Screenwriting : I feel so overwhelmed! by Ann Burr

Ann Burr

I feel so overwhelmed!

I read and read scripts to get an idea of how they should be. Then people on here say do it this way or that way. Does anyone else feel that way?

Pierre Langenegger

I used to be stuck and didn't know where or how to start until I read the wordplay articles.

Beth Fox Heisinger

It is overwhelming to tackle a script. Daunting. Perhaps break it up into stages of process. In the beginning, focus more on the story. Don't worry about the superficial elements just quite yet. Work from the inside then out. What story are you trying to tell? Research. You need a solid base or anchor from which to start. From there study scripts that are similar to your idea or perhaps read as many as you can that are in the same or related genre(s). As already mentioned, Wordplayer is great way to kick start yourself when stalled. Of course, there's Stage 32 to help as well. Try not to overfocus on the details of screenwriting -- at least in the beginning. That works well for me. Allow yourself creative freedom. I focus on the story, the idea, then get it down into an outline, then work on the first draft, constructing it on the page, begin chipping away at it. It's during the rewriting process that I hone my script, consider the formatting, structure, pacing, kill off my darlings, edit, seek reviews, et cetera. :) I hope that helps, Ann!

CJ Walley

This is sadly the negative side of screenwriter's forums; they tend to be 10% discussion on craft, 40% requests for peer feedback, and 50% obsessing over pseudo-rules. As you say Ann, you've read and read scripts, but now I assume you're reading through statements that you, as an aspiring amatuer, aren't actually allowed to write in the same ways you've seen? I'm afraid there's a lot of intentional and unintentional scaremongering in the screenwriting world. A lot of is due to chinese whispers and some of stems from snake oil salesman. You have to keep in mind that the vast majority of writers are in the position where they are writing scripts, entering them in competitions or querying, and then trying to decipher the results. This often leads to writers forming the conclusion that their story is sound but there's something wrong with the way it's been presented. Compounding that is a plethora of vultures who leverage that to convince potential customers that they know the secret tweaks needed to jump through the hoops. Now I'm not taking pot shots at script consultants here, the good ones don't do this. This all results in this introspective obsession over the superficialities Beth hints at. For many the way to ease their concerns is to find lists of rules and share them. These lists themselves are often created for the very purpose of going viral through writer's communities. They are easy to understand and easy to tackle. What they promote often becomes reinforced through peer feedback, they enable one writer to critique another writer's work on what seem like objective grounds. These in turn can sometimes become pseudo-rules within communities and create pseudo-experts, sometimes even pushing out those with real world experience. And it all becomes -very- convincing. I have fallen for a lot of it and it's hampered my progress. Most of this was prior to Stage 32 when I interacted on communities where nobody used their real name and volunteered no information about themselves. One of the great things about a place like this is you can dig a little into a member's background and establish just how much experience they have. And here's the thing. More often than not it's the working writers who denounce the rules and encourage a focus on crafting story. It happens everywhere. If you go on a web design forum there will be long drawn out arguments about petty web design rules supported by those who aren't getting clients. If you go on a modified car forum there will be endless debates about engine tuning science promoted by those who've never changed their own oil. It's human behavior. Ann, I say go back to those scripts and take a step back. Either we live in some bizarre world where it's one rule for one and one rule for another or what you are looking at is hard proof that there are many ways to skin a cat rather than save the cat.

Kerry Douglas Dye

Excellent post CJ. I dispute your earlier assertion that you have trouble with endings. :)

CJ Walley

Thank you kindly. I was very much torn between my love of cats and my love of puns.

Susan Holtzer

Pierre, I strongly second the Wordplayer site. I was lucky enough to come across it by accident when I was first starting to approach screenwriting, and their articles totally opened my eyes to what screenwriting was all about. Great stuff.

