whole film then I will request it from you. If he is interested, then I will connect you both. So send me message with link if you are interested.

Bradley Pontecore

Best of luck Denise. I think you have done your homework and are making the right move for you. It seems like you are keeping your expectations in check. That is good. However, unless someone shows you actual paperwork of how films like yours have done, it's all speculation. And when it's all speculation you don't know if they are telling you the truth or lying.

Remember the guys who made the Blair Witch Project? They sold that movie for 1mil. Obviously they never thought they'd get that much for their little movie, but the studio got over 100mil in the theaters and then cheated them out of any backend money on dvd. They made one more movie. I think maybe a couple of TV shows. Done.

So, what does that mean? Even on this small level we are working at (the VOD market), there are people who will cheat you like that's the way it's supposed to be. Yeah, Adler will make money off you because they package your movie w/ a ton of others for one price and once they're done covering the 70-80k you have to pay in marketing, you don't end up w/ much. Definitely not what a feature length film is worth. And who's to say they don't fudge the numbers and only spend 10k marketing your movie, yet they collect 70k straight from you. That section in your contract is rather tricky, isn't it? Your marketing budget is speculation and if they came back to you w/ what looked like real number after your film is release, you'd have no other choice but to trust them.

Having seen your trailer, I think you know what you're doing. However, if this film was your baby/ your shot/ your sci-fi movie, I think you'd probably think twice or 15 times about Adler.

Bradley Pontecore

Your marketing percentage that they are taking is going to them selling the film, not promoting it. They even say you have to be responsible to promote it on their site. If I paid 80k for advertising, I'd think that company would maybe advertise for me. For marketing, the same. Your money is being used to send them all over the world to sell your film. That's what they're supposed to be doing anyway. So, if they package your film w/ 10 others, they make 800k off the bat while traveling the world on your dime.

It's actually a truly brilliant idea. And it's not a scam. Your movie is released. They did what they said. It's just that you just don't get it seen by anyone, except in Africa and makes nothing.

They are not making money off your movie. It doesn't have a thing to do with quality or not. They are making money because you have a movie. Any movie. You are a piece in a package that is supposed to be sold for hardly anything.

If anything just remember this number. 80k = marketing taken out of your percentage. 10-12 movies packaged together. 800k+ just right off the bat w/o any promises to do anything other than travel to sell it.

This is for everyone obviously. I have done my homework too and I can also see a bad deal.

Bradley Pontecore

If you have a feature film, you have a product! Sell your product for what it's worth!

Bradley Pontecore

And Denise, if you're not convinced by now, to hold off and just check things out before you deliver, I really do hope I am wrong and you rock the shit out of it!

Bradley Pontecore

For me, I bet I could email them this thread and they'd still take my movie.

Bradley Pontecore

I obviously won't be doing that because others are involved, so no one worry about your relationships w/ adler or anyone else.

Bradley Pontecore

also, they don't take your film to festivals. They are sales conferences. TIFF is not the Toronto International Film FestivaI, it's a sales event. Your movie will be put in their booth and sold off like cattle. Also, I requested on the phone that they take my film to actual fests and they still put it in my contract that while they thought it was a great idea for me to take the movie to fests so I could do my own promotion and marketing, they would not be covering it and it won't be coming out of their (precious) marketing budget. That tells me they could less what I made. It does not matter as long as it's not porn or completely unsellable.

Bradley Pontecore

What I have learned is that if I have to, I can make these small films the rest of my life, make a good living and be totally content if I play my cards right on VOD w/ this first movie. Content was never enough for me, but it's nice knowing I can do this until I drift away into the great beyond.

Denise Channing

Bradley, what distribution service are you using? How things go with Old Blood will determine choices I make for my other film in edit. Adler advertising costs are capped at 50k, BTW. And yes, they sell packages in foreign sales. Domestic as well, but DVD and streaming. I've got the paperwork for what to expect. As you say, the Fantasy film I really want to make would have different criteria. They just got back from Cannes and do go to various festivals, but I'm aware mine is one of a catalogue of films from their point of view.

Bradley Pontecore

If you're aware, and the decision is a good one for your movie, I'd say you're making the right choice for you. I also got expectation paperwork. I looked it over. You could really put in any number you wanted to if it's just an expectation. For me they make it look like my film will top out at 500k. How many years until that happens and why I should trust those numbers when I don't know specific numbers for any of their other films is the real question? Since I don't recognize any of those films and when I look them up on imdb or anywhere on the internet you can't find financials on them (VOD market), I have to think that those spec numbers are nothing more than spec numbers and I will not make any decision right now based on blind speculations.

Bradley Pontecore

We are in different situations though and every situation should have a plan for execution. I wish you the best in yours!

Bradley Pontecore

I currently don't have a distribution service, but if I can't find one that meets my needs, I'll probably go with a friend who has made a living putting out his own films on VOD. His rates are much more my style and he does all the finishing costs, so if it comes to just releasing it on VOD, I'll probably use him.

Bradley Pontecore

Actually my ad costs are capped at 65k and they get the first 15k of what the movie makes for their "expenses of doing business with Adler & Associates", so that makes it 80k. I'd imagine most of their movies don't make enough to get you past the 15k. And I'd bet that's part of their design. We pay for everything, they distribute anything, they collect pennies on the dollar for our work and we walk away with nothing that we couldn't have done ourselves.

Bradley Pontecore

If you've done your research, you'll realize you're defending them before you've made a buck. I'm very interested in how things turn out for you. We can all learn a lot from this. Thx.

Denise Channing

I'm not defending them, I'm relating my experience and impressions so far. The jury will be out until I see if I collect any money.

Bradley Pontecore

Cool. Please let us know how things work out in the next few months!

Denise Channing

I will! We should all share experiences with specific distributors and sales agents to weed out the dross.

Bradley Pontecore

For sure. As a matter of fact, I am chatting w/ another filmmaker who went w/ adler. Her experiences seemed very positive. She also seemed very excited to just be released. So, take that for what it is. Nothing more than my impression.

Everyone on here needs to be a champion of everyone else! That way we can share info. and feel good about doing it.

Denise Channing

Agreed! Just think how sharing terms of different distributors can be useful to us.

Mr Robot

I think the red flag for me is that I keep getting contacted by a lot these distributors that got my info from IMDB pro. They don't seem to care about the quality of the film. Just that is a feature film that is finished.

Bradley Pontecore

I agree w/ this. I also think it's an amazing business model as long as you don't cheat the filmmakers.

Bradley Pontecore

Some people just want their stuff released.

Bradley Pontecore

Mine wasn't even done. Super rough cut and they sent me a contract.

Bradley Pontecore

Unless I'm the next Kubrick and haven't realized it yet, I don't usually get offers on uncompleted work. Ever.

John Thompson

Best of luck to anyone who goes with Adler. Worldwide deals are the worst deals to sign. You will not make any money as all your domestic sales will be eaten up by the expenses from international. Best of luck Denise. I hope your film is successful but honestly will be surprised if you see any revenue at all.

Erik A. Jacobson

Just checked out opinions on FilmSpecific.com regarding Adler. The founder of the site, Stacey Parks, who has many years of distribution experience, warned against going with Adler, saying they were a strictly VOLUME distributor, plus this "Anytime a distributor contacts you, rather than you contacting them, it should be an immediate red flag."

Bradley Pontecore

If you can, back out now Denise. I'll even help you release your stuff, or give you the knowledge to do so for free. Just ask.

Bradley Pontecore

If you want to see any money, let me help you.

Denise Channing

No thanks. I plan to see it through. Their model parallels how I would have gone about it if I self-distributed. As I see it, things are going well.

Bradley Pontecore

You would have spent 60-80k on advertising? Okay. I tried. Good luck!

Denise Channing

I'm not spending a penny on advertising, I don't know where you get this. And as I said, what they can recoup from sales for it is capped at 50k.

Bradley Pontecore

That 50k comes from your percentage and is marketing money. Read your contract again.

Bradley Pontecore

Adler makes their money, by jacking up unneeded percentages. You are paying for marketing. You're just not getting any, except maybe a picture in their sales booth. That's how they do it and they even tell you.

You can put your movie on amazon by yourself, you know?

Erik A. Jacobson

1)NEVER sign with a distributor until you've gotten at least three positive references from filmmakers they currently represent. Their contact info can be easily acquired on IMBDPro or you can message them on Facebook. 2) NEVER give worldwide rights to a single distributor. Get one didtributor for domestic and a separate one for foreign rights.

Adler is nothing but a bundler who will put anyone's film in their catalog for volume sales purposes to Amazon or another buyer. Don't expect to see a dime! FilmSpecific.com warns their hundreds of filmmakers NOT to do business with them.

Denise Channing

Bradley, putting your movie on Amazon yourself is worth a handful of sales at best. I know several filmmakers who have gone that route and consider it a last ditch effort when everything else has failed. I may well do it with the other movie I have because it has production issues that will never get past quality control, though it's still a good B-movie.

You've admitted you haven't distributed a movie yourself, so why are you so adamant about steering my course?

The OP asked for experiences with Adler, I'm sharing mine. I did substantial research on my options before Adler contacted me and was actually looking into the lucrative foreign sales market just before I heard from them. They have the extensive contacts that I was dreading the possibility of having to spend far too much time trying to form from scratch.

If you're a sound engineer and can help me reduce noise without getting echo, by all means, share your expertise. But I have no interest in dropping my contract with Adler. From where I sit, it's going well. As I said above, the final judgement will be when I see how much money I actually pull in from this. My expectations are in line with the product I have available and the projections from each country as laid out.

Erik, have you got a link to this warning? I couldn't find anything with a search on FilmSpecific.com.

Bradley Pontecore

Oh, I have no desire to steer your course. I'm way to busy on mine. Just tying to share real info I got from people (lawyers, filmmakers, production companies and other distributors who know this business and adler. It's your movie Denise, I am only a stranger w/ an opinion.

Erik A. Jacobson

Denise... check the last post on Adler & Associates in FilmSpecific's Distribution Forum section.

Bradley Pontecore

Erik, you mind cutting and pasting that. I can't access it.

Erik A. Jacobson

Bradley.... tried doing that earlier, but didn't work. Perhaps the thread is too long. But even non-members like yourself can access the Blog section.

Bradley Pontecore

I have been trying to do this for a couple days and I don't consider myself dumb at computing. I'll just assume what it says for now.

Bradley Pontecore

If you can, just send it to me as a direct message and i'll translate to everyone.

Bradley Pontecore

Jose, you've been working on quality control for 2+ years? That seems about 1.75 years too long.

Bradley Pontecore

Jose, I hope you didn't jump in before you tested the waters. Seems like you have a great film that may be seen in China. Much luck.

Bradley Pontecore

I'm also very interested in seeing your movie, so however that can happen is what I want.

Bradley Pontecore

Just watched your trailer, Jose. You have something special. Back the fuck out of that contract if you can. You can make some good money on this! You have good wins too! Man, I can see why others may go with adler, but I implore you to look at other options. You need this to be seen by as many people as possible, and I'm afraid that may not happen.

Bradley Pontecore

Jose, I guess here's the question: How did you do w/ them w/ Aftermath?

Bradley Pontecore

Since this is the second film you signed w/ them you know if you can make money or not.

Marcus D. Spencer

Once you sign with a distributor you shouldn't have to do any more work. If they have YOU doing subtitles or getting QC done than something is wrong.

FYI... the contract is not valid until you send the hard drive even if you've already signed. If you need help or advice I'd be happy to help.

Bradley Pontecore

Thanks again for breaking that down into less words than I can use.

Marcus D. Spencer

I've produced 16 films to date with 13 currently in stores and 2 coming this year as early as August 1st. There is definitely money out there.

Adler was a distributor that wanted one of my earlier films but when they couldn't answer the questions I had I knew they weren't good.

Also, they wanted worldwide rights... a big no-no without a minimum guarantee.

I hope this helps.

Bradley Pontecore

It does for me!

Bradley Pontecore

what exactly is stopping any company from planting someone in these discussions to influence our decision making?

Bradley Pontecore

Jose. So, the film you made in 2011 is still in quality control and has not been sold?

Bradley Pontecore

I'm so sorry, man. Don't give them 1 1/2 Hora. Just do not do it!

Denise Channing

Jose, which quality control company did you try? I've made things difficult on myself by going with Point 360, but if it passes them then Netflix is a possibility.

What audio editing program are you using? Sound that seems fine through headphones may not actually be loud enough. Some general levels quoted in this article https://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/how-to-set-audio-levels-for-video/

Bradley, if there was a plant, they would be singing about getting rich from Adler. No one here is doing that. I'm still on 'wait and see.'

Jose Antonio Perez

Bradley, about Aftermatch that was shot in 2011, I signed at the same time 1 1/2 HORA, now they are working in 1 1/2 HORA, I guest after that they want to follow with Aftermatch. I signed in 2015 both films.

Denise, the Company is QC Central.

Bradley Pontecore

Denise, true.

Jose, is there anyway to check out 1 1/2 Hora? do you have subtitles yet?

David Starr

Adler wants my movie 27 Matches, they have hit me up twice now. Has anyone received a payment from them?

