Screenwriting : Film illiteracy by Tom Lazarus

Oh my ... someone needs a mentor. :)

bill client by the hour :)

@Tom it is important to have a classical education. These are the films I grew up,on. But it is a sad realisation that many of these films would not be made today. Perhaps for writers that can only remember one President Bush us older dogs need to find more recent references. I'll put my hand up for a few hundred hours of film watching to develop the list... Just have to get it funded somehow.

Of course there's also STRANGER THAN FICTION and SOCIAL NETWORK...that should be on the list as well.

I fit the film illiteracy category. lol! I know that is not a good thing but don't watch that many movies and I only saw one of those on the list.

"But it is a sad realisation that many of these films would not be made today." what are you talking about Craig, def disagree with that. Some would not be opening in summer on 3k screens opposite Captain America, but good is good and great is great... that will never change. those movies would get made by the likes of A24 or Focus or HBO but they would get made.

What always amazed me about the folks who haven't seen any movies made before they were born is that it is so easy to see movies now! You just pop in the disk. I used to drive a hundred miles to see some film at a revival cinema, or have to set the alarm and watch the late late show at 4am. Plus, anyone who wants to work in film should be eager to see as many films as possible! In cases like this, I usually use some film within the period they have been watching as an example and then connect it to the older film. Make them curious to see THREE DAYS OF THE CONDOR because WINTER SOLDIER is an homage to it (maybe even a sequel, considering Redford is in both) (yes, I've read Grady's actual sequel), and THREE DAYS OF THE CONDOR might make them interested in seeing MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE (original) because the postman scene in 3DotC was influenced by the apartment fight in MC... and all of these might lead them to watch THE 39 STEPS, which is kind of the predecessor of all of these films - the original man on the run paranoid thriller... though 39 STEPS might lead them to FLETCH - since they share that public speaking scene, or maybe THE FUGITIVE (movie) since they share the joining the parade scene which precedes it. All movies are 2 degrees of Kevin Bacon from each other. Chances are, whatever movie they love from the past 3 years has it roots in some earlier film which may even be on your list.

Well Dave, we'll have to agree to disagree. Things like Citizen Kane I don't think would stand a snows chance. I love these films I really REALLY do. The way that they set infinite depth of field with multiple stories being told at the same time. Kane in the foreground on the phone and other story elements being played out in the background (in other rooms seen through a window) is masterful. But I believe the style of story telling that returns big bucks has changed.

Tom - I think your intent was good - but the list probably overwhelmed the guy. HOWEVER...The advice I first got was...'watch and analyze 500 movies'...so I did. It only took a year.

I tend to agree with Craig on this one. I've actually never seen 2 of those 10. But if you're giving notes and you're only using examples from pre-1988, then maybe you need to have a more contemporary view of cinema also. I don't think half those films would be made today sadly. certainly not by Hollywood. It's great to cite the classics, but they're not what's selling.

I like Mr Martell's approach. Use current films as examples and drop a history lesson. If your Client/Writer is serious about the craft, he/she will do their own investigation.

Regarding films not getting made - sorry Craig if i sounded a bit WTF! :) but I think those movies would get made today and at twice the rate they were back then because of the need for content. True, the days of Kramer v. Kramer being the #1 box office film are gone and today's Orson Welles wouldn't get Citizen Kane money on his first feature - but he'd get Whiplash money. Blue Jasmine, Frank, Moon, Joe, Birdman, Mud, The Drop, Blue Valentine, Steve Jobs, Spotlight, Greenberg, Frances Ha, The Iceman, Moon, End of The Tour, Away We Go, Love & Mercy, Room... have you seen the films of JC Chandor? I can think of tons of movies that are no more commercial or explosion/plot-filled or less dark than the above list that are getting made today because of all the different niche markets.