Pierre Langenegger

Yeah, it's kind of a pity that Terry's too busy to write them more regularly ;)

John Luerding

I feel that way every day. It makes me feel like I'm drowning, that the separation of success is the water level just below the surface and I'm drifting further down. "write this way, do this, adjust that, try this, spend money to make money," For the love of God just have one standard format and leave it alone!!!! course we know that is fantasy. I think my job now is simply to see how hard and fast I can throw sand against the wind and duck in time. I still don't duck in time.

Phillip "The Scribe Who Cares'" Hardy

CJ: Bloody good post sir. Ann: My counsel is have fun writing and try to write the type of movie you would like to see on the screen.

Mark Glamack

If all those other people were in the arena, all of them would have the same experiences with a magical formula that would work for everyone. The fact is they don't. If you have something of value to someone else, and those people think, they can make money off it, you will find them at your doorstep. Be as creative as you can with a pragmatic overview of what you think most people would want to see. Be different and unique, and know that what you have to offer is something that someone else sees value in. If you try to be someone else you will always be disappointed. Other peoples successes is predicated upon many factors. Make your work stand out from the crowd. When you're happy and content that you did the best work possible, submit it and let the cards fall as they may. If it's rejected, know that it doesn't mean that it's no good. It may be that it's just not the right time for them. On an average of ten thousand scripts submitted per studio, and per talent agency, per year, and having the right connections, know that if it were easy, everybody would be doing it. The most important thing is to always follow your bliss. You don't want to reach retirement age, look back and say, "What if?"

Mark Glamack

Yes john. Our business is filled with rejections from people within our business, to those people who buy tickets. Everybody is an expert on what's best or worst for THEM. "You can please some of the people some of the time, but never all of the people all of the time. " You can only hope for the best. As you know, it takes money to make a film, and a lot of money to produce a motion picture that will give the public something they can't get from television. The competition is fierce. Also, you could have the best script ever and have it not sell. The value of anything comes down to what someone else is willing to pay for it. That means finding someone who is. It can be a long process, but when done right, with all the soldiers in place, you will know the exhilaration of high achievement, and as Teddy Roosevelt said, "...if you fail, at least you fail greatly, so that your place will never be with those timid souls who know nether victory nor defeat."

F Wheeler

As long as your screenplay formatting is consistent, the reader will usually go with it. As long as the 'rules' are pretty straight forward and don't change, the reader will focus on the ideas, not get bogged down by the words.

CJ Walley

Something that will always resound with me was a post I read on a bodybuilding forum. There had been a length back and forth over everything from macronutrients, to workout regimes, to lifting form, it was hard on the bro-science. Then this one guy, a successful guy, made this post encouraging people to just lift the bar. He rallied for less dwelling over detail, fewer excuses, no more debates and for people to simply get out there and do the fundamental task needed. It was very much the think less and write more ethos. So now I always tell myself, just lift the bar.

Shari D. Frost

I've read a bunch of black list scripts that were loaded with typos and/or didn't have story beats and act breaks hitting on the Save the Cat designated page numbers. But they were good stories. I think that's all that really counts (not that I'm advocating for typos!) I tune out as much of the "noise" as possible, but I listen carefully for constructive feedback and get really excited about insights that resonate with me, that say "you get my story and you just helped me kick it up a notch!"

Chas Franko Fisher

There is no right way to write. But being overwhelmed and not writing at all is a sure fire way to not get anything written at all which would be the real tragedy.

CaSandra Mathis

I definitely felt that way for quite some time. But, I came across some books and articles and people that made the most sense and stuck with them. That's the key, I believe, to find a few people who make sense to you and provide the guidance and information you need. Listening to too many people, or going to multiple sources can definitely throw you off your game and make you feel like tossing in the towel. Here are 3 sources I believe will help you (anyone) tremendously. You're already in one, Stage 32. :-) "Good In A Room," (goodinaroom.com) is a website run by a woman, Stephanie Palmer, who really knows her stuff. If you haven't visited before, trust me, it's a place you'll want to go and stay for quite some time. Be sure to subscribe to her newsletters and get any other information she's got. This lady does her research and stays on top of the writer's game. She reminds me so much of Joey Tuccio and Stage 32. She gives a damn about other people succeeding. She's not just hawking around to take people's money like so many of these so called screenwriting gurus. Another great source for all things screenwriting with a huge emphasis on screenplay formatting (with tips for TV scripts too) and a good take on marketing is a book, "The Screenwriter's Bible" sixth edition. That's the latest edition. The author is David Trottier and I assure you, he's the greatest thing I've come across along with Good In A Room and Stage 32. Between these three sources, I doubt you'll ever need anything else other than the willingness and determination you already have to work hard and then work harder.