Erik A. Jacobson

David, it would be a huge mistake to go with them. Vitaly is right, Adler offers anyone/everyone "distribution" so they can build their catalog bigger, getting perhaps 10K to 15K for your product from a streaming business which goes in THEIR pocket, not yours, then move on to the next sucker. You'll never see a penny yourself, nor will your investors.

Owen Ratliff

They have a 10 to 15 year contract and they do no marketing and promotion for you.

Bradley Pontecore

So, what's the story Denise? Curious about how Adler is treating you.

Denise Channing

They're waiting patiently for me to finish re-doing the dialogue. Finishing soon hopefully and getting the French subtitles checked over. They need these things to be able to sell. Hopefully the dialogue will pass quality control on the second pass. I know what to watch for now.

Bradley Pontecore

Is your movie in French? Do you have to re-ADR the dialogue or just for subtitles? What is their quality control like? I have honestly never heard of doing your own quality control. If your film gets picked up for distribution they almost always handle that stuff.

Dan MaxXx

I dunno who Denise's deal is with but when I sold my movies, I had to pay for all master tapes, clean and dirty versions, pay for subtitle files, closed captions file, translated my English script to whatever language /country purchased my movies. The distributor gives you a QC spec sheet and my master tapes had to pass their QC specs. If the tapes fail, I had to redo my master tapes. This is how it's done for home video & cable markets. Never sold a theatrical movie.

Denise Channing

Quality control comes from a third party company. I chose the one that Netflix trusts. The distributor does not make your film for you, making the dialogue files of sufficient quality is the producer's responsibility. Providing subtitles is also part of standard deliverables. Adler asks for Spanish and French.

Jose Antonio Perez

My experience... so long time waiting to get nothing for now. Good communication, but, I do NOT live from communication. I expect to get something at the end of the year...

Denise Channing

Have you provided all the deliverables Jose?

Bradley Pontecore

How long have you two been trying to get past "quality control"?

Denise Channing

As I said above Bradley, Quality Control is done by a third party company, same ones the big studios use. Point 360, which I chose, is one of two that Netgalley accepts certification from. The process took about 10 days, but I have been working on correcting the issues they found for a couple of months. That part is in my own hands and getting close to finishing so I can send it for a second pass.

Jose had said above that his Quality Control company found issues, but hasn't said what he's doing to correct them. A distributor has to have a viable product to sell. U.S. companies like Netflix have standards to uphold.

Nothing Point 360 found was bogus. They were genuine amateur mistakes which I've learned from and am correcting. Most of them were caused by noise reduction on the dialogue files. I now know what to watch for and how to correct room echo.

Bradley Pontecore

You're doing your own audio? I'm just not experiencing this quality control issue w/ any of the companies I'm working with. It seems like to me that your's is picking up unfinished films. I guess I can see how quality control would make a difference if that's the case. Oh, well, good luck. I'm waiting for the Sundance line-up to be announced so I know where I will be premiering.

Peace!

David Trotti

It's not unusual to get QC notes with the audio. And they can be notes as simple and pointless as "Third footstep after door opens, too much echo" or "Sound of sheet sliding across leg missing." Even when all the footsteps were recorded in the same manner on the same surface and the sheet was never intended to be heard siding across the leg in the cut. I delivered a film where we passed domestic QC, released the film in English with a scene deliberately designed to have no room tone to heighten the other sounds but for the German dub we had to put room tone in the scene just to pass QC for the Germans because they could not understand the intent was "no room tone" and refused to accept it without frickin room tone.

Alan M. Cossettini

I've also been contacted by Adler, they sent me their agreement/contract, like other distributors/sales agents as well. They all have similar contracts: basically it's a 5-year deal, 70/30 on everything digital/aired (70% to them, 30% to you) , 30/70 on everything physical (30% to them, 70% to you). Is that a fair deal? Or should I try 50/50? Any advice would help! Thanx!

Alan M. Cossettini

Thank you so much for your advice, will try to get the best deal.

Bradley Pontecore

Considering they do their business in the digital realm, I'd say your 30% is going to look very small.

Bradley Pontecore

They are also not offering up 18 month deals. More like 18 years. You lose ownership of your film. If you think you've made something halfway decent and aren't looking for just distribution w/ zero return, take a look at The Film Collaborative. I can't recco anyone, but they are good people.

Thom E Butler

I took a pass on Adler, but they didn't offer me a 5 year deal... they wanted much longer (the aforementioned 18 years).

My fiscal sponsor is The Film Collaborative and I can't say enough good about them. They didn'the accept my film for distribution because they felt like they couldn'the do it right. They were supremely helpful.

I would have taken 5 years probably. As for the percentages, I was advised that they were WAY high, but I probably would have lived with that on a shorter time frame.

Denise Channing

Alan, 70-30 is only standard for direct dealing with the cinema. That's not what my contract has. Several years deals are standard. I suggest before you take advice from anyone, you check their experience on IMDB. That's where I went first to see who had dealt with Adler and the results. The Internet is full of 'experts'.

Being a first timer myself, I figure the test starts when I've delivered a salable product, i.e. when I get my film past Quality Control. The fact that they won't try to sell any old rubbish is actually good. The corrections I'm making now really were cringe-worthy.

Denise Channing

David, thanks for your comments with QC. I called them on a couple of things that were intentional effects and they seem willing to pass those when I send it through again. The dialogue sound did have genuine issues though and there was one legitimate flicker in the video.

Bradley Pontecore

I'm backing out of this conversation, because it seems like nonsense at this point. If you have a good film, your film will find the right people. If you have a film that is not so great, I'd say Adler is fine if you just want distribution and aren't worried about the money. If Denise's situation is an example, it should be that signing a contract on an unfinished movie can lead to a couple years of back and forth. I only let a few people view PUNK BAND before it was finished, sound design, mixing and everything, so it was a sellable product before anyone "important" viewed it. Adler does serve a purpose, even though I truly believe their "game" is not ethical. Good luck to everyone. Peace, Brad.

Alan M. Cossettini

Thank you Denise, Bradley and everyone: every comment is useful, we have several options from sales agents and we're trying to get the best options. I'll keep you updated and let you know as we sign the best deal.

Denise Channing

Best of luck, Alan. Do let us know. Comparing notes on small distributors could be very useful for all of us!

Alan M. Cossettini

Ok just to close this discussion: we have skipped Adler for now and went for a smaller sales agent. We closed a one-year representation, they will bring our films at the AFM in november and at the EFM in Berlin in february 2018, plus a whole bunch of other film markets. 25-75 deal in our favor for any sell, and if they see there's some good buzz around they may consider co-production on our next movies and go 50-50. If nothing happens in one year, we're free to try another sales agent. That's a good deal to us. I'll let you know what happens.

Alan M. Cossettini

Yes Vitaly, sure I agree. But for now, we have just one SA and we'll see how he works. Of course we'd like to have the same SA forever! :))

Denise Channing

Best of luck to you Alan. Do let us know how it goes!

Erik A. Jacobson

WARNING! Perhaps because of the negative word-of-mouth they have been receiving, Marie Adler has recently opened a "new" distributor called A&AE. Steer clear of them... and of any distributor who contacts you first about your film! It's always a red flag!

Mr Robot

Alan, did you have to pay anything upfront to your SA?

Alan M. Cossettini

No, Mr Robot, didn't pay anything.

Don Clovis

i SAW ADLER AT CANNES FILMS FESTIVAL LAST IN MAY, but at the booth was more like party, laughting, and show contract aroundd, but I didn t talk to them, , dont feel ok to do

William Lee

I just got an inquiry from them, but not impressed by their products, nor the spelling errors on their various social pages. Don't get a good impression, but maybe it's me because I have been on that merry go round since the early 80's. Sounds like the Old York Entertainment scenario. They're still selling my films CODE BLACK and DEMONS RISING around the world and never saw a dime. We now work with a sales guy who has gotten us exclusive distribution through Redbox. No deliverables on my end. Just shoot, submit, he takes care of the art work, the negotiations, and we get checks. It wasn't easy, it was a 12 year relationship which finally paid off. Best advice is, if you are looking for quick cash, get a rich uncle or get some good L.A. connections. The distribution business is full of empty promises and light paychecks, or front end deductions. good luck peeps.

Christopher McDonell

Have been reading this thread with great interest.

John Borowski

Sell a few copies on Amazon? Hilarious. Advertising costs capped at 50K$ Ridiculous. Why give away 50k to a distributor? I made that mistake on my first film and will never do it again. Why do you think producers live in beverly hills and drive bmw's? Because they scam indie filmmakers. Film distribution is legal larceny and it would take a hell of a lot for me to EVER get in bed with another distributor in my lifetime.

John Borowski

Is Denise a plant for Adler? Who knows...

John Borowski

We need to call out these scammer distributors ands share our experiences with others. I call out all these motherfuckers when they contact me and I see their scam a mile away. If they cannot make the effort to call me or send me an email that is not a blanket email, then I don't waste my time. It is not my first rodeo. They are all scared becuase they know that we can now upload to Amazon Prime directly and deal with smaller aggregators to have our films on streaming sites very easily. The old days of the evil empire of distribution are over and if they want our films, they really need to change their approach and woo us the way we should be. Call us, send a personal email, take us to dinner, fly us out to meet them, etc. Bullshit days are over.

Denise Channing

Suggesting I'm a plant for Adler is just stupid. I haven't seen how things are going to go with them yet. I came on this thread to answer the OP with what experience I've had of them so far and certainly haven't sung unending praises, though I still think they've got the foreign sales worked out.

One thing I'll say to anyone reading this thread and wondering what advice is good or bad, check the IMDB page for anyone giving advice. Have you heard of any of their films?

You won't have heard of mine of course because I'm still working on putting the first one into shape to sell. But then I don't pontificate, I'm sharing what I've experienced so far with other amateurs.

Christopher McDonell

And we thank you for it, Denise. John was out of line making that unwarranted accusation.

It's difficult critiquing distributors on a public forum knowing they could be reading what people are saying. I guess the best way to evaluate them is based on their track record, and of course, everyone's needs are different. I too had issues with Adler's release form. It's 5 pgs, very heavy handed and one-sided.

Denise Channing

Some of the information you find on discussions like this can be useful, but a lot can be way off base. Anyone new to a business should check out any advice for themselves rather than take something said by a random person as gospel.

This article I found interesting https://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/basics-of-film-distribution/

Searching for an example of a big studio contract so a couple of people might appreciate how standard what I got actually is. When you really look at the deliverables list, it's audio and visual files plus advertising materials. How is anyone going to sell a film without these? True that a big studio would probably provide things like subtitles and maybe even make the trailers themselves, but they still need the film files to sell. Things like non-text files are specific to foreign distribution, which is much of what Adler focuses on. It's what I was looking into at the time they contacted me.

I've had the advantage of extensive experience in the book publishing market. The pitfalls are very similar.

1. Does a distributor/publisher ask for money to cover some reasonable sounding charges? If so run a mile, it's a scam.

2. How does what they ask for compare to large, known companies?

3. Where are they making their money from?

As most of these small distributors make their money from selling the films, they have a vested interest in doing what they say. The one thing to watch for has been brought up by a couple of people; do they sell it and absorb all the profits? I will be paying close attention to that when I get to that point in the process. But in my original stalk of them, I did find one producer on IMDB who went with them, then tried someone else, then went back to Adler. What this suggests to me is that he might have thought he could do better with someone else, but on his third film decided his better interests were back with them.

In any case, the OP for this thread decided to go another route. I'd love to hear how it works out.

Owen Ratliff

You need to run as fast as you can from Adler. My friend was signed to Adler and when I read her distribution contract, I told her to get out of it ASAP!

Jose Antonio Perez

Hello.

I have to say, about Adler & Entertainment, they have sing with Amazon about my movie.

You can see there. It´s a movie in a real one long take, shot in April 2014.

https://www.amazon.com/1-2-Hours-Jennifer-Landa/dp/B0784ZS8WN/ref=sr_1_1...

Jose Antonio Perez

Soon I will provide the statement about both movies I signed with them, and well... I will know about my decision, if it was right or wrong! Anyone here who had signed with them and has his/her movie in Amazon prime like me??

Denise Channing

Hopefully soon. Still waiting to hear back from QC.

Jose Antonio Perez

Denise, what is the name of your movie? Could you repeat in the post?did Adler upload your movie in any platform as Amazon or Netflix? Soon I’m gonna write in the post about my experience with Adler.

Mr Robot

My Update: I found it better to just deal directly with Amazon for CD/streaming sales AND VOD. All the QC was done by Amazon themselves. No cost to me for anything (except $48 per year for my websites: http://necosbasement.com/watch-online/ and http://www.frankandflo.com/watch-online/

John Borowski

Mr Robot, what do you mean deal directly with Amazon? Do you get a better royalty?

Mr Robot

John Borowski, dealing directly with Amazon the commission WAS .15 per hour viewed and we were actually making some profit, but NOW it is .06 per hour and our profit will drop 60%. Here is a link: http://www.indiewire.com/2018/02/amazon-video-direct-lowers-royalty-rate...

