Screenwriting : Find it before you work it. by Christian Pius

I find "finishing" is the key. I've found I can stay in "rewrite" mode for too long instead of getting out and trying to get the script sold!

@John. Yeah, very well. This should be the method for all writers, if you ask me. Its good to allow a story circulate around your mind system. There are lots of reality checks to your story like, asking and knowing about your characters. How can they be related to? How does the plot affect them? Your script can very much be only in its first draft to the time it will be sold, thanks to the various writing softwares available. Yeah, you so right...

@Stephen. Great! What motivates your rewriting? Is just an insecurity? Or you feel there is something quite missing in your story?

Christian, have you ever heard the quotes: "The essence of writing is rewriting," or "Writing is rewriting?" The rewrite is often more difficult. Often considered to be when the real work begins. When hard creative and editing decisions are made. So rewriting isn't so much about motivation or insecurity, but rather is a major part of the writing process as a whole. Now how each individual writer goes about their process is different. In my mind, there's a difference between rewriting and doing a final polish—checking for any possible missed typos, any last-minute small edits, etc. Some people may polish their script over and over and over before submitting. I kindly suggest you perhaps take a look at some books that highlight common practices and considerations when rewriting. Books like: "Your Screenplay Sucks!: 100 Ways to Make It Great" by William M. Akers, and "Rewrite: A Step-By-Step Guide to Strengthen Structure, Characters, and Drama in Your Screenplay" by Paul Chitlik. Another book that is absolutely fantastic, very insightful, and certainly helps with a rewrite when considering subtext, character, better dialogue/action, and evoking the desired response from your reader is: "Writing For Emotional Impact: Advanced Dramatic Techniques to Attract, Engage, and Fascinate the Reader from Beginning to End" by Karl Iglesias. :)

@Christian, it used to be based on what other people thought my work should be, but now it's mostly "edits" coz I tend to get story and character right but I "over write" stuff.

@Beth. Yeah, rewriting has a lot on its own for sure. But, it can be very well motivated by some reasons, not necessarily because there is an error or lack of standard in the body of work. I rewrote the second chapter of my prose because I changed the background of one of my major characters. I had felt the character should be someone else. The former description was really good but its what I have decided. Editing and rewriting are not very synonymous. Writers think they are. Editing is something about taking away elements in the work that is deemed unfit. The post is about meditating, planning, outlining ideas before they go into writing. One can achieve a smooth and successful writing without much hassel if proper research and readiness precedes Thank you for your wonderful suggestions and advice. I will check out those books.

@Stephen. Yeah I'm quite guilty of that too.

I do a draft to get it out of my head. Then I do a series of passes through it. The logic pass, does it make sense. The antagonist pass, they they well rounded and have depth. The dialogue pass The scene description pass The character description pass The transition pass Then I tinker with scenes to see if they are needed. Can I combine scenes to do two jobs at once etc. Then I do it again, until I realise I am just delaying the statement "it's done". Once you say that it is scary. While in draft you have the draft excuse. Once locked, you are saying "this is the best I can do".

Christian, you seem to have not understood the point. Anyway, you're welcome. I hope those books help you in some way. They are references that I use often. Good luck with your writing! ;)

Art is never finished, only abandoned. It's tough parenting and your screenplay hit 18 y.o.. Kick em out and wish em luck! Imagination + creativity = Mindful Innovation and Problem Solving Tools

I agree with Serafin. A script will never be completely "done". There just has to be a point where you're satisfied with it. (if you're a perfectionist this could be a real problem.) That's not to say that you can't revisit it from time to time to maybe modernize it or take a look from a new perspective but one of the biggest pitfalls with being a writer is becoming obsessed with making your material "perfect". Nothing is perfect in this world and your script isn't gonna be any different.

@ Angel Orona True, I don't struggle with obsession and perfection like I used too, but I still do. That massive ego of mine is now only, slightly massive. :P

@Beth. Thank you so much. I very much understood your point. Rewriting is part of the writing experience, yeah. My doubt is on your " rewriting isn't so much about motivation and insecurity", I was trying to also make a point that it is, very much. If I'm still not getting it, please make it clear. That's why we are here to learn from one another. "Iron sharpens an iron..." A scriptural saying.