Phillip "The Scribe Who Cares'" Hardy

Just started reading Screenwriter's Bible again while waiting for my wife. It's a great book.

CaSandra Mathis

@Phillip E. Hardy - It certainly is. I keep it by my workstation at all times.

Pierre Langenegger

I agree with William, there is no one way. Each person must find a method that works for them and it may take a while to find that.

Pierre Langenegger

You know you're right, I know I'm right. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Pierre Langenegger

“what we here in America call PROVEN RESULTS”? What an incredibly obnoxious person you are, Cat.

Chas Franko Fisher

I was about to call her out on that.

Chas Franko Fisher

And Cat, you may have A way. That doesn't make it the ONE way.

Kerry Douglas Dye

Proven? So prove it.

Chas Franko Fisher

Cat, all you have PROVEN is that you know how to use the CAPS LOCK. As for soliciting, when you asked Ann to PM you, that was you soliciting her to buy your product. With the proven results of a Broadway play and being read? Come on. I applaud any method that helps writers achieve their goal, including yours. Some may be worth paying for by certain writers. But if Hemingway or Sorkin didn't use your method, how can you possibly describe your way as THE way?

Chas Franko Fisher

P.S. Ann - sorry that your question has descended to this. But let it be a warning that asking questions like this will lead to people trying to take money off you with "the" answer - including people who have no students with a single produced screenplay, only a Broadway production. There are many free resources out there that will help you on your journey like the Scriptnotes podcast, the GoIntoTheStory blog, the #scriptchat forum on Twitter, etc. The only way you will learn how to write is by writing.

Cherie Grant

Wow Cat you really love to rub people the wrong way. I've been to many classes and while they all think they have a secret map it actually, and hilariously, all looks the same. I've yet to come across anyone who teaches who is original.

John Luerding

I don't subscribe to people wanting money in exchange for information, especially in a community environment where we all aspire to published and or read. We are all in this together and as a community we help one another. If you are here saying, "You should take my course.", then as a default setting you are not helpful. That is a sublime manner in panhandling. If you were here to help, you would just come right out and say what you feel is a success. I don't buy courses, I won't buy books. I listen to people, and filter out the trash from the reasonable advice. It boils down to... write for yourself, and if the reader likes the story, they will over look the writing flaws because we all know that once a script gets optioned, it goes in for rewrite and butchery, even while principle photography is taking place.

LindaAnn Loschiavo

Is this what they calling "hijacking a thread"? Sheesh. I agree -- "Good In A Room," (goodinaroom.com) -- is a very helpful website about the craft.

Chas Franko Fisher

Cat I thought you were a professional who didn't stoop to insulting people! And now that I know you have been a professioner READER - not paid to write - I am really quaking in my boots at your insults.

CJ Walley

I feel this thread has come full circle now. I warned about scaremongers trying to get their hand in your pocket and look where we are.

Pierre Langenegger

Chas, I think calling you an ass constitutes personal abuse. Isn't there a site policy to kick off members who do that?

Chas Franko Fisher

Cat when did I insult you? Was it when I asked "But if Hemingway or Sorkin didn't use your method, how can you possibly describe your way as THE way?" and you didn't answer? And I don't look down on Broadway at all. It's an incredible achievement. Just not a screenwriting one. And that was the only PROVEN RESULT you cited. As for smart, does completing a law degree count?

Chas Franko Fisher

My goodness Cat. I wish you well but can you keep your vitriol to yourself?