Jose Antonio Perez

Well... I revived and email from Amazon vídeo direct months ago, but it was after I signed with ADLER&AE, and that’s why I wrote in the post “ I will write if my decision was right or wrong”... I feel not so happy because I knew the percent to indie filmmaker, but I thought the deal with a distribution company was different, so I’m waiting for the statement to write in the post.

Marcus D. Spencer
Jose Antonio Perez

I will see it Marcus!

John Borowski

Yeas I know, my films are on Amazon Prime. It is a very difficult time for indies, now more than ever. Forget about Netflix. Amazon cut their royalties. Does anyone have any recommendations to a decent, respectable distributor? All of my experiences with distributors in the last 15 years have been bad.

Denise Channing

Jose, the film is called Old Blood. They have it listed in their catalogue but waiting for QC result before they offer it to any US companies and I'm just finishing up subtitles for foreign distribution now.

Johnny K. Wu

Just finished my 5th feature and this one, a bit different from my comfort zone lol: a martial arts comedy musical. So I've decided to continue going with my sales agent, he's been representing 3 of my films and I've gotten $ from him. It seems now most are heading to digital medium and he does have a tie-in into netflix/amazon as well.

Anyone interested to have him look/represent you just let me know via message, he's always looking for films. Great guy to work with.

John Borowski

Johnny, Here's the deal: Netflix is no longer acquiring small films. I have celebs in my film and they are not accepting films which have grossed under 10 million. This is directly from Netflix. Not much to be made on Amazon at .06 cents per hour. What is the name of your sales rep? Surprised you made money. The sales rep on my first film made 50K and I made nothing.

Jose Antonio Perez

John, did you mean, your represent get 50K and you nothing? How was that? I think all of us are wrong, of course we made movies because we love it but we have to make movies to get any money, at least to make another movie! This is a difficult decision to make about distribution company, and of course we accept any advice about it! If I have nothing from my movie, of course I would not sign for my next movie.

Christopher McDonell

This is really turning into a discussion about methods of distribution. Unfortunately it's all in the Adler thread. But it would certainly be helpful to know what your budgets were going in and how your films were financed.

Marcus D. Spencer

I have produced 17 films and I currently have 16 of them in stores (Walmart, Target, Best Buy, Hulu, Amazon and more). NOTHING has made it to Netflix tho.

I've made films for as low as 10k and I've made money. Films shouldn't come to Amazon or Hulu until after they have made it to stores.

Stores make you the most money

Denise Channing

Christopher, mine was financed with cake. ;) And of course deferred payments. Final budget is around 48k.

Christopher McDonell

"Stores" make you the most money? What about theatrical release, premium TV, free TV, then VOD? I guess if you're working with a micro-budget, then you're satisfied to go straight to VOD where .06 cents/hr can turn a profit. I need to raise $50K just to finalize my film (colour correction, sound design, score composer, legal, insurance, marketing etc).

Christopher McDonell

Good for you, Denise! Get it made however you can. I too raised early financing by selling masala spices.

Marcus D. Spencer

Yes, 'stores' (Walmart, target, Best Buy and others...) Walmart may buy 10,000 units at $4/a piece (very low amount)... well that's $40,000 from just one store. Each store does the same thing. After it's in stores for a few months then it goes to VOD and TV.

This is my method at least.

Mr Robot

Marcus, how are you getting your movies into "Stores". Who is doing the selling?

John Borowski

I can tell you that no Walmart in this world is going to order 10,000 units of an indie film for one store. Funny joke though.

Marcus D. Spencer

It's not one location... lol 10,000 units is very small amount but that's nationwide. We can see John has never had a distributor lol

John Borowski

I have been in the business 20 years and my films have been distributed internationally. Being in the business this long, I know there are bullshitters and liars out there, and a lot of wanna be's. You said it yourself "$40,000 from just one store". What about returns? I really don't think Best Buy is going to keep $10,000 units of Dead End Demon next to a Disney film. Walmart might, it seems the kind of product Walmart shoppers would buy, who knows, but with those kind of numbers, even Hollywood would be lucky to match in these days of streaming.

Bradley Pontecore

I also want to know how to sell my film to brick and mortar stores like Best Buy and Wall Mart with direct deals. Marcus, please let us in on how you do this.

Since I have PR and a built in audience, I am going to get every dollar I can. I'll put it on vimeo and sell it off our website. Not until I get everything, will I pay $1500 to get it on itunes and amazon. And then, I'm not sure that's money well spent, because right now on Amazon I'd have to get about 25k views to break even. Seems dumb to me.

Bradley Pontecore

No big store advice? What about just Target? I hate Walmart aanyway.

Marcus D. Spencer

"Dead End Deomon" would be next to "Get Out" and other horror titles. 10,000 units doesn't even constitute 2 units per store in the US. You're playing write John?? Lol

Marcus D. Spencer

I have produced 17 films since 2010 and have 16 of them currently in stores (Walmart, Target, Best Buy, Hulu, Amazon and more). The only way I was able to do it was to find a good distributor. I currently work with SONY and UNIVERSAL. They take care of the artwork as well (which is very important).

I've worked with other distributors in the past but didn't see a return or very little. Now I'm seeing nice returns. I've made my money back and then some on a few. A few of them I don't think I'll ever make money

Ryan McCoy

Is it just me, or does anyone else see the trend of how and where feature lengths films will be distributed in the future? Brick and mortar stores?? Are you all MAD??? I’m just wondering if anyone else in the “indy” film word is event thinking about innovation in distribution, or if you’re all just continuing to chase the Dragon’s tail? Super curious to find out. Best of luck to us all!

Michael Horn

Doing documentary on business practices of Adler & Associates Entertainment. Seeking more interviews, pro and con.

I’ve already been threatened by Marie Adler and Mark Belasco for doing this, told my films "will be locked up in lawsuits".

Please also contact privately: pr@theyfly.com

Chris Toussaint

UPDATE on documentary “Deception on Demand". Did we just catch Hollywood film distributor Adler & Associates in bookkeeping scam, fraud, retaliation? Is that why Adler herself threatened - in writing:

"All sales are on hold including BTS*, DVD deal, VOD localization, and translations. The film will be locked up in lawsuits...Please let all buyers know we are going to litigation and all deals are off the table.”**

They have DECLINED to be interviewed for this film.

Do you have a distribution horror story to share? Contact us - movie@breakingthesilencemovie.com

*Network interested in our award-winning film "Breaking the Silence" goo.gl/b6y2wm www.breakingthesilencemovie.com

**Documents, emails, etc., will be shown in the film.

Denise Channing

Amazon Prime is looking for Horror films that aren't too scary for European and Asian countries. They're putting mine forward for that. They've got a contract for more countries than most distributors can get to on Amazon Prime. I'm just working on some German subtitles now.

Denise Channing

Adler is my distributor, hence my participation in this thread.

Michael Horn

We are just days away from the release of Deception on Demand, where you will find out the real facts about how Adler and her company "distribute" films...as well as the extreme lengths Marie Adler has gone to in order to prevent this film from being seen.

You'll find out what high-profile L.A. law firm she hired to threaten, harass, intimidate me and try to silence me. But, as with my film Breaking the Silence - the showing of which she SABOTAGED at PBS! - the truth is coming out.

Stay tuned.

Michael Horn

Deception on Demand

In this exposé you’ll learn how Marie Adler & Associates:

Has “the WORST contracts” in the industry according to lawyers!

Charges filmmakers for UNSUBSTANTIATED expenses!

Diverts filmmakers’ income to…THEMSELVES!

Sells filmmakers their DVDs that they’re…FORBIDDEN to sell!

Claim EP credits to 200+ films…including YOURS!

Will sue or SABOTAGE your film if you confront them!

Charges up to $65,000 PLUS royalties for what you can do for…FREE!

…and much more!

While I provided Marie Adler and her associates with the questions and claims raised in this exposé, and invited them to answer and/or rebut them, they DECLINED to be interviewed for…

Deception on Demand

Coming soon!

Michael Horn

Deception on Demand...it's coming in a few days:

Mr Robot

Michael Horn: are you going to release this through Adler?

Michael Horn

Mr Robot, somehow I don't think they will want to help promote this one!

Mr Robot

Well, I figuratively can not wait to see it!!!

Michael Horn

Ah, patience my friends. You won't be disappointed.

Michael Horn

The wait is over:

DECEPTION ON DEMAND

https://theyflyblog.com/?p=6761

Exposing the questionable business practices of Marie Adler & Associates

Johnny K. Wu

Hmm. The link to YouTube doesn’t work.

Denise Channing

I wonder why Michael doesn't just tell us what his beef is with Adler. Making a film about it comes over as obsessive.

Michael Horn

Sorry for the glitch, it's working now.

Denise, you can find out quite clearly when you watch the free film. BTW - as I also told Adler when I tried to negotiate with them - I'm a researcher and a...documentary filmmaker. As they say, it's what I do.

Michael Horn

And perhaps there will be some useful information in there for you.

Michael Horn

To All Concerned,

Since posting DECPETION ON DEMAND (https://youtu.be/xQyH9KPIvk0) I’ve received emails from numerous filmmakers who’ve had the…SAME scam run on them by Marie Adler & Associates. This includes phony, unsubstantiated, “expenses” - in the tens of thousands of dollars - never received revenues, all sorts of other misrepresentations, and overt THREATS that they’ll be sued by her, or have to sue her, in order to get their films back.

In the meantime, she has continued to send emails with completely inaccurate, clearly defamatory information against me and other filmmakers to her clients, in addition to posting them under false names on my YT channel, etc.

This may be both inconvenient and uncomfortable information to see on this forum but this IS a filmmaker forum, dealing with ALL sorts of issues pertaining to filmmakers and this industry. This is also one of the first places that I started to post about my film exposing these questionable business practices.

I will remind people that the #MeToo movement started with one whistleblower, then another, and another, etc. I will also point out that Marie Adler is a member of this forum and she certainly has the opportunity to respond here…even though she and her accomplices DECLINED to be interviewed for my film, despite numerous invitations, being provided in advance with the iissues and questions, etc.

Instead, she hired a high-powered law firm to try to threaten, harass and intimidate me with a TRO, based on a completely fabricated claim that I was “threatening” her and her two, full-grown, adult, male accomplices.

As I said, while this may be an uncomfortable topic for discussion here, it’s quite real. And you can expect to hear more about it in the coming days and weeks as other actions are taken against this company.

Michael Horn

DECEPTION ON DEMAND: UPDATE for the Stage32 community.

I’m pleased to announce that our film now has over 1,800 views online - and has just been accepted in a Hollywood film festival!

We’re very happy that now an even broader audience will know about the very questionable business practices of Marie Adler & Associates.

Unfortunately though, Marie Adler recently posted a desperate, shamelessly dishonest attempt to steal my identity, threaten and defame me… and she went so far as to taunt my daughter about her mother’s death and falsely imply that I’m being sought by a Private Investigator to be “brought into court”.

(https://theyflyblog.com/2018/09/22/if-you-cant-beat-them-promote-them/)

Michael Horn

UPDATE: Adler has now forced YouTube to take down our film based on "copyright infringement" claims. While I've requested the specific information from them, I think this speaks to the true character, honesty, etc., of this company.

I will again state that they were invited present their rebuttals, comments, etc., in this film - and were even provided with he specific questions and issues - but DECLINED.

Christopher McDonell

I don't like the direction this thread has taken. Now it's both a beat on Adler thread and an advertising page for someone's beat on Adler documentary.

Michael Horn

I -and a good number of other filmmakers - don't like that we've been treated in such way as to necessitate standing up to this company publicly. I tried privately for over two years. the documentary is free and it only exists because I couldn't be extorted into silence by Adler and her attorneys...at the cost of not getting my films back.

Do you like it any better now or is this a case of it not being your problem so...?

Thom Butler

Michael, is there anywhere to view this film now?

Michael Horn

Hi Thom, We will soon have it on some other platforms but in the meantime I can also transfer it to you via Google drive, if you want to provide me with your email. We've also been especially busy now submitting to a whole host of festivals. The irony here is that Adler illegally posted our film on YT WITHOUT any objections to the content. So their desperation is not only palpable, it's laughable.

Alan M. Cossettini

Please can I also receive a screener? Knowing how Adler operates is pretty interesting, thanx for your work amf@amfstudios.com

Denise Channing

Michael, I invited you many messages ago to share with us what your argument with Adler is. So far you've ignored that and just keep saying 'watch the film' which never seems to be available. Since you've already spammed my business email with this (really impressed that you're 75 and your daughter is 10), by all means, send me a screener of the film at goblinfilmsltd@gmail.com

I would, however, ask that you do not spam me beyond that. So far my experience with Adler has been very positive and my film is going to be on Amazon Prime in many countries not usually available to self-distributors, who can access 5. Whether I make money is still to be seen.

One important question, does your expose' compare Adler's methods with other small distributors? So far most of what you've cited was in my contract so I'm still wondering what your actual argument with them is.

Michael Horn

Hi Alan & Denise,

DECEPTION ON DEMAND is now available here: https://www.real.video/5840108522001 - we'll see if Adler tries to strong arm them to take it down too.

I'll let the film present my perspective and I'm glad to answer/address any questions.

