Screenwriting : Screen Writing Competitions by Patrick Freeman

Some thoughts: 1. Yes, people do this. Though if you're a complete nobody running a crummy contest like this I'm not sure you'll get 1000 submissions at $100 a pop, but, hell, maybe you will. I'd imagine they'll be bottom of the barrel in terms of quality, though. Mostly from desperate sorts. How much did you spend to advertise this contest, BTW? 2. How does this hypothetical individual plan to read through 1000 scripts to find one that's any good and can be produced for $100k (which is very little money to shoot a feature)? One possible outcome: you spend days and weeks skimming pages and never find a worthy winner. Or you pay readers to do the work for you, in which case you're spending even more money! 3. Has the winning screenwriter won anything? Well, if they're a big enough newbie that they'd submit to a shady operation like this, they're probably thrilled to get a credit, even if it's on something awful that no one will see (if it's ever completed at all). Seems like at least a $100 value. 4. What about the losers? I dunno... their $100 bought them a valuable lesson? Am I thinking "great idea"? No, I'm thinking it's both unethical and probably won't work very well as a business venture. But give it a try and let me know how it goes!

lol Craigslist. Cause nothing says 'legit' like Craigslist.

Umm, no.

There, see? Colossal Studios. I wonder how they will figure out how to pay that money. Just FYI, I wasn't considering doing this. I was just wondering, with all the so-called screenwriting competitions out there, what's to stop anyone from doing it?

Then to answer your question succinctly. Nothing. Anyone could do that.

And apparently a lot of people do. :-)

It's like the modelling or extras agencies that say they'll find you work but you need to pay them a fee to register. You put down your money and never hear anything. If you have true talent, you don't need to enter competitions which you stand, relatively, very little chance of winning. All you need to do is tout your wares via networks and agents. If someone's genuinely interested, they'll be in touch. Despite all you've heard, you've never heard of anyone having their arm broken by swan. Same goes for script competitions. ;-)

It's been done - never successfully that I know of. There was a small comp in Nashville years ago that tried and failed, and the ones mentioned above as well. The waters are so muddy now, creating one that promises to be legit is already facing odds. Not to mention the fact that the winning script will need to be picked based on the entry fees collected toward the budget NOT necessarily the best script. Where this formula has been successful is in local film commission comps (Nevada comes to mind) or with shorts where budget is much more controllable. We did one in FL a few years ago for shorts that took it further... it was for a local film group (not just writers) the writer had to also provide a breakdown and budget and the winner used the crew and talent from the group first. The idea is great but the business model is flawed, features have so many variables that it would be really tough to guarantee production unless your a project greenlight type entity.

If this is the way the production company finds projects to fund, imagine what convoluted methods lie in store for hiring talent or casting the film. Creative people have to work as a team in order to work in television and film and there is not now nor ever been a shortcut to this fact. If your ideas are exciting and creative and well-developed, you just need patience and perseverance and a bit of luck, not weird pseudo-ponzi marketing schemes to get ahead of the pack. Anyone interested in finding hope in the long game should read The Genius of the System: Hollywood Filmmaking in the Studio Era

Laurie, you make some good points. Here's another hypothetical: What if the originators of the "contest" already have their own script that the can produce for $100 grand? Who's to know that that script wasn't one of the "submitted scripts"? So now, 1,000 unsuspecting, hopeful screenwriters just funded some douche bag's project. All of this is to say that every time you pay money to submit to a competition, how do you know that you're not buying into this exact scenario?

A couple of holes in the scheme. First, how many screenwriters have $100.00 to throw at a script? Second, there is that little matter of the budget. I've seen cameras that go for that kind of money. Third, there is such a thing as theft...I wonder what kind that becomes? Is it mail fraud? Then you have federal people getting annoyed. Oh, and each application is another count in the complaint. Also, I think this might be the last person to judge the quality of a script, don't ya think?

Patrick, I believe that's what the scam out of Nashville ended up being guilty of. Bottom line is, unless a competition can offer you something to advance your script or career it's most likely just a money making venture. The competitions that are reputable and genuinely care about writers have earned that reputation and strive to continue to do so.

This is why we were given brains. We, as writers, use those brains and research the contests before we enter them. In fact, we use our brains to research everything. In fact, we use our brains to think before we act in everyday life: so that we look where we step before we make the step or else we may either be walking into someone or stepping in dogdoo. Brains: use them.