Cherie Grant

oh she's been deleted. I hate that.

CaSandra Mathis

Cat got deleted? Bummer! Didn't see all of the conversations, but hate to see her go just the same. Hate to see anyone go. :-(

Cherie Grant

Yeah I mean how else are we supposed to get our entertainment if everyone behaves?

CJ Walley

Let's not jump to assumptions about Cat being deleted. The moderation team here take that kind of thing incredibly seriously and it's -very- rarely been done. It's actually possible for members to delete their own account along with everything they have posted.

CaSandra Mathis

@John Luerding - It's true that no submitted script is perfect. In fact, I've read a ton of scripts from movies already made and I've yet to find one without a few spelling errors or a thing or two out of place. All minor stuff though. But, your screenplay isn't selling "just" a movie idea, it's selling you as a screenwriter. And, all screenplays aren't re-witten by a new source. If a writer's good enough, they could be hired to make the changes the producer, studio, etc... wants as well as work along with the producer, or another writer, etc... on other projects. There are a ton of opportunities in this writing game, so we shouldn't limit ourselves to "just trying to sell a script" when putting forth a greater effort could land us so much more. The industry exec. may not even like your script, but love your writing style and hire you to write a concept of theirs. It's a lot riding on any script you submit. So, you definitely want to do your best. Your very best, not just be good enough. Investing a small amount in a book that will guarantee your formatting is top notch, or a class (like those here on Stage 32) or Webinar (Stage 32) which is even cheaper, to ensure you give the best presentation of dialogue, ensure your story follows through properly and isn't all over the place, etc... is well worth it. :-)

Cherie Grant

CJ I never assumed who deleted her. I know people can delete themselves.

Beth Fox Heisinger

Yikes! Easy tigers! :) And, no, no one was deleted. I have seen Cat's comments. Yes, soliciting within threads is not appreciated. And, combative behavior isn't usually well-received, well, by anyone, really... Anyway, thanks so much everyone. We are a tight community. :) Please feel free to reach out to me if you see something or wish to report something. I'm here to help. Sorry about all this, Ann... Okay, back to regular programming. :)

Kerry Douglas Dye

Yeah, guys, let's be careful who we drive off. We're running low on megalomaniacs around here. Can we please cultivate the couple who remain?

John Luerding

Can we not get this arrogant fella banned from here. I didn't join this site to read a self absorbed person insult people.

Shawn Speake

Keep on gettin' it, Anne… this too shall pass.

Rick Reynolds

I've found the script to be much like resume writing - If you show your "PERFECT" resume to 4 people, you're going to get 5 opinions - almost none of the opinions will be as energetic as you would hope. - Yet, somehow, with that same resume, a job is seized and acquired! Take ANY advice with a grain. Continue to learn and expand. It's been mentioned several times that there is no Perfect Right Way; no single path to the screenwriter's podium. Take the tips that resonate and keep writing. /cheers

Phillip "The Scribe Who Cares'" Hardy

I just want to declare my undying love and respect for everyone in this thread... just sayin'

Shawn Speake

One way to relieve the stress is to determine where you are with your writing. Grade yourself on the art of screenwriting and the art of storytelling - completely different subjects. Find out what you do well, and where there's room for improvement. Three coverages of one script will tell the tale. Rethink, rewrite, and repeat. You now have a methodical process that allows you to enjoy your journey.

Mark Glamack

Readers for studios and agency's have an insight that few writers have - they have experience on what interests the decision makers. There are several levels that any script goes through to be green-lit, but like most things it's a process. Many of these people become hardened just being in this environment and the reality of it all. I can tell you that there is no magic formula, but if your script is unique, professional, appeals to a wide audience, and someone is looking for what you have to offer, you just might win the lottery in a business that only survives on the Business-Show of it all. It all begins with a strong foundation (the script) then the budget which will determine who, what, when, and why people will be interested in the project, distribution, market value, and level of quality, resulting in how many screens will show your film. Then there's marketing, advertising and promotions. It starts with the story and ends with those who think your film is worth paying for, or television ratings. This is the toughest business in the world. Having a great script is a great beginning, but NO guarantee anyone will want to invest in it. Getting BIG names to sign on, and a distribution deal will surely give you an edge for investors to raise an eyebrow.