But a couple of comments (other than that my daughter isn't 10, thank you though!).

A&AE were presented with a treatment of this film, including specific points raised in in it, before it was made and, of course, I invited them to present their side of the story. All of this was AFTER I had tried to negotiate with them to settle the matter, which Adler referred to as "extortion".

As someone who’s been following this wrote me, "It makes YT look kind of 'funny' that your film will be shown in a Hollywood film festival and not on YT. " Adler also forced YT to remove two other videos that had nothing and no one in them but me for a few minutes in each. She claimed "copyright infringement" on those too.

I replied to Adler to provide the specific things that she claims infringe her copyrights, with time codes, etc. So far she hasn't but, in all fairness, I told her to take her time because I'll be busy contacting all of the filmmakers, producers, festival, etc., to update them...and I'll look out that I don't hit you up again, Denise!

BTW, I've informed Roger Sampson that he may not be doing the filmmakers participating in his festival (https://filmfreeway.com/FIFF2018) such a big "favor" by offering them a potential association with A&AE.

One other thing, don't you think it's just a bit...odd that Adler doesn't provide refer to all the filmmakers who are happy and prosperous with their relationship and services? All that I've received are people who are anything but happy, who've been threatened, locked up in long/bad deals.

But do watch for yourselves and feel free to comment. Even though Marie Adler doesn't like the concept, freedom of speech is still allowed.

Jose Antonio Perez

Hello to all forum participants.Michael Horn Denise Channing Alan M. Cossettini Thom Butler Christopher McDonell Johnny K. Wu Mr Robot Connor Williams Christopher McDonell Chris McColl Chris Toussaint Marcus D. Spencer Bradley Pontecore

Some time ago I commented here about Adler. Well, time has passed and I do not want saying any bad talking about Adler, just in case there is any point in our agreement about that. So I'm just going to say one thing. I have never received $ 1 from Adler

I HAVE SIGNED 2 MOVIES WITH ADLER, MY THIRD MOVIE, MY FOURTH MOVIE ... ETC. I will not sign with Adler.

I believe that this is enough for you to understand.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5137294/?ref_=nv_sr_1

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTA2ODk5NjIyODleQTJeQWpwZ15BbWU4...

Jose Antonio Perez

This is one of my movies

Alan M. Cossettini

Michael Horn Thanx you for this, your film provides great information. Great job.

Michael Horn

You're welcome Alan, I do hope it will be useful to filmmakers.

Jack Binder

As I recall Marie has been around for a long time in the business and speaks at many industry events. Never worked with her but appears they have a large library which both speak to success one would think. Nothing to report. Have never heard negatively that I can remember.

Michael Horn

If you do an online search you may be surprised at how little info exists about her and A&AE, other than from them. What "industry events" has she spoken at?

As for their "large library", how many of these (200+) films have had theatrical distribution, how many have you ever even heard of because of A&AE's "promotional" efforts, how many of the filmmakers have made ANY money from having their films tied up in 10+ year contracts, how many endorsements has A&AE provided - or has anyone seen - from filmmakers?

I have documented everything in my film and I continue to hear from filmmakers who simply want out of their similarly ridiculous contracts, many of whom have been threatened with lawsuits for attempting to get out.

One has to seriously consider the possibility that not only DOESN'T it cost up to...$65,,000 (plus 30% royalties) to put a film on Amazon, but also that the evidence appears to show that whatever money these films may earn from Amazon, etc., may well ONLY be ending up in A&AE's pockets, which they try to justify with absolutely imaginary - and very huge - "marketing expenses" - for which they can't provide ANY substantiation.

Maybe a little bit of house cleaning is in order from those who host this site...or it may appear to be a tacit endorsement of a company with HIGHLY questionable business practices, to say the least.

Denise Channing

I did two thorough online searches before signing with them and didn't find anything negative. There were a couple of articles about them as up and coming. I also looked at all of their IMDB credits and found one who went with them for a first film, someone else for the second film, then back to Adler for their third, which suggests they had a better deal with Adler than the other distributor.

Why won't you answer questions Michael?

Outstanding is;

1. What's your actual argument with Adler.

2. Do you do comparisons with other small distributors in your film?

So far your communication has been very one sided.

Denise Channing

https://www.real.video/5840108522001 = "No video has been loaded, error code"

Denise Channing

You've offered screeners and I gave my email requesting one. Haven't received anything yet.

Michael Horn

Denise, I just tried the link and it's working: https://www.real.video/5840108522001

Also, I will have more to say about this a bit later. Considering that this thread goes back a couple of years, I think it's time we pulled the gloves off here. More to follow.

Danny Mac

I can watch the video, your computer might need updating with the latest video players Denise. I can sum up the video for you. Adler takes on films, any films, they don't care. You say yes and sign the contract and they have your film. They dump it on VOD platforms, claim thousands of pounds in marketing expenses, that you've agreed to in your contract. None of that money is spent promoting your film. They will release your film on Amazon Prime (which you can easily do yourself) and collect what little revenue it makes. When you realise this, you ask Adler for an explanation of where the marketing expenses were spent and you won't get any breakdown of the tens of thousand dollars spent. Just an income of your film from Amazon and x amount spent on "marketing". You then realise whatever little you've earnt, you will always be in arrears to Adler. If you want your film back, tough, you owe us $10,000 we've spent. If you rock the boat, they take your film down from Amazon and you as a filmmaker can't get the film you've spent years making seen. People don't come forward, because they don't want to lose their film and what little exposure it can now get on Amazon. Michael wanted to find out if this was true in the film and not one person has said they made money from Adler, the only people who came forward are the ones who said the above scenario happened to them. If the above scenario is not true, why wouldn't Adler come forward and say we have made a profit for all these people, we've just been unlucky in selling your film. Michael gave them the chance to speak in the film and deny any of the above accusations and they refused. I would say it sounds to me like a scam and Adler is running a very simple numbers operation, collect as many films as possible, put them on VOD and collect all the profit. If you have enough films, it becomes lucrative. If this isn't the case, I would like to see a filmmaker come forward who has made a profit. You can be sure that everyone who has signed with Adler has read this thread. It's the third thing that comes up when you google Adler. If what Michael is claiming is not true, then it would be in Adlers best interest to defend themselves and prove they do sell films and make a profit for filmmakers.

Michael Horn

As most people know by now, the #MeToo movement has, in a short period of time, resulted in identifying, removing and punishing a number of predators, mainly in the movie and entertainment industry. Once identified, they are no longer welcome in these communities and even in the greater community of people.

My recent film, DECEPTION ON DEMAND, exposes the very questionable business practices of Marie Adler and her accomplices. Subsequent to the film coming out, there have been more egregious, defamatory actions taken against me by these same people.

This includes identity theft, by Marie Adler, whereby she created a fake YouTube account in my name, and ILLEGALLY posted my film, along with untrue, defamatory comments about me and going so far as to publish hurtful comments directed to my daughter about...the death of her mother.

Then, after I had YouTube take this illegal, falsified site down, Marie Adler filed false infringement of copyright claims with YouTube about my film and two videos on my channel. The first thing to note is that this is the same film that she attempted to it illegally post and maintain in her false account. Marie Adler apparently had no trouble with the legitimacy of the content of the film at that time.

However, she has been unable to substantiate copyright infringement on my film and, regarding my two videos, they were both very short and included ONLY me speaking, with NO infringed material. One was titled “What Is Marie Adler Trying to Hide?" And the other titled "Why Are OJ's Lawyers after Me?"

So - for now - Marie Adler CONNED… YouTube. Worry not, in time not only will all of this to be rectified but the doors will also be closing at A&AE.

Now, for some information that may be of direct interest to some here. For instance. Denise has been working long and hard on her film, which she has apparently signed over to Adler. So, I would ask Denise, and anyone else here who has a contract with Adler, to look at the clause that pertains to the so-called “Audit” fees. Most of the A&AE contracts that I am aware of have this fee listed at about $5,900. And, if you inquired about that fee, you probably got a bit of double-talk that neglected to include the following.

If you think this is a fee that pays for your audit of their books, you are sadly mistaken. In fact, if you think that this is a fee that does anything but ultimately go in A&AE's pockets for NO services that have ever been substantiated, then perhaps you have been…slightly misled. Please remember that, so far, the only so-called “distribution" of films appears to be on Amazon, for which there are actually no charges. Not only that, but Amazon reports the amount of the earnings and you're not going to be bothering to try to audit them, certainly.

As I similarly explained in my film, you can indeed buy DVDs of your own film from Adler – if they ever actually make any – however, you are forbidden to sell them!

I'm going to leave all of that for the moment to let you know that I have sent two emails to a man named Roger Sampson, in which I informed him of these issues, and sent him a link to the film as well. I did that because he's advertising his film festival (https://filmfreeway.com/FIFF2018) in which he has partnered with Adler and advertises that certain lucky filmmakers will have the dubious pleasure of being offered contracts by Adler. I politely suggested to him that he may want to include some of my information to the contrary, if for no other reason than to protect himself from ultimately being accused of any kind of profiteering at the filmmakers' expense.

While Marie Adler claimed copyright infringement pertaining to my film, at no time up to the present have any issues been raised pertaining to the factual accuracy of the information I include therein. And, so far at least, among all of the threats, harassment, etc., I haven't yet been sued for defamation. So perhaps it's time that this forum explores the almost 30 page long contract from Adler, as the perfect example of what filmmakers should carefully avoid. Further, perhaps this forum should also decide if the points raised in my film are accurate, which of course should include any factual rebuttal by Adler, as well as any other people who wish to contradict what I have claimed.

I noticed that this forum offers many different types of what appear to be seminars, trainings, advice, etc. I opened this comment of mine pointing out that there are predators in society, people who knowingly and willingly take advantage of, and exploit, others for their own profit.

After careful examination of the points raised here, included in my film and available for examination in Adler's contracts, should it appear that my concerns are correct and justified, I highly suggest emulating what the #MeToo movement has done. And that is to identify, isolate and expel any predators who may be lurking on this forum.

I am also inviting any filmmakers with problematic contracts with Adler to contact me so that I may assist them to be able to have their films returned to them when this company is shut down.

Michael Horn

I posted my above comment without seeing Danny Mac's absolutely accurate comments. Perfectly, succinctly explained. So, let me reiterate my offer to concerned filmmakers to assist them to be in the position to get their films back when this company goes under. Suffice it to say that there is more going on than conducting conversations on forums, or even emailing filmmakers, etc.

My direct email: pr@theyfly.com

P.S. What I am doing is absolutely free to you to participate in, no fees, charges, percentages, etc.

Michael Horn

More Filmmakers Join Against Marie Adler Scam

https://theyflyblog.com/?p=6873

How we conduct ourselves throughout our ordeals contributes to our character development

Michael Horn

Hi David,

I'm glad to reply. I don't know if you're actually accusing me of lying but I didn't and I haven't. Of course I've got a lot more correspondence between me and Adler. And of course neither Adler nor her aggressive, high-priced lawyers have shown that I have lied either.

But you're incorrect as well, I show a number of emails from Adler...including all the defamatory ones from Marie Adler herself. And their contract is...their contract. Nothing changed, or "lied" about there either.

Perhaps you've noticed the comments by some other people here that echo my own concerns and situation. Those are the ones made...publicly.

As for the #MeToo movement, maybe you don't notice but I did point out that in Breaking the Silence, the film my daughter and I made - in 2009, years BEFORE the movement - we documented five young women telling their various stories about abuse, rape, incest, abandonment, neglect, addiction, etc., etc.

And perhaps you didn't notice that Adler, in her enraged desire to retaliate for having her little game exposed, threatened to sabotage all DVD and distribution, deals for my films, including the potential showing of BtS on PBS, and to tie me and my films up in litigation, etc.

She then went ahead and did indeed sabotage the opportunity by LYING to PBS, thereby silencing these women again. Pretty...vicious. Or to use your word, scummy.

Then she removed the films from Amazon (all of that is called tortious interference, among other things).

Oh yeah, remember, I invited them to be interviewed to rebut all the claims, etc., and I even sent them a treatment of the film AND some of the questions and issues I would, and did, raise.

As for "scummy", being "ashamed", "same standards", I think you're directing your disdain at the...WRONG person. And pardon me for having to point it out, but this bogus company squandered and deliberately destroyed MY opportunities and diverted MY income (and possibly the income of a whole lot of other filmmakers).

As for arbitration, well, apart from the fact that Adler breached the contract all over the place, and I'd already seen that she was trying to extort my silence via her law firm, I saw no reason to spend the money. Most likely, I'd never have gotten to tell my story publicly...which has so far been at the EXPENSE of having my own films back.

You know, before I made the film I did tell A&AE that, well, I’m a DOCUMENTARY filmmaker and I’m pissed…and that was AFTER I had sent them a proposed negotiation to settle our dispute, which they labeled “extortion”.

As for the TRO, I think that’s been shown in the film to be a rather disingenuous bit of intimidation, harassment, threatening, etc. I don’t know if you noticed but Adler’s two adult accomplices, Jeremy Lunt and aspiring on-screen gangster Mark Belasco, tried to get “protection” from lovable little ol’ me but were denied by the judge.