Unfortunately all too often Desperation > Brains. I think situations like this do happen but they don't last long as the smart writers are quick to ferret out the scams and let others know.

Even Reddit has a screenwriting competition....Reddit!!

Someone posting a contest on reddit is like someone posting a contest on a telephone pole with a tear-off email address as to where to send your money. I guess there are at least 359 wannabe screenwriters who haven't learned that brain usage thing.

To be fair, the reddit comp is completely Free to enter and has real prizes for the winners.

It's good to hear it's free, hopefully the winner can actually use the prizes. Few contest wins are worth mentioning when shopping your material, unfortunately a reddit one wouldn't have much clout.

Agree Laurie, but as pointed out in another thread there's only a handful that have that sort of clout when trying to get your script out there... sure it's a nice boost for the winner though.

Guys, all of you make some good points. But flip through the threads in this section of the lounge and see how many writers are talking about this same thing - should they invest in a competition? What to do if they already have invested? The same goes with "script doctors" or "script consultants" or "agents" asking for money. It seems logical that these are obviously scams, and yet writers fall for them all the time. I myself submitted scripts to Amazon Studios and paid to have coverage on one of my better scripts. And for what? To hear some reader, who might just be a frustrated writer, tell me what he doesn't like about it? I understand that the purpose of paying for coverage is to have a "professional opinion" about your work. But who exactly is this "professional? Someone who has sold a dozen scripts? Someone who has even sold one script maybe? Why do we pay for advice from someone who ISN'T doing what we want to be doing?

@Patrick - I agree there are some out there who may have no credits at all, no real experience etc... but we each choose our own path when it comes to these things and, like competitions, we can all do our due dilligence. I like to think that as writers, we are slightly more intelligent than average, so spotting something a little shady shouldn't be too difficult... and of course we have our S32 friends to ask for opinions and advice. Out of interest, how did you select the consultant who provided your coverage, had they sold anything?

This also sounds like a great premise for a film. Just sayin'.

@ Andy, the only time I've ever paid for coverage was through Amazon Studios and I wasn't given a choice who it would be. I have no idea who it was or what his/her creds are. Usually I trade coverage with other writers. That gives me the chance to see how they write and in a couple instances I've been quite impressed, therefor more inclined to value their opinions. @ Philip, when you're doing a work for hire you are a contractor. You do what you're told/hired to do. But when it's a spec script it's your baby, your vision. Everyone, from the beginning of time, has said, "The play is the thing", "The script is the thing", "Nothing happens without a great script" then they find a script and the first thing they do is tear it apart. Why the fuck don't they just A) Write their own damn script so they can be sure it's already perfect, or B) Wait until they find a perfect script?

Patrick: When did you pay for coverage at Amazon studios, was it through someone on the forums? The service is free, and scripts that are evaluated are done so via paid consultants but the charge is not passed on to the screenwriter.

Yeah, I'm with Phillip. I've sold 2, and both were rewritten, mostly for budget reasons. Producers aren't looking for a perfect script. They're looking for a great story and then if they have other requirements (a lower budget, the lead be changed from a 45-year-old man to a 16-year-old girl, add a car chase because car chases help sell in Eastern Europe), then the script will be rewritten. And if I were a producer, I'd do the same. I don't think I've ever read a script or seen a movie where I haven't said, "wouldn't it have been cool if X had happened instead." Of COURSE I'd rewrite it!

@ Phillip, how long ago were those scripts optioned and what has become of them since then? I see MadMonk Productions but I don't see where they've produced anything. Oh wait, MadMonk is you, isn't it? @ Kerry, from your Imdb page I see you're credited with three completed films but two of them you directed yourself. The third one you share writing credit with the director. When you say "Sold 2" did any money actually change hands? Why would a producer ADD a car chase to reduce the budget? I have actually seen quite a few movies where I wouldn't change a single frame. Of course there are always plenty of stinkers. And often, with the worst movies, if you do a little research you'll find that what you saw was not what was originally written. Do a Google search on Battle Field Earth - it's an eye opener. Then there's the story or Robert Rodriguez. He had already made El Mariachi and they were doing Desperado. Story notes were: Can we make it an electric guitar instead of acoustic? How about if we put him on an Indian reservation instead of in Mexico. Then they wanted to change the girl, a Mexican woman, into a blond with blue eyes. Had they succeeded we wouldn't know Salma Hayek. Who here thinks that would have been worth it? Again, if you're writing for hire then you're a contractor - you do what they want or don't do it at all. But unless they're offering enough money to make it worth selling my soul, they can write their own damn script. If more writers felt that way maybe, just maybe writers wouldn't be treated so poorly, and maybe they'd have more respect for the written word in screenplays just like they do with stage plays. That's my opinion - it doesn't have to be yours.