Mark Glamack

Thank you Steve for your kind, and profound response . It makes the time i spend worthwhile.

Fiona Faith Ross

I'm so gad I found this thread because I have my first draft, and I know some aspects that need work (e.g. better differentiation between characters speaking styles), and I have recognised a couple of places where the story is weak, but trying to make these value judgements is soooooo difficult. I can do it more successfully in other people's work, but not my own.

Chanel Ashley

Bummer, missed out on some entertainment, who's Cat?

Shawn Speake

Hey, Fionna! Learning how to discern coverage takes lots of practice. In years 1-5, I got coverage almost every month - and sweated every word. Now, because I know what will work for my story and what won't, it's a joy to get coverage back. Also, I can probably tell you the age and sex of the reader by a single comment. Keep on gettin' it! This too shall pass!

Ann Burr

@john. So just write clean and clear. No extra details?

Chris Hind

Hello Ann. Yes a lot of people on this site like to get up on their soapboxes and swoon at the sound of their own authoritative voices. It's kind of like when a puppy first hears him/herself bark for the first time. Just be your self and let your wonderful and unique voice fill the page. You already know how to format because you've been reading all those scripts. Be fearless Ann! Be you and be brave and adventurous because no one remembers a scriptwriter who played it safe!

Ann Burr

I seem to write in novel style. Giving to much info. How do I break myself from doing that?

Diego Lopes Silveira

A good example of how writing is always surprising - for a long time I've read about screenwriting in books and blogs, all about what I should and shouldn't do. Most of it made sense, but then I read James Cameron's script for "Aliens". On the first 10 pages he does some things I got tired of hearing a good screenwriter should never do. It's not about wrong or right, but his way of writing is effective, regardless of any "rules of screenplay". A Tarantino script has very little description of set design and vague ideas of how the characters look, but you read it and see them in the movie and you think "That's it!". You have to know the industry's way of looking at it, but you don't have to limit yourself by it. Try finding your voice. A good tip that worked for me: try writing a script OUT of a specific tool for it, like Celtx or Adobe Story. Just write freely on Notepad or Word. That way, you don't limit yourself to that format and come up with news ways of showing your scene. When you come back to your usual tools, to the screenplay format in Courier 12... you realize how much they may have been butchering you, but now, you're free.

Phillip "The Scribe Who Cares'" Hardy

Ann: I think that it’s okay to novelize elements of your screenplay. The key is to do it with economy. I like reading scripts with creative and visual narrative elements. However, the reader doesn’t need to know what your characters are wearing in every scene. Part of my revision process is reading my script through several times and removing words rather than adding them. I look for how can my characters say the same thing with less dialogue and what non value added things can I trim from my narrative. And if a scene doesn’t move the story forward, I get rid of it.

Beth Fox Heisinger

Ann, as Phillip and others have said it's learning to write in a pithy manner. There's a cadence to a script, a rhythm. Try to capture the scene/action/character in as few words/lines as possible. However, it's much more than that; it's choosing the "right" words. Some writers take "economy" way too far in my opinion; their scripts read as if written by a neanderthal, omitting even proper grammar to create an overly brisk read. Again, it's not just terse writing you are trying to achieve, but also vivid. Screenwriting is visual, is it not? Creative choices are just as important as economic ones. :)

Beth Fox Heisinger

Ann, here are some simple tips to avoid "novel-like" writing; the first, of course, is to write only what would be seen on screen (although, you can get away with a few things here and there); every word on the page should serve the story; keep everything active, "Ann is driving" becomes "Ann drives;" avoid "ing" as much as you can; avoid extra adjectives; avoid adverbs; write in short sentences; try to keep paragraphs to 3, maybe 4 lines at most; and above all else avoid redundancy. Of course, these are just tips. The rest is up to you! :) I hope that helps!