I also withheld a bit in the film on Adler. While I pointed out all her absolutely bogus EP credits, I didn’t mention that this was a form of what in the military is referred to as “Stolen Valor”, claiming, and trying to PROFIT from, accomplishments one didn’t have.

Speaking of which, since you seem to be concerned about the truth, I haven’t been able to find a SINGLE bit of information online about Adler’s supposed multi-billion dollar lending company, that also supposedly had offices in 30 states, etc. I thought there’d at least be…something online about it.

So, as for what your documentary teacher told you about, the need "to lie to tell a greater truth", perhaps they were speaking more about…themselves. And perhaps Alder would’ve preferred that your teacher would've made the documentary, where those “skills" could’ve served Adler far better than…the truth.

Anyway, if you have any more questions, comments, challenges, I’ll do my best to answer them…just like A&AE are going to HAVE to answer for quite a few things, to a good number of people.

And not all of them are their clients.

Just sayin’.

Lorraine Davis

This is ridiculous. I decided to come to this website and create an account because one of my teachers in film school was using this post as an example of why distributors don't want to deal with indie filmmakers. It just takes a couple of bad apples (in this case, 6 apples) to spoil the bunch. My first question: why people that have never had a distribution deal, ask questions between each other about the film industry? You clearly will never know the answer unless you buy a film book or go to a film school. Please, buy a distribution book! Your expertise needs it. Just questioning about marketing fees is even more ridiculous! You don't need a business degree to understand that you need marketing (and in this case, MONEY) to exploit your movie. And for the man using the hashtag of the MeToo movement to try to sell yourself and your films, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Michael Horn

Hi Lorraine,

I understand that, "I'm a film student, that currently is trying to launch her career in the film industry.”

Your inexperience - and perhaps that of your teacher - are glaringly apparent. As are your poor comprehension skills.

Pleas note that your incorrect statement about me, that I’m “try(ing) to sell yourself and your films”, is factually incorrect. First, as I pointed out but you apparently failed to notice, my film about what in essence has now become a “movement”, Breaking the Silence, was produced in 2009, perhaps when you were in grade school.

Adler liked the film enough to do so, however, but only on Amazon…for which there are NO marketing expenses. And when pressed to produce them…she couldn’t and WOULDN’T. And, novel creature that she is, she trashed the film and effectively silenced the women's voices again when I had the bad taste to rain on her little, all-about-me parade.

I haven’t been selling anything here, in case you also didn’t notice. And I’m certainly not applying for a job here. In fact, now that you mention it, I’m helping other filmmakers in their efforts to get their property (films, rights, hard drives) back from Adler. And I’m doing it on my own time and my own dime, i.e..as in...for FREE.

Adler actually isn’t a “distributor”, unless everyone, including kids, who put their films up on Amazon are also. And, of course, they - like Adler - can do it for free.

But you are correct that to really and HONESTLY exploit a film, you DO need money. Perhaps you didn’t actually watch my film where two filmmakers provided information about how Adler asks THEM for money ("shakes them down", as one put it)…while diverting any and every penny that comes in to themselves. Where are all the filmmakers who've actually made...ANY money from this company?

I do appreciate your raising these points, since it will hopefully help clarify the situation and help further warn and inform people about the various rip-offs and con artists lurking about.

Please feel free to let me know if you have any more questions, challenges, etc.

BTW, do…you know anything about Marie Adler’s supposed career as a major financial powerhouse?

Thanks,

MH

P.S. I'll be glad to help your teacher get informed on what REALLY can happen in the film business.

Danny Mac

Lorraine, I'm guessing you are Marie? Marie, how many filmmakers have you made money for? Simple question. I reckon someone on here would say "hey, they made me money", if you had. I'm really not saying this to attack you, I would genuinley like to know if you've made money for any filmmakers. You could end the debate with yes. I've made money for these films. Write the name of the films down and say "I'm proud of the success I've had with these films, in this difficult market. Some films have failed, but not for want of trying."

Danny Mac

Also Marie, don't attack people who ask questions on forums ( why people that have never had a distribution deal, ask questions between each other about the film industry? ), ignoring the fact you have the grammar of a ten year old, it does seem futile to call the very people you're trying to defend yourself against (the people who use this forum) stupid.

Lorraine Davis

Good try, but no, I'm not Marie. And I believe she doesn't have the time to respond to these silly messages.

And I believe that if you had an attorney, which I believe you don't, they should have to tell you to not do this shit-chat just to call attention. You're just ridiculizing yourself more and more.

Denise Channing

SUMMARY

Thank you David, for voicing much of what I've been observing. This thread started with a legitimate question, has anyone dealt with the company positive or negative. (Yes David, that's a fair question among indies). The OP has since moved on with a different sales agent.

Lots of opinions have stretched this thread into a saga but only three people on it have actually dealt with Adler; myself, Jose and Michael. Michael is obviously displeased with his experience to the point that he's gone obsessive and even made a film about it, but doesn't bring in comparisons to other distributors. None of them work for free, large or small. Jose said a long time back that he hadn't passed quality control and when asked if he was fixing what was wrong, never said. He more recently said he made no money and he won't go with Adler again.

NOTE: QUALITY CONTROL IS DONE BY A THIRD PARTY COMPANY AND IS NOT UNDER THE CONTROL OF ADLER.

I'm still dealing with the company and satisfied with my dealings, but the jury is still out on whether I'll make any money. The only reason I haven't deleted this thread from my notifications is that several people wanted to know the eventual result.

Michael, I think you've said your piece now and you've given your links. I will watch your film, but much of your statements don't add up and the daily rants are just making you look a tit. I suggest leaving people to make their own minds up at this point. I'm not discounting anything, I'm just tired of my inbox getting notifications for the same rant over and over again.

If anyone ELSE has first hand dealings with the company, please do share your experience. We're all here to learn.

Bradley Pontecore

I have also dealt w/ Adler and received an offer that I had looked at by an entertainment lawyer. I also spoke to friends who are filmmakers about the contract and other contracts that they have seen.

Guess what was the unanimous advice?

There was one great thing said in the film that has been overlooked. You can get on Amazon Prime by yourself. If you think getting on the other territories that has Prime, guess what? You have to now get non english subtitles that will cost more than what you'll make. Ever. Prime now at it's new six cents an hour rate, doesn't get you hardly anything, let alone enough to live on or make another film.

Denise, I'm curious about why you have been trying to get your film past Quality Control for two years? If it's because it lacks quality, I'd say Adler is perfect for you. Makes you feel good a company released your film. I understand. I felt great when I got that contract. Super excited. For a moment.

The only way to see if a distributor is worth anything to you is to do something very simple. Go through their library and see if you recognize any. If you do, awesome. If not, bad. If that company has 400 films that you have never heard of, that's really bad.

This is simple math.

Michael Horn

Denise,

I really do understand that you may feel a little uncomfortable reading information that could feel like a punch in the stomach in light of all of the hard work, time, energy and probably money that you've expended on your labor of love.

BTW, you mention QC, and there’s also in some cases Fair Use. Who pays for that? Is it included in the $5,000+, non-sensical “Delivery Fee”, etc.?

I think you’ll find (or have already found) that you pay for everything. That was even the case when Adler asked the filmmakers to make and send them posters for display in their room at Cannes.

You mention “other distributors”. As I said, it’s hard to call Adler a distributor…unless you call anyone who puts their film up on Amazon a distributor, as Bradley is also pointing out. As for comparisons to other REAL distributors, one of the people who contacted me is dealing with a distributor who has a 3 - 4 page contract, not a 30-page, we-get-your-first-born, sign-on-the-dotted-line document.

As for my statements that “don’t add up”, you’re free to post them here, in case other people are interested in the answers.

I was involved in my first film production in 1987, and have made several since then. "Ah ha! Shouldn’t you have known better?”, someone is certain to ask. Well, Denise, I explained some of that in the film but there are somethings I didn't go into, since it's not a full length documentary. so here are a couple of items.

First and foremost, though I've been involved in many different kinds of businesses and ventures, I don't try to take advantage of anyone and sometimes I am a little too trusting. As you will learn in the film, I 'd had one experience, about 10 years ago, with Mark Belasco. At that time he worked for a different company and, contacted me about a new film of mine. To make the story shorter, he offered to distribute it for a $5,000 fee, which my filmmaking partner and I were not interested in. It was apparently one of those companies that overtly tries to get you to pay a fee…and we're all warned about those kinds of companies.

When Belasco contacted me about three years ago, he said he worked for a completely different kind of the company, one that didn't ask for any money, etc. When I saw that the contract had possible deductions of up to $65,000 and more, I expressed my concerns. But then, in a conversation also with Jeremy Lunt, they pointed to page in the contract that showed all these huge fees that different companies in different countries paid to acquire films. They used this to imply that even a few of these deals would have me earning a lot of money and that any deductions they made for their “marketing and promotion” would be insignificant.

They failed of course to add that their own, actual “marketing and promotion” expenses would be...nonexistent.

Christopher McDonell

Oh my goodness, every day, 10 new comments saying the same thing. Filmmakers sharing valuable information, tips and strategies on their experiences with distributors, in this case, Adler, is great. It’s useful. But it’s been awhile since any useful information has been shared here and the thread is now 230+ comments! I met Adler at the AFM 2017. They had one of the busiest offices and I literally had to return about 6 times to get a meeting. People were lined up to see them. They invited me to submit my film but I couldn’t get past the submission form. It’s 5 pages, totally one-sided and very heavy handed. So is Disney’s though. (I’m working for them in Vancouver in such capacity that I know.) Still, it was too great a barrier and I moved on. It was probably around then that I found this thread. I’d say the bottom line is: read the contract and know what you’re getting into. But the fact is, enforcing your rights is a whole other ball of wax. People get screwed over all the time in this industry. Michael, you’ve made your point crystal clear about this company. And maybe it will help some people, maybe not. Every case is different. A good film will sell itself, regardless of its distribution. But every time you post on here you’re also advertising your own film and it’s become akin to spam now. Isn’t there another section on this forum for self-promotion? And Denise has no reason to feel wounded by any snide remarks. She made herself vulnerable by allowing us to journey with her on her distribution experience. Good for her for staying the course and I hope she can be the one who writes in one day and says, “Yes! I just cashed my first cheque and people are now watching my movie in Switzerland!”

Michael Horn

Christopher,

If you think all the comments are saying the same thing, I think you've missed some of the subtleties and important details.

The whole point of making my film was to inform people who wouldn't otherwise know about this situation. It can hardly be considered spam, as I'm not selling anything, I'm giving it away, at my own expense in both experience and money.

BTW, a good film will NOT “sell itself” if it's effectively tied up and hidden from view.

So...IF it's true that a company has been diverting possibly tens of thousands of dollars of filmmakers' earnings directly into their own pockets, IF it's true that they've been scamming and lying to their clients as well, IF it's true that it’s a cynical con game, shameless thievery and fraud… then it's more than simply a discussion about the nature of contracts.

And IF it's true, then there is a thief in our midst - here - that I at least am not reluctant to point out.

I think the fact that I have to point out these important questions speaks loudly to the lack of comprehension of these points.

I am not only a filmmaker, I'm an investigator and researcher with 40 years of experience. I'm a stickler for details, for facts and for asking questions. I also understand that this is a fast-paced, short attention span world. But perhaps my persistence is what has resulted in far more people contacting me about this issue, privately, than are expressing their opinions here.

Denise Channing

Not much time so I'll bullet point this.

Thank you Bradley for your experience looking into the contract. That's certainly relevant.

Don't know where you got two years from. I sent my film to one company who flagged sound issues. I fixed them. Then with Netflix becoming of no value to indie filmmakers, sent it to a cheaper company. Unfortunately I sent the 24fps and it has a slight shake in a couple scenes from the conversion from 25fps. Amazon has their own quality control and I've passed that.

Christopher, thank you for your comments!

Whoever mentioned the cost of subtitles, they can indeed be very expensive. I'm doing my own. After paying for translations for the first couple of languages, I've discovered I can get a decent translation electronically and just have it proof read by a native (I have an extensive network). Cost Free-£20 per language.

Michael, I've watched the first 5 minutes of your film. Have to take it in bites as I'm too busy to sit through 23+ minutes. First impressions: Had to laugh at the intro music, reminded me of those 1930s drug propaganda films. A bit OTT. Lots about how great your two documentary films are, a claim they asked you for $5000. Did they ask you to pay them that? A legitimate distributor will never ask for money to be paid to them. If that's not what happened I suggest you change the wording because they would have you dead to rights on Libel.

Also, there's a clip of this thread. I suggest you enlarge it slightly and move it over so the avatars don't show ASAP. You do NOT have permission to show my photo in your film and putting it in context of people questioning Adler's practices is misleading and potentially Libelous. I won't threaten you with legal action because I don't have finances or time for something nitpicky, but if you're not prepared to change it I WILL become vocal about how misleading your 'evidence' is. Let me be clear: I have no reason to doubt Adler's honesty or integrity and I read my contract and have had no surprises. Please stop spamming me. I'll continue looking at the film when time allows.

Michael Horn

Dear Denise,

While I truly do have compassion for what is undoubtedly a very rude awakening for you, as the saying goes, please don't shoot the messenger here.