It's interesting that everyone is on here bragging about their success but once you get to the details, all of a sudden it's something they don't "need or care to discuss". And that's totally fine. But let's keep it real.

I got a better idea. Why don't you just create a networking website -- invite all the bitter, frustrated creatives in the world to join so they can vent their spleen to each other and eventually have over 350,000 subscribers who think they're getting it for free. But the website gets advertising and merchandising and subscriptions. Yeah, that's the ticket...then I won't even have to make a movie or award anything....

Logline: Somebody wants to make a movie. Unfortunately he has no money, no equipment, no experience, no script, and maybe not even any talent, but he pushes forward and makes a collective comedy of errors along the way. Here is the basis for your film... Now just write it.

Apparently I touched a nerve. And now some people are butt hurt. Whattayagonnado?

Not hurt. Just like keeping the well from getting poisoned. These are not businesses of geniuses. I started teaching because I was a guest speaker at a career day and saw the students eating up every word their instructors - who'd been out of the business for 30 years were saying. Staying in the sandbox and staying current is the most important criteria I look for in a teacher. To not understand the difference between a screenplay and a theatre play tells me the person doesn't know either. Getting mentioned in a respected competition is a terrific asset. It's third party validation. The best kind you can get. No, it won't get your project sold, nor made -- but it gives you shoulders to stand on.

@Patrick, yes, I have been paid about 20% of the second. The rest I'll get when it shoots. Check IMDb Pro for projects in development (get yourself an account!). It's scheduled to shoot this year (though it was also scheduled to shoot last year, so who knows?) As for the first, of course I was fully paid. It's a union project. I share credit with the director because the director rewrote my spec (budget, remember) and the WGA stripped me of all but a Story By credit. (Which is good, really. The rewrite is awful.) As for the rewrites on the second, I've been working with the director on those rewrites and will probably ultimately have a shared writing credit, though it's based on my original spec (again, happy to not get full credit since some of the rewrites I'm not crazy about). Hopefully you asked because you're interested, not because you're suggesting I lied. :) Anyway, yes, my attitude is indeed different than yours. I put my skills into my spec scripts but not my soul, because I'm trying to sell them. I have sufficient experience to know that I'll be asked to make artistic compromises, which can be painful, but I try to approach it with professionalism. In this way I have made some money as a writer in this business, and I hope to make more. As for the stuff I don't want to compromise on, that's when I direct and self-produce. Then to compromises come from circumstance and lack of money, not idiot producers. :)

For what it's worth, in my very limited experience optioning four shorts, three producers didn't want to change a thing and one wanted to change pretty everything much everything but the concept. As shown, it varies. Personally I love rewriting.

I have a script/concept I wrote and have rewritten parts of it and added band aids to other sections. I Have not touched it or looked at it in 2-3 months. But I still think about chages to it everyday. I am in the middle of writing my 4th original TV pilot and polisheing up my 3rd concept. I am itching to go back to that script because I KNOW I can make it better. I see mistakes and errors I made. I can see myself what I need to do to make itstand out more. Sometimes rewritting can be more enjoyable than writing the original concept because your vision on the concept is now clearer.

Hey Patrick, let's change the tone please. Negativity doesn't really help anyone. Thanks.

I'm with Beth on this one, Patrick. Writing is tough enough without getting hammered outside of the red and blue pencil actions of collaborators. Speaking of which, I have a concept I'm cutting my eyeteeth on but can't decide whether to attack it from a pilot to tv series or as a big screen work. As it is, if I do it as a short, I'll need to split the story line, if I include both then it has to be a feature. My problem is I've never done either one. How do you decide on the treatment?

btw, as a novelist prior to now, I'm still editing work I did 15 years ago.

I know what you mean, Lawrence. Writing is tough but I love it!

If writing and getting projects picked up was so easy, everyone would be doing it!

Remember the quip (I forget who said this) about how you write a novel? Sit in front of a blank page and open a vein.

I believe it was Hemingway, Lawrence. :)

Thank you, Beth. ;-{)