Beth Fox Heisinger

Aha, great minds think alike! Although Dan's tips are certainly more extensive and always fantastic. Thank you so much, Dan!

Ann Burr

Dan- I really tend to give to much detail. I go to deep. I'm trying to break myself of that.

Chas Franko Fisher

Has anyone sent you this amazing essay by CHuck Palaniak? http://1000wordseveryday.tumblr.com/post/54758529019/writing-advice-by-c... Obviously a novellist but not only do his tips lead to cleaner writing, they also force you to think cinematically. Think dramatically. Awesome. And challenging.

Kerry Douglas Dye

Great post, Chas. Totally translatable to screenwriting. He's basically saying "show don't tell", but then illustrating what that actually means with real-world examples.

Chas Franko Fisher

Thanks Kerry. Wish I could take credit for another man's genius.

Beth Fox Heisinger

Thanks for sharing Mr. Palaniak's essay, Chas -- fantastic writing advice! Although, a bit "wordy." ....Just kidding!!!! It's brilliant. Wonderful clarity and great examples of "show don't tell." ;)

Phillip "The Scribe Who Cares'" Hardy

Beth: I agree with you about choosing the right words. Choosing well can assist with the process saying more with less. However, many scripts I read have what I call "paint by numbers dialogue" that sounds artificial. Another problem I see is people that have their characters talk at one another instead of to each other. I worked with a few people last year that wrote good narrative and horrible dialogue. Being economic is no excuse for poor interaction between characters.

Fiona Faith Ross

@Ann I feel your pain. I (apparently) suffer from Novelists Disorder too, lol. That's fine. It's hard to make the switch, though, isn't it? In practice, novelists have to avoid many of the same sins as screenwriters are accused of. There's no room for waffle in a successful modern novel. The only difference is that the novelist can reveal a character's thoughts and "streams of consciousness" whereas the film script must be purely visual and dialogue. I'm finding this thread very helpful because I am new(ish) to screenwriting.

Fiona Faith Ross

Hahahaha! Here's hopin'.

Beth Fox Heisinger

Couldn't agree with you more, Phillip. :)

Mark Glamack

Ann, you have great advice here, with mostly everyone saying: be as creative as you can within an established industry format, and an understanding that a screenplay and novel are very different. A novel must be descriptive with detail for a reader to picture the written word. A screenplay needs a minimum of detail for a director to then visualize his/her vision for an audience to see. In film, it's the director's vision that becomes final, unless the writer is also the director. in which case you can be as detailed as you want.

Jim Fisher

Form follows content, well, that's a cop out. Ah, anyone who worries about format over content is looking up the wrong end of the horse. And if a script reader or consultant charges you to straighten out your format, they probably have no idea what your story is about. Yes, there are script writing conventions - but they are not laws and you won't go to jail for violating them.

CaSandra Mathis

I'd think any serious writer would value both form and content and strive to be their best at both. I say "their" best because they'll always be someone who's better at one, or the other and there's only so great any person will become at either. This is why we have damned good writers and award winning writers. Personally, I wouldn't dare risk having what is potentially a great script (and lots of hard work) passed on because of faulty formatting. Considering how easy it is to learn formatting, why would any serious writer not master it to ensure it's correctness in their projects?

Phillip "The Scribe Who Cares'" Hardy

I just took Dan's estimate and crunched the numbers. Let's say you have three scripts your pitching in the spec world. If you take that number and divide by 150,000, your chance of success is 0.00002. So to put that in quantifiable terms, it's two hundred thousandths. So that ain't bad right?