If the first five minutes of my film has contributed to your shocking discomfort, perhaps you should forgo the remaining 18.

Now, I’ve already been contacted by filmmakers from FIVE different countries, all of whom have basically the same complaints and concerns, such as being told by Adler that because of thousands, to TENS of thousands, of dollars in (imaginary) “expenses”, they won’t receive ANY money/royalties.

They’re told they'll have to sue Adler to get their film back, or perhaps Adler will be...suing them.

They also are told that Adler’s - non-existent - “legal team will get back to" them, etc. (NOTE: The day after I hired an attorney to look at their contracts, Adler tried to hire the...same attorney. Now they have a very high-priced lawyer but there was no “legal team”, apparently only Mark Belasco playing the part, perhaps in time for Halloween.)

Some filmmakers even receive rambling, PERSONAL, threatening emails, calls and texts at all hours of the day and night...from CEO Adler herself.

The filmmakers are concerned that if they speak up, try to get their films back, etc. that Adler will retaliate, as she did against me, taking their films off Amazon, and holding on to them forever. That is why I have informed them that I will help them GET THEIR FILMS back…and do it for FREE.

As for your threats, in the grand Adler tradition, there is also something called Fair Use. In the film I scrolled the publicly available site here, so getting all upset about your image passing on the screen is slightly out of proportion.

This is a forum about indie filmmaking and the…business thereof. It’s obviously distressed some people to learn that their are some serious pitfalls - and predators - awaiting them once their film is made. In fact, making your film may turn out to be the easy part.

Denise Channing

Michael, which part of "I don't intend to sue you" is a threat?

And please stop wittering on about rude awakenings etc. You haven't brought up anything that I haven't been watching for from day one. Not everyone here is young, fresh film school graduates. I'm nearly your age and sufficiently au fait with contract law that I write my own contracts.

For someone who claims to be a researcher you don't seem to be familiar with copyright law for film. Specifically for Documentaries under U.S, law, to use a clip without permission under fair use a majority of the footage used has to be for historical purposes. Shots of the World Trade Center collapsing for example. I'm not that famous!

Stills are even more draconian. Filmmakers have to be very careful about photos or trademarks that appear in the background of films. If you don't have written permission from the copyright holder, usually the photographer unless they've signed the rights to another party, you're in violation.

By putting my photo into a context that falsely suggests that I am questioning the integrity of Adler, under Libel law you have technically potentially damaged my personal and company reputation in a manner that could affect my profits.

So, Michael, you should be really glad that I don't intend to take any legal action.

However, as the adjustment I've suggested would take less than 5 minutes including sips of coffee, literally two clicks of a mouse, are you telling us that rather than making that effort you prefer to knowingly and deliberately falsify evidence for your documentary?

I will watch the rest of your film, in case you present any new information. I keep an open mind. However as I had two new emails from you today, I've blocked you. I asked for a copy of the film, not correspondence.

Mr Robot

Time for a new thread, this one on "Thomas Schmiit". LOL

Michael Horn

Dear Denise,

Thanks for your ongoing, obtuse comments.

Here’s a suggestion, next time you post on a PUBLIC FORUM…don’t include your name or photo.

Your lectures about Copyright Law, Libel Law, etc., are very nice, and I look forward to seeing your film...on Amazon.

For the record, here’s what I wrote you privately, lest the public be misled:

"Denise,

Out of courtesy to you, and since you’d provided your email address and requested my film, I wrote you privately.

As you’ll see, I’ve now responded to your last post publicly and will only communicate with you further, as necessary, in that manner.

MH"

I also appreciate your (unintended?) irony:

"Michael, which part of 'I don't intend to sue you' is a threat?”

"So, Michael, you should be really glad that I don't intend to take any legal action."

…or perhaps just classic passive-aggressiveness.

Enjoy my film!

P.S. Give Marie best best, I think those sleepless nights trolling her not so happy clients may be taking a toll.

Denise Channing

Michael, what is obtuse about quoting basic copyright law? Google it, you'll find I'm right. Also, uploading my photo to a forum implies consent for the forum website to use it, but that does not extend to anyone else. People have paid thousands of dollars in fines for helping themselves to images from the Internet, even on simple blogs. Here's one example https://www.contentfac.com/copyright-infringement-penalties-are-scary/ there are many more.

Why do you have a problem with this? A simple adjustment won't cost you anything assuming you do your own editing and as I said, it's less than 5 minutes.

Re quoting one of your emails to me above, I answered that one on my previous post. After that you sent me your mailing list email, which was the last straw. This is another area of law you should pay attention to as the relatively recent change in the law could get you in trouble. Not from me, Michael. You're violating laws and a few complaints could cause issues. I don't know the penalties as I haven't had need to look into the exact laws on this but haven't you noticed that every commercial website you log into is making you click ok for subscriptions afresh, including private blogs? It's actually rather annoying.

I don't make the laws, don't shoot the messenger. :P

Michael Horn

Denise,

Try as I did, I couldn’t find an email to you dated after the one I quoted.

Please send it back to me so that I can check the date, etc., and be sure you’re removed from any further ones. It’s possible that you mistakenly received one we sent to the 100s of people who’re being kept updated about all this, internationally.

Please also give me the specific time codes where your image is displayed throughout the film, e.g. 15:33 - 15:45 (https://www.real.video/5840108522001), then at least I can compare it/them.

What I didn’t show - in THIS film - are the over...50, specific, looney, rambling threats, from Adler and Mark “You’ll-never-work-in-this-town-again” Belasco, to numerous filmmakers who’ve TRIED to get their films back from Adler. Of course, everyone will be able to make up their own minds about these threats...in due time. It ain’t purty.

Speaking of purty, Denise, since you’re a good sleuth, do you know if the photo on this page is supposed to be of Adler’s facilities, as it seems to imply:

http://www.adlerandassociatesentertainment.com/contact-us/

The Santa Monica Blvd. mailing address appears to be just a p.o. box. This could make it difficult if, for instance, someone was trying to serve Adler with a lawsuit, or if some "PI's have been paid" to find and bring her into court, etc. Just sayin’.

But everything in due time.

Michael Horn

IMPORTANT UPDATE:

I am going to take the unusual step of publishing one of several emails I received from a filmmaker today..

Of course, I have all of the information, including their name, the names of their films, awards, website, etc. However, since I know that it’s possible for these things to be hoaxed, I am not publishing their personal information.

There are only two possibilities. Both are devastating. The information actually comes from this filmmaker, or it comes from someone wanting us to believe it does…which could be for the purposes of discrediting my efforts, etc. Then the only question would be…who would do this?

So far, however, the information provided by the filmmaker appears to confirm their identity.

Here is one of the emails:

"Hello from XXXXXXXX

I have no idea if you are real or not.

I can only tell the truth.

Adler finished my film career.

They got contracts for 4 of my films at the same time.

Now my movies are at a loss of :-

$69 652 with Adler and that sent an update today saying that forgot to add some costs.

I would definitely not recommend any film maker signing any contract with this company.

'The truth is way stronger than any lies'”

Bradley Pontecore

This could be a movie:

THE CONTRACT

A D List Hollywood scam artist gets what's coming to her when she signs a contract with a mentally ill filmmaker.

Michael, I don't think you're mentally ill. It just makes for a better log line. We could go the Death Wish revenge route, if that's your thing.

Michael Horn

Bradley, whatever boats your float...or something like that.

Michael Horn

RESTORED: DECEPTION ON DEMAND

https://theyflyblog.com/?p=6884

Persevering on the right path until justice is finally done

Michael Horn

Should I be surprised that, so far, no one here (including Denise) has expressed shock and outrage at the filmmaker's claim of an almost...$70,000 LOSS from doing business with Adler...added to the other growing number of claims against these con artists?

Christopher McDonell

If I respond with outrage, are you going to put it in your movie?

Michael Horn

Well, I was hoping for something cynical, trivial and meaningless but you've exceeded my expectorations.

Christopher McDonell

Did I at least get you to crack a smile? ;)

Michael Horn

Sure, why not. Whether we recognize it or not, we're all in this thing called life together.

Denise Channing

Michael, people here don't have time to come and give you attention daily. To answer your questions to me:

I empty my spam folder daily but you just have to remove goblinfilmsltd from your mailing list.

The clip is at 2:55-3:15. I don't know if there are repeats as looking for the times cost me the time I might have used to watch the second 5 minutes.

No one is going to respond to your $70k statement with outrage. Let's save everyone time, shall we?

One person asks for sources, you claim confidentiality.

Another person points out a film can't lose what it hasn't earned and that exceeds Adler's cap, so you throw back some waffle that makes sense to you while everyone else goes away still sure you're just making things up.

Can't believe you've made two more videos about this. Have you considered discussing this obsession with a psychologist? This isn't natural.

Bradley Pontecore

I'm not surprised. If you sign dumb contracts with thieves, they will rob you. Pretty simple.

Michael Horn

Dear Denise,

I think you may be a bit confused.

1. So, I DIDN'T send you an email that you complained about.

2. You didn't notice that YouTube found the copyright infringement claims from Adler invalid. You're free to send yours...once you locate the specific ones.

3. Adler has already ADMITTED to stealing tens of thousands of dollars from filmmakers. Be patient, it will all be further spelled out in due time.

4. It also "isn't natural" when the CEO of a company STEALS the identity of a filmmaker, illegally uploads his film, hurls untrue, utterly false claims at him (using his name!), claims that PIs have been "paid to bring him into court" , attacks his daughter over her mother's death and, of course, it REALLY "isn't natural" for a filmmaker to be defending such a criminal BECAUSE the filmmaker made the mistake of falling for their con. It's called...being in DENIAL.

Have a lovely day.

Michael Horn

Brad,

In Denise's defense (as well as that of others you don't even know about yet) blaming the victims isn't helpful...nor does it excuse the thieves for their crimes.

Bradley Pontecore

What?

Bradley Pontecore

In your defense I like the passion. In Denise's case I like the loyalty. In my case I like the ability to say whatever I want whenever I want to as long as it causes no harm. Good day sir!

Michael Horn

Sure, speak freely! I do think though that when "loyalty" is recognized as "denial" we may expect to see a change in tone, etc.

Bradley Pontecore

There's lots of mental health issues flying around this never-ending thread. I am just honored to be a participant.

Bradley Pontecore

I feel bad for the person who lost 4 films to Adler. I really do in an empathetic way because I am a human and a filmmaker. That sucks. However, I did something it seems that would be step number one in signing a contract. I had a lawyer look at it. An Entertainment Lawyer. To do anything else is sloppy work on the part of the filmmaker. Michael, I liked your short. I feel the same way. Go get em'! I have been attempting to show Denise the error she made since singing with them. And I have spoken to a few other people about similar situations with Adler. Guess, what was the second thing I did after I got a lawyer involved? I looked up Adler on google and found this thread. The red warning signals of stay away went off in my brain. I'm all for you bashing on this company. Please carry on!

Denise Channing

Michael, there is no "denial". I've been on "wait and see" for the whole of this thread. I selected a course of action and am seeing it through. So far I have no concerns.

Denise Channing

As for your list of facetious statements, yes you DID send me an email that I complained about, right here in this thread, then you kept sending them after I asked you to stop, so I blocked you. Which part of this is confusing you?

The rest of your statements are unsubstantiated. I continue to wait and see.

Denise Channing

Ok I've watched the second 5 minutes.

More about how wonderful Michael's documentary films are, followed by complaints about terms that are clear in the contract with no comparison to other company's contracts. I've seen much worse. Then complaint about no theatrical distribution. Come on, look in your local cinemas or as far afield as you like and tell me how many documentaries you see offered. You may find one occasionally. The realm for documentaries is television and most of those are arranged in house.

I asked Jeremy Lunt about theatrical distribution and he said up front they push very few for that. The clause itself is a standard clause you'll see in any contract, covering all areas of potential distribution.

So then some about Marie's EP credit. Yes, that's a little unusual. I call it ego. As for EP 'duties', the EP doesn't have clearly defined duties. It's a courtesy title generally given to someone who either provides money or has a name you want attached to your film in some way. The producer does the work, read any film school textbook to learn that one. I read a lot of them when I started to go into filmmaking.

Then complaint of exclusivity. Again, you'll find that with anyone. Works the same in book publishing (where I have considerably more experience). If a company gets behind your project, they obviously don't want you selling elsewhere and cutting their percentage profits.

Will continue as and when.

Denise Channing

Sorry Michael I missed a question.

"Speaking of purty, Denise, since you’re a good sleuth, do you know if the photo on this page is supposed to be of Adler’s facilities, as it seems to imply:

http://www.adlerandassociatesentertainment.com/contact-us/"

I believe that's a stock photo. If you look at your contract you'll see a mailing address and a physical address. The physical address in Burbank on Google street view shows me office buildings, many to do with film.

Michael Horn

Hi Bradley & Denise,

I’ve heard quite a few other horror stories but when I read that filmmaker’s email it was like a punch in the stomach.