Christian, just to add, or contribute, or perhaps throw a wrench (sorry, lol!) into your thread topic discussion about planning or preparation in writing a screenplay, I don't agree with your general assessments and assumptions about the process of writing as posted, and why writers may work a certain way or their reasons for doing so. Everyone has a different process and each process is no better than another. Personally, I consider the process more holistically rather than compartmentalized—the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Plus there are no guarantees in this wonderful, crazy thing called screenwriting. There is no one way. There are no absolutes. There isn't a standard for how many drafts it takes to make a "successful" script. Some people don't outline, some do. Some work quickly, some don't. The context of any given project and an individual's working process often determines what is best needed to reach the subjective notion of what creates a "successful" screenplay. We all get there in our own way. ;) However what is absolutely fantastic, is hearing/learning how other writers approach their writing. What their process or methodology entails. What works for them. What doesn't. Share tips, experience and personal knowledge. So with that, I look forward to others sharing their process. Thanks for starting this thread. Should be a great discussion. ;)

Writing is rewriting. They are part of each other, one and the same. Not a separate "experience," per se, but writing itself. Insecurity and/or motivation may be a whole different matter. If one is rewriting that may have absolutely nothing to do with second guessing oneself. It's about doing the work. Some call the first draft a "rough draft," then they dig in and begin the rewrite. I suspect you have your own definition of rewrite, Christian, but no need to get into semantics. Lol! Again, everyone has their own process. Anyway, I shared some book recommendations to offer further considerations/information about the language and concepts regarding the process of writing. :)

@Christian. As Beth said rewriting is part of the writing process. That's all rewriting is. It has nothing to do with motivation and insecurity. It usually takes a newer screenwriter more rewrites just to get their script up to industry standards because it is a learning process and it also takes a lot of practice before people get really good at it. When I write a screenplay, not always but normally I create a beat sheet and just start writing. After I am finished with the first run through I go back and do as many rewrites as I feel necessary. I think you really are clumping all screenwriters together and we aren't all the same and not all of us are insecure.

@Dan Guardino. It depends, what "industry standard" might be defined to you. If you are referring to the structure and build up of a story, yeah. Every writer should be mindful of that. My rewriting follows a different direction, as it is what I feel should or shouldnt be in my story. I very much write in a slow pace, I let ideas flow well in my head finding every logic and sense before I put them down. I do a lot of comparisms with known scripts. If its for an industry standard, I have no fears. I try not to make my works not much of a standard. I thrive for innovation. Hollywood could be so generic. Well, they don't want something new and they don't want something identical either.

Thank you @Beth. I very much wish to see more contributions on this topic. We are writers, its what we do. Everybody has a certain process or approach to writing. About drafts, I dont do a rough draft, it doesnt exist to me. I rarely have a second draft, I just have a draft, doing editing and stuff until the material proves itself ready. Rewriting comes when I'm tuned to changing an idea based on inspiration. This rarely happens because im into planning, dissecting, finalizing and outlining before I write. Its quite mechanical but that's my specialty. There are works that are written from rough drafts or draft #1 to other drafts, for the fact that the story had come in a glimpse without planning to write. Yeah, the down side is you might not have a specific direction and your work is prune to be changed to suit "standards"and formula.

Good luck to you, Christian. You sound like you're in the beginning of your writing career. :) My process is similar to Dan G's. I do a rough outline and start a first draft. I like to leave things open to discovery. My first drafts are pretty far along. But when done, I do as many rewrites as I feel necessary. Just a side note, to most screenwriters and in screenwriting the term "rewrite" does not mean "re-do" or "start over." It's all about writing, about fine-tuning. Or perhaps a writer is working with a team, a producer/director/exec/etc, or has sold a script or is hired, and is asked to do a rewrite. Most do not write a script in one pass, including the pros. Again, I wish you the best. Happy writing. :)

^^^^ Beth you are the best! :)

@Christian. What I meant by “industry standard” is the quality of writing. It can also refer to the “three acts structure” but that is not what I was referring to. If you want to write at a slow pace and it works for you that is fine. I don’t have the luxury of time and I don’t like to spend a lot of my time writing screenplays so I do what works for me. You seem to think rewriting has something to do with insecurity and it’s more about making sure the script works and is written as well as possible. Don’t assume you know why other people do what they do because you don’t know why they do what they do.