Beth Fox Heisinger

Well, "Save the Cat" is rather a paradigm -- a "reductive" version of screenwriting; a "starter kit" if you will. Unfortunately, because it makes screenwriting so easy to understand many writers believe it is all they need. Sure, the 15 beats are a great observation of story structure but they really don't go much further into storytelling then surface touch points. There's much missing here -- a sense of creativity and meaning. It also seems to be coming from an audience point of view not a writer's. Nonetheless, "Save the Cat" is helpful but understand a "template" can not make a story -- certainly not an original one. :)

Phillip "The Scribe Who Cares'" Hardy

Beth: If you write a script as well as you make a point, you're on your way!

Chanel Ashley

Cassidy, I agree with you, YOU will never paint like Gustav Klimnt, his THE KISS being one of my favourites - in my humble opinion, you have too many half-baked opinions - so many members like yourself have great wisdom re writing, but NEVER have any examples of their work for all of us mere mortals to read and assess - if Save The Cat is all that is required, then show us the quality of your writing gleaned from this ONE source - I don't doubt you can write, I would simply like to see some evidence of your prowess and come to my own conclusion, but we will NOT see any, WILL WE?

Cherie Grant

Cassidy, that's quite a claim.

Chanel Ashley

Cassidy, another hero arrives at S32 - you're a student, high school? I'm impressed you were aware of Gustav Klimnt, is that solely because you saw the recent movie with Helen Mirren? Curious, that's all - you are correct, you have NOTHING to prove to me, but if you must make assertions, BACK THEM UP - you'll find that in a chapter in Save The Cat - you did read it, didn't you? Re art, I'm a collector and have several originals by well known Australian artists, re motel art, I can at least afford, it, lol.

John Luerding

Cassidy, if you are not going to polite to others, then plz just leave the area. This is not a forum for deliberately belittling some one.

Chanel Ashley

Haha, how many book? Why ask me, you're apparently the new resident expert - your language, yes, must be HIGH SCHOOL - I never said you have to be a good writer to express an opinion, just being a writer would suffice - this thread is for scriptwriters, of any capacity, it's just that I have seen no evidence of your CAPACITY - how can you be taken seriously when you suggest one book is all one needs to become a writer, please dwell on that the next time you take a dump, and remember to wash your hands afterwards, I think that is also mentioned in Save The Cat, the answer to all your questions.

Chanel Ashley

You should know, in your experience and capacity as a cook, that the SECRET is not in a book or books, the TRUE secret is ultimately HARD WORK AT YOUR CRAFT - did you only learn from ONE cook book? Do you only follow the same recipes all the time, or do you explore other recipes, other books or glean information from other cooks - perhaps, perchance, why not ask a CHEF?

Chanel Ashley

Thanks John, that was very kind, appreciate the thought - don't worry about Cassidy, just a little banter, lol.

John Luerding

Seems even children are allowed in here. I'll have the moderators to look into this guy. Very disrespectful and that kind of childish talk is not wanted around here.

Cherie Grant

WHOA lol. Bit over the top there Cassidy. Little man grow up a bit. Good thing Chanel has a tough hide. ;) but she's right too. No chef learns from one book. And they perfect their craft by doing.

Shawn Speake

Happy Memorial Day, guys! … Cassidy, when you get a minute, let's talk about S32 and get to know each other a little better. 804-840-7509.

Jean-Pierre Chapoteau

The mods send Shawn in when they need someone... dealt with. Go ahead, Cassidy. Give Shawn a call. We'll all see you...later.

Beth Fox Heisinger

Cassidy, I don't know if you realize but now you have caught the attention of two Stage 32 moderators. I have zero tolerance for that kind of conduct. The folks that run this site certainly do not appreciate disrespectful behavior either. You can make your point without resorting to such vulgar insults. Please edit your post or run the risk of having your comments deleted. Thank you.

Shawn Speake

Would anyone mind if we delete this thread? I'm trying to get offline and go to a picnic with a clear conscience!

Beth Fox Heisinger

Hey Shawn. Let's not let Cassidy ruin it for the rest of us. I sent in a formal compliant about his poor conduct. Go enjoy that beer and barbecue, buddy!!!

Shawn Speake

I love you guys, but it's picnic time! Beth has the helm and I agree! There's a lot of good stuff here. We rise above the negative energy!