Regarding young people, I think that's just a symptom of being young. It's true that old music is cooler than old movies to young people - not sure why that is... but when I was 18, I was all about the movies that came out right then. I wasn't going to sit there and watch The Birds or The Great Escape. As you get older though you realize that you should go watch those movies. You start to realize that instead of watching something because it came out last week you should watch something because it's good! I've seen 7 on that list, been meaning to watch Day for Night for the longest time. P.S. Tom I read your screenwriting book maybe 10 years ago and learned a lot, I even remember your 'rising action' and how you recommended writing a 80-x page first draft, thanks for your contributions, with you and William Martell dropping knowledge around here we all benefit

In my screenwriting classes, I teach craft, not marketing. I don't know what movies will get made today. I don't know if movies that were once made would be made today. I'm not sure of the relevancy of this line of thinking. What surprises me most about screenplays crossing my desk as a teacher and consultant, is that there are surprisingly few tent pole scripts - i.e. scripts that are aimed at the young movie goer and are ripe for sequels. One quote from a studio exec I found pertinent: "We only make movies we know how to market."

Tom. I don't know why you find it surprising as a teacher and consultant that you don't see very many tent pole scripts. I take it most the scripts you are getting are from screenwriters trying to break in and if that is the case they will never break in with a tent pole spec screenplay. I have several even with some pretty well-known directors attached and a studio won't even look at them unless we have at least one or better two A-list actors attached. I also have one with Vic Armstrong attached as director that I optioned once and got it back.

So tell me....how do you get an A-list actor - or better two - attached if you don't write the script?

Tom. You need more than just a script to attache an A-list actor in today world. If you don't have your money in place they won't even read your screenplay. If someone is trying to break in as a screenwriter they better keep the budget under $5M and better yet under $1M.

With all due respect, I'm not sure it's as simple or as black and white as that.

It's pretty black and white Tom ... :) Money talks. Dan's right. The only thing that might change that is if the producer is a mover-shaker and has a lot of A-list friends who will read anything he-she is attached to. But even then, you'll only get a letter of intent...no commitment.

Hey Tom, now a days, screen writers must cater to Chinese audience. So anything that has China in a positive light in American cinema, will be produced with ardent urgency and enthusiasm. Anything that offends Chinese sentiments, well, will be modified to fit Chinese sensibilities. But I say, fuck that, make your damn movie, write your damn script the way you wanna write it, don't kow tow to nobody when it comes to your art, your dream, or your craft. Anyways, Chinese people love me, and so Americans and the global community, I appeal to their sense and sensiblities, I'm their Jane Austen with grit.

What I 've learned tonight: Money talks, we must cater to the Chinese audience, if your money is not in place they won't read your screenplay, it is black or white, you need more than an A-list actor, it's not important to see the greatest films ever made...hmmmmmmmmm.

Tom. I sold 8 screenplays. Four were studio projects with directors attached. The other four were $1M to $5M range which I was able to attach actors an directors. The reason we couldn't get the studio projects off the ground was because you need a A-list actor attached or they won't even look at your project. Anytime you call an agent that reps an A-list actor the first thing they will ask you is if you have money in place. If the answer is no they will tell you to call back when you do. Maybe you have better connections than me but that has been my experience. As a result I decided to produce my own lower budget films and screw the studios.

Tom... experience is the best teacher. :) Try it and see what happens. Then report back.

Yeah Dan anytime you call the agent they will screen you out with that but maybe instead of talking to the suit that reps the actor you should talk to the actor themselves. Their first question will be what's the story, and what's my character, not do you have the money (that'll probably be the second one but hopefully by then you have their attention). That's why its better to network and meet actors through the craft and not cold calling on their agents door.

For all what Dan and Dave mention I began to write a certain little book with addresses and phone numbers of A-list actors who also work as producers or directors. Maybe this will help, haven't tried it yet but maybe this is a way to go or at least get a foot in any door. Don't know.

Hey Dan G Have u attended the American Film Market in Santa Monica, CA? It s like the used car lot for movies looking for distribution. Most of the buyers dont even speak English. They screen trailers and look at your movie posters for familar faces. Dolph Lungren, Ruger Hauer, Joe Magenta. They are not A List Actors but they get the job done. They sell your movies Internationally.