Beth is right when she says in screenwriting the term "rewrite" does not mean "re-do" or "start over." Also, all Spec Screenplays are considered a “First Draft” no matter how many times the script has been rewritten until it is optioned or sold.

@Dan G. I respect your writing methods and your use of beat sheets is part of the planning and outlining Im referring to. Yeah, rewriting doesn't mean start-over and its something that should be done to ensure a better screenplay. I am not assuming that I know why people do what they do and I am not imposing my writing methods on other writers. Im just trying to explain what really drives my rewriting. Its just a change, something I feel should be in my script, which can make it better or make it worse or make it something that appeals only to me. Writers have insecurities when they write. I have insecurities. Is that odd? You know, you are one of the best around here. I love and respect your contributions in the lounge discussions, I have learnt so much from them.

"You know, I started to write that script two years ago, and till today I'm still managing to get out of it." This is me explaining to a friend of mine he won't be "bragging" any time soon on a youtube comments section of a sci-fi TV series trailer... This to say, I don't think writing needs clocktiming. We're not in a Usain Bolt Vs Tyson Gay race about who the first is gonna hit the finish line. In my little experience of writing, my feeling is that it's an intimate relationship between you and your text. The same way you can't allow your badly raised child out to the violent world of scripts competititors (yeah, people are violently talented out there, this I can assure you of), the same you're the only one to know when he's ready to go... For instance, because a new TV series coming out converge with your script point of view or treat a similar subject the same way you did, you might need to change some things to your story, without deeply altering it. This is what happened to me, but without starting the whole story over and over, I change some details on my characters storylines and it felt quite different, as far as I could tell. Now I'm willing to share this script out to hear some critics, before another series comes and makes me start it over again (lol) In conclusion, @Christian, it's up to you to decide when to stop.

Christian. The only thing I disagree with you on is when you come out and say, “Writers have insecurities when they write.” That might be true when people first start out but I don’t believe that’s the case when it comes to seasoned screenwriters. I know I don't have any insecurities when I write.

So true, John!

Yeah, @Steven. Thank you for stopping by. Its up to me to decide only when its about to be produced or bought. ;)

True @Dan G. Newbies do have insecurities. I feel experts have but not to the extent of start ups. James Cameron for example, we know he is a god, but don't you think the long delay on his Avatar sequel is that of an insecurity? Avatar was incredibly smashing but the story was criticized. I feel he is just taking his time on the highly anticipated sequel(s)-- I may be wrong on this fact. Pardon me if I rephrase my statement, "Passionate writers do have insecurities". You are passionate, sir. You can be an exception.

Christian. I am not sure if you are joking or not but I know a few people in my little circle that know James Cameron and I can assure you he is not insecure about anything.

Vanar. I agree we are all different however I don't know how many producers would want to hire a screenwriter that doesn't even have confidence in their own ability to write a screenplay. However I do think confidence comes from knowing how to do something well.

@Dan G. Its not about a lack of confidence to write, any writer can write a screenplay, provided the rules are followed. Its just a lack of confidence of acceptance, staying relevant as a writer, appreciated not underrated, seeing through a vision without compromise. Everybody is different. Some are strong, they don't care about any of these. They move forward to accomplish. Some folks worry not because they will fail, but because they are reminded of what is ahead.

Hey Christian How many produced WGA Hollywood feature or TV Writers do you know, face to face, talked to about career advice?

Christian, all any one person really knows is their own experience. Assumptions, projections and blanket statements are reductionist at best. Screenwriting is complex and difficult, and there are no universal rules—it's not some "equation" to just follow. Perhaps broaden your own understanding and experience. Perhaps actually meet people who have far more experience than you. You may realize your assumptions are not necessarily true. ;)

@Dan Maxxx. None that I have seen. Well, I am really looking forward to. :) What is your point, please?

My point is you don't know what you're talking about. You seem like a good guy. Move. Get the F out of whatever you live and move to LA or NY. If you wanna talk Hollywood, you should be at least in Hollywood.