Lee Bailes

Nice work - mods to the rescue :)

Lee Bailes

And nice work John :) - it was the right thing to do

Beth Fox Heisinger

Cassidy, I'm recommending you for suspension.

Tony Cella

@Beth: You probably hold more sway as a moderator, but when I reported a user for attempting to scam me then harassing me through private messages they told me it was some kind of misunderstanding on my part. We'll see what happens, but I'm not confident in the ownership's approach to handling malicious users.

Beth Fox Heisinger

Tony, will you please send me the information. I'll take care of it.

Tony Cella

Thank you for the offer, but I've already spoken to management. It's not a problem now. If I decide to take further action, I'll send a message directly to Richard Botto.

Beth Fox Heisinger

Okay, good, Tony. Although, we (moderators and staff) try to take care of things before involving RB -- He's got a lot on his plate. Perhaps in the future, let me know how I can help. I've had many spammers and scammers removed from the site. :) Best to you!

Amanda Toney - Stage 32 Next Level Education

Hi Everyone - just wanted to let you know that Cassidy's comments have been deleted. My sincerest apologies for anyone who was upset by his offensive content. We at Stage 32 have a ZERO tolerance policy for harassment and bullying. Please understand that while we encourage healthy debate, if you cannot keep things constructive, you will be deleted. Have a wonderful Memorial Day Weekend!

Vince Conside

Your comfort zone, will come, try different methods, took me awhile. Hang in there, don't give up!!!

Phillip "The Scribe Who Cares'" Hardy

can you put the deleted remarks back please? I didn't get a chance to read them... just kidding.

John Luerding

Not much of a happy dancer, but.... :)

Chanel Ashley

I hope this thread isn't deleted, there is plenty GOOD here - re Cassidy, I had no aversion to his comments except for the swearing, you don't require four letter words of that magnitude to criticise me, but if you MUST, post it on my wall, not in a thread - there was no BOASTING re my art collection, one can buy excellent original art from $1,500 - $3,500 at auctions, so no airs and graces here, thank you, cheers.

Phillip "The Scribe Who Cares'" Hardy

Now I'm glad I didn't read these foul words spoken about my friend Chanel. Not on your wall or anywhere.

Chanel Ashley

That's very kind, Phillip, thank you - I have received considerable criticism re me asking other members, especially those that make big claims, "to put their money where their mouth is" and demonstrate evidence of their "writing" - apparently it is a "sin" to dare ask someone provide a "sample" of their work, it is too severe a challenge, it would seem - anyway, Phillip, you were one member I "challenged" re your writing because you made big statements and only had "log lines" as evidence, but was gracious enough to send me one of your screenplays - it was impressive, it was QUALITY writing and inspired me to try and become a BETTER writer, so that's my challenge - thank you again, Phillip.

Phillip "The Scribe Who Cares'" Hardy

Channel: Thanks so much:)

Beth Fox Heisinger

Not to worry, Chanel, the thread will not be deleted. :)

Chanel Ashley

Don't often hear from you, Dan, so I appreciate the sentiment, thank you - I don't actually ask anyone to "prove" anything to me, but I do ask they "substantiate" their claims - it is only my opinion, but I challenge the assertion that solely reading Save The Cat qualifies one as a writer and that reading that ONE book will suffice, again, it is an opinion.

Phillip "The Scribe Who Cares'" Hardy

Dan: I normally don't share my work at S32. And that has absolutely nothing to do with the fantastic pool of talent using this site. I generally don't believe in posting my scripts anywhere and only have one posted at Simply Scripts. However, I do share work with other writers that I trust and have received some wonderful feedback from S32 folks like Chanel and Anthony Cawood. In turn, I’ve really enjoyed their work. But I agree with the sentiment that no one should be post or share their work if they're not comfortable doing so.

Phillip "The Scribe Who Cares'" Hardy

Dan: Makes perfect sense.

Christopher Binder

Nope, have my own, streamlined style of writing.

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