That is some script you consulted on if it reminded you of all those classics and the writer has just randomly created similar work!

Classics or just watching films of different eras are the best resources to rip off or pay homage(thats what Tarantino calls his scenes/characters). George Lucas studied Kurosawa. John Woo studied Sam Peckinpah. Study the past and make it your own.

Dave, Dan M, Elizabeth, thanks for the advice. I will definitely give all a try.

That's a pretty good list. Hope he follows your lead and watches at least one of these films.

You didn't include Chinatown?

Great movie. Great script.

I think that's right...not to use old movies in pitches...but it seems negligent to me that just because young scriptwriters haven't heard of these old movies (some are in even in black and white - that's a movie with no color) that I shouldn't reference them...it's like being a figurative painter without looking at Rembrandt, or being a music group without listening to the Beatles. Ignorance is not bliss. Anything that can help you write a terrific script is in play.

There is nothing wrong with suggesting watching some old movies. However, just because some people don’t watch them doesn’t mean they are ignorant. I don’t watch very many movies, old or new, but I can still can write pretty decent screenplay.

Everyone's process is different. There is no right or wrong. For me, being informed, watching movies - fiction and non-fiction - reading what directors say, reading reviews teaches me. I'm still learning. Screenwriting and directing is hard...the more I can learn about them, the better my performance will be. But, that's just me.

You are right there is no right or wrong way. Also nobody knows what process is going to work for someone. I don't read what directors say or read reviews but maybe that is because I am too busy working on my own projects. But that's just me.

I've only seen two of those movies. Years ago, when I first studied how to write a screenplay, two of the recommended films to watch were Casablanca and Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Bear in mind that some films are nothing like the original screenplays which were commissioned to be made. Producers/Directors and other writers re-write endlessly and quite often destroy the quality of what made them interested in the screenplay in the first place. Shane Black talks about this a lot in this month's Empire magazine as he reviews each of his films from a screenwriting perspective. Worth a read.

The great thing about older movies is that if people are still watching them and talking about them, it's clear that there is something timeless about them, they have proven to stand the test of time. Therefore they are worth examining big time. Nobody knows if Nightcrawler or Edge of Tomorrow are true classics - we'll have to wait 20 years to know for sure - but we know that Chinatown is a classic. And Cuckoo's Nest and Sierra Madre and everything else. I believe if you're not obsessive in your thirst to write a classic movie, you won't write a classic movie that people obsess about.

With regards to writing drama, that's a great list of films that every writer should be familiar with. There are probably another couple thousand films that could be added to that list as well. One commonality in all successful writers whose interviews I have read....they reference films in those interviews that span all eras of filmmaking. That doesn't mean all successful writers have to do that...I'm just saying they know a lot about writing, film and film history. Tom - just out of curiousity....you have had a long and stellar career as a film and television series writer....have any of the theatrically-released films or television films that you have written the screenplay for been your own spec scripts? Kudos to you...you're a Writing God.

Thanks for the nice words. My first spec sold and was made in to JUST YOU AND ME, KID. My second spec about flagpole sitters in the '30's was optioned to ABC, but not made. WORD OF MOUTH was a spec and was the first feature I directed. STIGMATA, my obituary film, was a spec and made by MGM. I've written over fifty original spec scripts (check my writing credits at TOMLAZARUS.COM). I'm now writing spec plays, one of which was produced in October, 2015. I have a reading of a spec play a week from Thursday. I believe in writing all the time...as I get better each time I write.

I remember seeing Space Odyssey as a child and it stayed with me for months. My dad was a very young single parent on his own with a small girl. We saw every movie, went at least once a week, not all of them were appropriate for children (in fact most were not) But I credit him for giving me those experiences and instilling a love for movies at an early age. Moonstruck is one of my all time favorite movies. I can appreciate Annie Hall for what it is, but I really can't stand Woody Allen. His movies just don't resonate with me.