@Beth. I am not enacting or assuming that screenwriting is a pie. As the main point is, every writer is different, having diverse methods. I quite follow up my scripts with tactics, I do things step by step. That is me, its how I deal with life. Like every form of writing, screenwriting could be complex with no set rules. Yeah, thats how life is in general. Anybody can do it. Determination is all it takes. I have very much enjoyed and learnt from every advice on this lounge discussion. I am not the omega. I love professional advices, always tuned to learning, broadening my experiences.

True @Dan Maxx. Thank you. Am I talking about Hollywood? What im talking about is screenwriting. Lol... I find your bluntness pretty amusing. Its cool. Its cool. You are cool.

lol. This site, most writers here, the webinars, gurus, pitches are aimed at American Hollywood Industry. If you dont want to work with American based actors or Directors, American Television, or Los Angeles based Agents & Managers, you are writing for the wrong market. Stay local. Lots of great movies and Writers overseas. I watched a Bollywood Indian movie last week. They don't even use "save the cat" structure and it was awesome.

@Dan Maxxx. Yeah. Im here because I want to work in hollywood. Its a dream!

Christian, well... your comments don't quite come across that way. Lol! You seem to have formed some strong assumptions, and project those onto others. Many have just been trying to share some kind advice. Friendly suggestion... Perhaps look over the profiles of our members. Some members have 20+ years professional experience and share a lot of their knowledge. We have a very generous community here. I can't even begin to tell you how much I have learned and have gained by building relationships that started here on S32 and now are offline (other writers/execs/producers/directors). It's all about connections, not just determination. And as Dan M said, there's a huge market out there. Worldwide. Independent film. So think outside of "Hollywood" too. Keep your mind and your options wide open. Lol! Perhaps produce your own work some day. Anyhoo, moving on. Again, I wish you the best with all your endeavors! Cheers! :)

@DAn MaxXx, what if staying local is not an option?

@Dan MaxXx, besides, I want to pursue Hollywood.

April Forget it. Hollywood doesn't want you. Be a plumber. The world needs more plumbers..... but if you are serious, you will find a way to get to Hollywood. Write great shit. It's so simple it's hard as F**k. Write great original material and people with power will vouch for you and pay for your plane ticket. Hollywood accepts "unsolicited material." Great shit floats. See JK Rowling or the dude who wrote Miss Sloan. James Wan. Spike Lee. Tarantino. All broke folks who wrote great shit.

@Dan, thanks for the wonderful advice

I have to agree with Dan M – not everybody should be a screenwriter. There's no shame in being an accountant, a dentist, a carpenter, a lawyer (okay, some shame there). But it's true – the good (or at least the profitable) stuff rises to the top.

April. Hollywood sucks anyway but follow your dream.

@Dan Guardino, thanks for making me realized that.

@Vanar I'm thinking you have, or you're going to write a tremendous story my dude.

On, writing is rewriting: I think that the sentiment here is not that a writer needs to make X-amount of page 1 rewrites or scene over-hauls, but that a writer needs to be prepared to change things that aren't working - and let's be honest: after your first draft, you may only need to go back and alter a few lines of dialogue... or you may feel that a supporting character is dragging the script's pace too much and opt to cut that character out altogether. I just wrote (in the above post) how problem-solving is such a major aspect of a screenwriter's skillset, and once all your problems are solved, it comes down to this: is your script strong enough to stand out in the marketplace? The amount of rewrites has absolutely nothing to do with a great screenplay.

Thank you @Beth. Your contributions in this lounge topic have been uplifting. :) "Its all about connections, not just determination". I have been learning a lot here and I feel blessed. Hollywood fits my kind of creative mind. And yes, very much on a look out world wide. Lol. You know I am not imposing anything on anyone. I'm just driving a point of view.

@Vanar. You are right. Thank you. For many, life is not full of roses. They would have to rise from shackles to glory. Rising up is no cake, imagine what the obstacles would be like. Still there is a chance to achieve the unimaginable. This is, simply put; using weakness for strength. It is an advantage.

True @CD. You are on point. Yeah, that is the question. Not necessarily a worry, but something of great concern for every writer.