As you know, the terms "con man”, “con artist” and "confidence man", refer to someone who tricks people out of their money and/or valuables. Speaking of con artists, I explained that I’d met Mark Belasco some years previously and that when he contacted me again, on behalf of Adler, he presented himself and the company in a…con-vincing way. I guess he’d has time to “practice”. Well, most predators don’t change their stripes. My bad, as the saying goes.

And the bad of a while lot of other people whose cinematic labors of love, their hopes and dreams, have been dumped on Amazon, who’ve been milked for “expenses” that don’t exist, who can’t get their films back, who’ve been threatened with lawsuits if they try, who’ve had their identity stolen, who've been personally called - and threatened - by Adler at all hours of the day and night.

As someone on the receiving end of some reprehensible, outright fraudulent behavior (as in criminal), etc., it’s not so much about bashing a company. That doesn’t really have any teeth in it, so having found this thread like you did, I’m using it to update and warn others.

The fact is that Adler has brazenly admitted they’ve ripped people off for tons of money. Sometimes it’a bit of a rough world out there.

Of course, Denise isn’t wrong to want to wait and see; whatever she may think about my perspective she, and the rest of us, are responsible for what we choose to do. That doesn’t absolve shameless people from indulging in thievery, harassment, lies and intimidation.

Thanks Denise, while I do have their addresses, I think the photo (looking over the city of night) isn’t of any of them. I wonder if they got permission to use it…and further misrepresent themselves.

Alan M. Cossettini

The picture on Adler's contact page is a house designed by Paul McClean. http://www.mccleandesign.com/ House address is 1822 Marcheeta Place, West Hollywood, and has been sold this year for $16,950,000. https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/1822-Marcheeta-Pl_Los-...

Michael Horn

Thanks Alan. Stripping away the facade on the art of the con.

P.S. Perhaps you could find me something equally impressive to mis-represent Horn Estates?

Alan M. Cossettini

Michael Horn sorry, can you please rephrase the request? English is not my mothertongue, maybe I'm missing something

Michael Horn

Hi Alan,

No problem, I was momentarily overcome by the image of a lace with a $16,950,000 price tag. A company would have to rip off a LOT of filmmakers to buy that. But they can dream. Instead of that, please email me about the podcasts.

Thanks!

Alan M. Cossettini

Mail about Podcasts? Maybe you must have confused me with someone else.

But I think I can speak for everybody involved in this thread, we totally got your point of view, thanx Michael for all the information you provided. If the question was "is it profitable to sign with Adler?" I think we now all have a clear idea about it. Don't make me wrong, again your information and videos were very helpful, thanx for all your research and for sharing your personal experience. But now let's move on, this must be the longest thread so far in Stage 32. :)

Michael Horn

Ooops, sorry, it was someone else who wants to help exposing Adler through indie film-related podcasts.

As for posting info here, if this was the only thread on this forum, I wouldn't post so many details. But it is the thread about Adler and I do update and try to respond to questions, etc.

Trust me, this isn't where I'm actually making my/our case about this.

Thanks.

Danny Mac

I don't even think Adler are trying to sell films at the film markets, they are just there to dupe filmmakers into giving them their films.

Michael Horn

I have no evidence to...contradict that.

Danny Mac

At the filmmakers expense, they have a jolly and rip off other filmmakers.

Gustavo Letelier

Before signing on any sales agent check their business in Cinando or other paid professional network. Check their presence in key film markets.

Michael Horn

Good advice Gustavo, though not everything is as it seems. I'm still trying to find some (ANY) substantiation for Marie Adler's claims of starting American Financial Lending, and doing $38 billion in business, in 42 states, when that company's...never heard of her. It looks like more disinformation as part of the scam, to give it some credibility.

Michael Horn

I think people may now begin to understand that this is not a case of sour grapes by any means but rather an INTERNATIONAL FRAUD that is being exposed.

Kim L Parr McGinnis

I am sorry to say I am starting to think that. For those (like me) that are currently under contract with A&E, I would urge you to ask them pointed questions. I put up with their deflection for far too long... wish we would have been more direct sooner. I wrote an email to our entertainment lawyer this morning asking him how we check the legitimacy of the financials. Making a film was (by the far) the hardest thing we have done in our lives - energy and money-wise. The idea that there are people out there who make it their mission to exploit that hard work is appalling. I will keep you all posted with our process.

Michael Horn

Be prepared for the Marie Adler, it's-all-about-me, passive-aggressive, pity party, which includes calls, emails and texts at all hours of the day and night, alternately threatening, pleading, complimenting, promising, etc.

Please feel free to contact me directly. We have assembled a lot of documentation and it may be useful to you.

Kim L Parr McGinnis

Connor, I don't see what your comment has to do with this thread. It seems like you're looking for a pat on the back and a way to self-promote. Maybe try your Facebook or Twitter account to promote your movie?

Danny Mac

The theft of someones film, is the theft of years of their life. Pretty evil.

Bradley Pontecore

Connor, do you have a paypal email address, so I can just send you money?

Bradley Pontecore

maybe this is why they never make money and charge filmmakers for "marketing fees"? Maybe this is why she gets Exec. Producer Credit? Maybe they are writing off BS charges they have made against failed films. Lots and lots of failed films. Film that are not supposed to succeed.

Also if you can find an investor, they risk nothing on failed films.

http://www.rmafilm.com/section_181.aspx

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/181

Michael Horn

We'll see what they plead when their con is exposed. I think it's also obvious that good films can "fail" if the so-called "distributor" never did, nor ever intended to, actually promote and market their film.

And this is also how con artists prey on indie filmmakers, they hype them about all of the international markets supposedly paying huge fees that they'll exploit their films in...and then pile on the bogus "expenses" for which there is ZERO substantiation.

Bradley Pontecore

I just wonder if they make any govt. cash from the bogus expenses?

Bradley Pontecore

I also meant that the films were acquired to fail. Their scam isn't a scam if a movie succeeds.

Michael Horn

Actually, I'd say it's not a scam if the...filmmaker receives the money a film makes. Less LEGITIMATE expenses, of course. You could chat up Marie here: https://www.stage32.com/profile/252407/about but she may be busy keeping track of the almost 2,500 views my films is getting on the different platforms, despite not being available for a while..

Also, in addition to her trying AGAIN to take my film down from YT, she's probably also going to be busy with a few other...related matters.

And to think that just a couple of months ago she could've avoided all this but probably got some really...bad advice from Belasco and Lunt about how I'd just run away and fold if they turned OJ's lawyers loose on me.

Danny Mac

Connor has venmo, but apart from that, keep us updated Michael. Bradley, I know the finance game you're talking about. It's shifting expenses to investment. It's done all the time. Marie is not shifting expenses into investment taxes in her scam. Her scam is almost retarded. It is what it seems, she hasn't tried to capitalise on any film, she has no contacts. She produced in some capacity only two films and neither of them have had any real release. She couldn't. I truly think she wanted too. There is no shifting of expenses. No making expenses tax deductable, no loss for investors. She knows such investors are wanting to bunk money on schemes that allow them to be involved in a film that might give them kudos. They want to be involved in something cool and if it doesn't make money, they still don't lose any. Nothing cool about Adler. She's just collecting films, in the hundreds. Whether they earn 20 cents or $4,0000, it all adds up to wages. Hers being a very high wage. That wage being an expense. These small amounts pay this very high wage. "I'm CEO, my wage is $200,000 a year".

Danny Mac

Also, Connor. you are a prick. You are young and I let you off, but you are a prick.

Michael Horn

Danny, I don't know if anyone here fully realizes the enormity of the situation, where a filmmaker is told that...HE effectively "owes" A&AE $70,000 for putting his four films on Amazon. People here should try to put themselves in his position, knowing that it's actually free to post them, and - for now - he doesn't even own them anymore.

Anybody want to try to defend the greedy thieves who've done that, and similar things to numerous other filmmakers?

Christopher McDonell

This thread has gone to the dogs. I'm unsubscribing.

Bradley Pontecore

Thanks for that explanation, Danny.

Bradley Pontecore

also, so y'all know, this thread is the 3rd most popular on google when you look up Adler.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS814US814&ei=iEO_W_DPB4-m5g...

Michael Horn

Brad, Thanks, it's very heartwarming to know that this modest little effort is helping people to get to know Marie and her shadowy little associates. As a matter of fact, you can count on me to continue my efforts until A&AE's doors are shut for the last time...and has returned the films, and the monies due, to their rightful owners.

Michael Horn

Let's take a little trip back in time, to June 27, 2018. On that memorable day, I graciously emailed A&AE “An invitation to do the right thing”, in which I proposed generous terms for resolving our dispute. These included returning my films to me, along with the income they had earned on Amazon, and with $1,000 for each film to be paid to A&AE, for doing nothing other than putting the films there and…lying and misrepresenting everything else to me. As they've now done to countless other filmmakers.

Unfortunately, my email fell into the hands of Mark “Da Gangsta” Belasco, aka A&AE’s fictitious "Legal department”. But, instead of appreciating the lyrical simplicity, and fairness, of my proposal Mark decided to go the "let's intimidate him” route, which they've run on numerous filmmakers trying to escape their clutches. Assuring Marie that I was merely a minor annoyance, a temporary bump in the road to perpetuating their cynical scam, Mark proceeded to label my exquisitely fair offer as “extortion”.

As the faithful readers of this forum now know, things kind of went downhill from there. Undoubtedly, poor Jeffrey Lunt, who only wanted to do his puppet shows and reap his share of the ill-gotten gains, now suffers from indigestion, night sweats and scammer's remorse.

Marie, who rumor has it has dyed her hair and is now waiting tables at Barney’s, probably uses each new delivery of The Hollywood Reporter to mercilessly pummel Mark and remind him that he'll never scam, er...work in this town again.

Stay tuned, things are going to get even more interesting.

Jose Antonio Perez

many comments, some of them likes Adler, others not. I´m a filmaker who signed with them in 2 movies, and I have to SAY ONE MORE TIME, I WONT SIGNED WITH ADLER AGAIN!!

Don Diego

Adler's name on upcoming AFM list. I guess they are still in a game. Shoreline, by the way, charges high marketing fees too. A few years back I met a filmmaker who signed with them 15 years contact with 90K in marketing fees. He complained that it was already 3 years and he never saw a penny from them. Lots of desperate filmmakers and too many sharks. Filmmaking is a bad business, a sick environment, a bad investment. And still people want to be in it. Big mystery to me.

Michael Horn

thanks for the reminder, it might be interesting for a bunch of the filmmakers to "visit" them at the AMF to say hello. By then, of course, they may be preoccupied with even more...pressing matters.

Bradley Pontecore

I believe this is pretty simple. Adler tried to sign me to a contract before having seen my film, because I wasn't finished yet. How could they have found this? Could it be my imdb/imdb pro pages? For a brief moment they fed off of my dreams of making films that produced solid returns. At first glance, the expected gross of the film excited me and make their idiotic marketing/promotion percents seem a little less idiotic. Now, I didn't sign w/ them because I saw red from early on. However, had I signed on w/ them, and the fact they release every film on Amazon Prime and the fact that amazon prime pays you .06 cents per hour watched and the fact that I could put it on amazon rentals/ prime and Vimeo myself as I did, I actually made a little money. Nothing to be excited about, but actual money. If Adler is only getting films on prime, you wouldn't make anything even if Adler didn't take a piece of that. Filmmaking is a bad business. The only plus side I can see is artistically. Unless you're rich and then investing in films is a great way to hide cash for tax breaks.

Denise Channing

I've just unsubscribed from email notifications as the repetition got boring a long time ago. I'll come back when I've determined what my experience with Adler is. Anyone really interested can follow my page or contact me for a link to the Facebook page for the project.

Michael Horn

As filmmakers, we can often get a little blasé towards reality, if we spend a lot of time on strictly creative projects and stories. But it may be different when you're a documentarian and when what you're documenting pertains to...your own life.

And perhaps some of you will see that, while we're busy putting our dreams into reality, there are those who'll go to great lengths to take advantage of you...and even greater lengths to try to conceal it. So here's the latest:

YouTube Rejects NEW Censorship Attempt by Marie Adler

https://theyflyblog.com/?p=6908

Adler scam targeted indie filmmakers in US and five different countries

So, while I hope things don't get quite this exciting for Denise, I find all this anything but...boring.

Danny Mac

Nooooooooooooo, not Denise, We've lost Denise. At least I have her facebook page, otherwise, I don't know what I'd do.

Michael Horn

Don't despair, Danny, I'm sure we'll hear from her in time, perhaps while Adler and her accomplices are...doing time.

Michael Horn

FYI:

For those who may be interested in the lengths to which Marie Adler and A&AE are willing to go to prevent filmmakers from disclosing any information about the difficulties they’ve had with A&AE, and as conditions for the filmmakers getting their films back, Adler’s had her attorney send out the same Settlement Agreement (from Glaser Weil) that she tried to use to silence me and prevent the making of DECEPTION ON DEMAND.

The Agreement, as also recently again sent to me, contains conditions like these:

1. The Parties’ Responsibilities

The Parties shall undertake the following actions:

d. Horn agrees not to disparage or make derogatory comments, including comments made verbally, in writing, in print, or through film, tape, or any other medium, regarding Adler or A&AE, or employees and officers of A&AE, or anyone in any way affiliated with Adler or A&AE. This Agreement shall not prevent Horn from making truthful statements should Horn be required by law, as a result of a subpoena or other court process only, to do so.

3. Confidentiality

a. As of the Effective Date, and except as may be required under subpoena or law, the Parties, their attorneys, agents, and any other person or entity purporting to act on their behalf, shall not disclose to anyone, without the prior written consent of all the other Parties, any information concerning this settlement, or the dispute regarding the Films and related expenses, costs, royalties, and revenues received from the Films.

b. Except as may be required under subpoena or law, the Parties, their attorneys, agents, and any other person or entity purporting to act on their behalf, shall not disclose to anyone, without the prior written consent of all the other Parties, any information concerning terms of this Agreement, including but not limited to, the negotiations leading up to the formation of this Agreement and the fact that this Agreement has been entered into, other than to acknowledge that the claims asserted by the Parties in this dispute have been resolved. Notwithstanding this provision, the Parties may disclose the terms of this Agreement to their lawyers, accountants (if reasonably necessary for the purpose of obtaining tax advice and filing tax returns), members of their immediate family (provided that such members first agree, in writing, to be bound by the confidentiality provision of this Agreement set forth in paragraph 3), or, if necessary, to enforce the terms of this Agreement.

4. Liquidated Damages

a. If Horn breaches his obligation pursuant to any part of this Agreement, including but not limited to, the confidentiality of this Agreement and/or the other confidential information, as set forth in paragraphs 3(a) and 3(b) above and/or the non-disparagement clause, the no harassment clause, and the no contact clause, as set forth in paragraph 1(d)-(f) above, Horn shall pay A&AE the sum of US $10,000 per each incidence of breach as liquidated damages…

5. General Release of Claims

d. The Parties represent, and warrant that, with respect to this Agreement, each of them has been advised by his, her, or its legal counsel and is familiar with the provisions, rights, and consequences of Section 1542 of the California Civil Code (“Section 1542”), which statute provides:

A GENERAL RELEASE DOES NOT EXTEND TO CLAIMS WHICH THE CREDITOR DOES NOT KNOW OR SUSPECT TO EXIST IN HIS OR HER FAVOR AT THE TIME OF EXECUTING THE RELEASE, WHICH IF KNOWN BY HIM OR HER MUST HAVE MATERIALLY AFFECTED HIS OR HER SETTLEMENT WITH THE DEBTOR.

Each Party hereby expressly waives and relinquishes, to the fullest extent permitted by law, the provisions of Section 1542 and any similar provisions of law. Each Party further acknowledges that he, she, or it is aware that he, she, or it may hereafter discover facts in addition to or different from those which he, she, or it now knows or believes to be true with respect to the subject matter of this Agreement, and that he, she, or it intends to and does hereby fully, finally, and forever settle, release, and discharge the claims set forth above without regard to the subsequent discovery or existence of different or additional facts.

Each Party further represents and warrants that he, she, or it is currently unaware of any claim(s), right(s), demand(s), debt(s), action(s), obligation(s), liability(s) or cause(s) of action whatsoever against any other Party, business entity or person that he, she, or it has released herein which have not been released pursuant to paragraph 5.

….

One of the problems with 5 d. above is that many filmmakers already know about various claims, demands and actions, etc., underway pertaining to the questionable business practices of A&AE.

There may be filmmakers who are willing to agree to these, and the rest of the, terms in order to get the rights to their films returned to them…without any monies that the films may have made. For those who choose to do so, it’s quite understandable, in light of the many horror stories I’ve received detailing the ordeals they’ve gone through trying unsuccessfully, up until now, to get their films back.

Don Diego

Michael Horn, thanks for an update. It's amazing how low some people/companies willing to go in this "business" to make a buck. Very shady and sneaky practices. And you're only scratched the surface with that particular company/individual. Learning about these infested waters every day.

Michael Horn

You're welcome Don. very shady, sneaky, cynical and...greedy.

But soon there will be one less company using these tactics to defraud indie filmmakers.

Danny Mac

Hello Connor. (Apologies to others - I'm absolutely off topic but had to respond. I'll endeavour to stop doing so after this). Firstly - I didn't try to bully you. You came on to this thread with no useful information about Adler. You simply tried to self-promote, and you told people who had lost their film to Adler that they should have been clever like you, and self distributed. This was not helpful. Secondly - I treat people equally whether they are male or female. Not to do so would be misogynistic. My wife would be appalled if I were to censor myself for the sake of her being "a little lady". Thirdly - Denise actually hadn't been 'nothing but professional'. I absolutely felt for her and every other person who is going through this debacle with Adler, until she decided to question the integrity of a fellow film maker's work. (See image). I found this outrageous. Hats off to Michael, who kept his decorum and didn't play tit for tat in questioning Denise about her artistic integrity. Fourthly - I have no idea what "PA 6 min. short" refers to. Perhaps you mistake me for someone else. In any case, that doesn't matter. Finally - you're right. We should all try to lift people rather than tear them down. I forgive you for your naivety. You are young. I shall leave you now with a nougat of gold - don't treat women any differently to men. From my experience, they're not best keen on that.

Danny Mac

ps you can tell I'm old, as the screenshot is tiny. I was referring to a quote from 3 weeks ago where Denise outrageously laughed at Michael's choice of music.

Bradley Pontecore

If you right click on it and open it to another page, you can read it.

Bradley Pontecore

To point out a couple things.

1. Connor, I was teasing you. You did come in here kinda badly and I was amused. That's why I asked for your paypal. I really don't care though. Other people have advertised their films in this thread, just not quite so quickly.

2. Denise: 2 years ago you said, "Yes. I've been working on the deliverables list, just finished time coding for subtitles. Communications are sometimes slow but they do happen." So it has taken you 2 years to finish the movie for Amazon standards. That's all I was getting at.

Bradley Pontecore

If your film was that unfinished and Adler was that interested, doesn't that say something to you? It says to me they'll take anything. I could make a movie called I USE THE BATHROOM as a super boring exploration on 75 minutes of my bathroom habits and get it w/ Adler. Guaranteed.

Michael Horn

An open letter to Stage32 owners,

I’m sure you’re aware of the information and discussion pertaining to Marie Adler and A&AE here. Nonetheless, I’m going to update you on recent developments...and ask you some questions.

First, since the release of DECEPTION ON DEMAND (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQyH9KPIvk0&t=0s) which continues to reach thousands of viewers worldwide, I've received documentation from filmmakers in a total of seven countries, that shows a deliberate and ongoing pattern of outright fraud on the part of A&AE.

How else can you describe a situation in which completely unsubstantiated deductions for so–called "promotion and marketing expenses” exceed $203,000… for only 12 films? Additionally, the filmmakers involved have not received any documentation to support even one dollar's worth of legitimate expenses paid by A&AE, nor have any reported receiving even $1 in royalties.

Consider for a moment what a royal, criminal scam this is.

And now a question for this forum's owners: Where do you stand on all of this? Is this going to turn into one of those #MeToo situations, where the record will show what is effectively a cover-up - and tacit endorsement - of absolutely intolerable behavior…by a member of this forum?

I will again point out that Marie Adler herself stole my identity and created a fake YouTube channel in my name, on which she lied, defamed and threatened me and my family, and went so far as to publicly claim that she has paid private investigators to bring me into court. Fortunately, when brought it to the attention of YouTube, they immediately took down this defamatory, imposter site by Marie Adler.

Further, Marie Adler tried to have three of my videos removed from YouTube, because they shined a very clear light on her incredibly cynical, predatory, retaliatory and dishonest machinations. Fortunately – and very quickly I might add – YouTube rejected these sinister attempts at suppressing my free speech.

So again I will ask the owners of this forum, who I assumed had the best interests of indie filmmakers at heart and didn't have other considerations, such as possible business relationships with A&AE, etc., how are you tolerating having a person participating on your forum who conducts their business in such a despicable way, or more to the point, whose business is ripping off indie filmmakers?

Now, while these are my opinions, I have yet to see any filmmakers rushing to tell us how much money they have made from their films being with A&AE, or any actual evidence to the contrary of that which I have documented in my film, as well as presented here, and as also presented to me by numerous filmmakers from around the world.

Perhaps at this point you realize that I just don't roll over and go away. So far, it's cost Marie Adler many thousands of dollars to discover it… despite her heavy handed attempts at harassment, intimidation, threats, phony TROs, playing the “victim”, etc. I'll also suggest that an honest response to these concerns DOESN’T require a legal team. What it does require is real, honest concern for the well-being of those indie film makers who might come here looking for guidance and quite possibly instead…be defrauded by a team of predatory con artists running an international scam on hundreds of filmmakers.

Should you feel that this is only a one-sided story, I invite you to do what I did and invite Marie Adler to publicly comment, refute and rebut all of the evidence that appears to show that she and her accomplices are anything but con artists, scammers and predators of the worst kind. She tried to shut me down instead, so how will she react here?

I look forward to reading the answers to my questions from this forum's owners.

Don Diego

Michael, did you try to tell your story to any TV networks or newspapers? How about to organize a picket line during upcoming AFM? Just that, for sure, would create some waves and negative publicity.

Michael Horn

Don,

Interesting ideas, please email me.

Michael

The process of filmmaking is a journey that Marie Adler and Associates was very supportive of our production team in accomplishing our goals... there availability and responsiveness is A Plus... we recommend them to all independent filmmakers

Don Diego

Michael Cyril, there is only one question. Did you see any money on your bank account after Adler or her Associates distributed your film?

Michael

Yes I did Don Diego

Don Diego

Great. Would you mind to share how much you paid in marketing fees and what was the budget of your film?

Michael Horn

Since DECEPTION ON DEMAND was released, it may interest people to know that filmmakers in a total of seven countries report that A&AE claims that for the “marketing and promotion” of 12 films, over $203,000 is "owed" to A&AE by…the filmmakers!

This is especially remarkable because, in each case, their films were ONLY put on Amazon. An average of the highs and lows means that each film “cost” almost $17,000 to put in Amazon, which in the real, non-greedy world is of course...FREE.

Consider that there are about 220 films in the A&AE catalog and do the math. Quite a nice little scam there, potentially running into the MILLIONS…before A&AE would have to pay any significant amount of money to the filmmakers.

Also, in what looks like even more attempts to erase incriminating evidence of Adler’s phony “EP” credits, etc., her imdb page has been sanitized: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4102845/mediaindex?refine=publicity&ref_=nm_...

Fortunately, in case the little pumpkin ever needs them, we’ve made copies of ALL the previously claimed, bogus credits. BTW, one thing we haven’t been able to find is ANY record of a “American Financial Lending” company that did $38 billion in 42 states, which Adler claimed in her - also now redone - website.

Might y’all be getting a sense of how this is ultimately going to turn out for Adler and her accomplices? I do hope that Denise is handling her rude awakening well.

Alan M. Cossettini

Michael can I ask you what production you were involved in? There's nothing associated to your name on IMDb. In this endless discussion everybody shares their experiences with Adler, and almost everybody talks very bad about Marie. So if you're one of the very few who got positive experiences you should definetely tell us more, because ok we all know how bad is Adler now (yes this discussion is getting very boring), but I'm sure I speak for everybody here we''d all love to hear finally something positive.

Your profile shows you've been a user since Oct 2018 (so fresh account), your film CV is empty, what we only know is that "you make documents to films" which mmmh ok. Oh not to mention you have a cute dog as a picture profile.

So of course you need to tell us more about your experience, otherwise we might all think (yes, we're evil!) that your account is just a fake one. Hope you understand, thank you.

Michael

You asked for an experience and I gave you money as far as how much money I make and it’s nobody’s business but mine and I’m not a blistery how might the rest I don’t have an IMDb page I just make documentaries what name I use my documentary is like the ghost writer so as far as All of you who support trump obviously because you sound like a witch hunters I gave you what you asked for now you want me to validate who I am I don’t think so

Alan M. Cossettini

Ok Michael the democratic ghost writer doggy with no IMDb page who makes money with documents and documentaries, now we perfectly understand, no need to validate.

Thanx for sharing your great experience.

Don Diego

Michael Cyril, Nice try. Your Case closed.

Bradley Pontecore

How many times do you have to read Michael's comment before you get full comprehension of it's meaning?

Bradley Pontecore

Personally, I hate witch hunters. Who am I to say that witches can't do their thing?

Danny Mac

Is Michael 'Banksy'?

"You'll never know who I am, I make these documents in secret."

Michael Horn

Now that there's plenty of information - and more to come - on the unethical business practices of A&AE, one can determine for themselves if they wish to associate with this company. It's neither right nor necessary to consider unlawful actions and far more productive to go to AFM and seek out legitimate companies and individuals who can assist you to bring your project to fruition. Best of luck!

Michael Horn

My film, DECEPTION ON DEMAND, just won the Diamond Award (http://www.pinnaclefilmawards.com/Winners.html), the top award in the Best Documentary Short at Pinnacle Film Awards.

Michael Horn

DECEPTION ON DEMAND has been chosen to be a semi-finalist in the Los Angeles CineFest film festival (https://www.lacinefest.org).

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