Filmmaking / Directing : An Experiment by Doug Nelson

It’s a great idea Doug, very educational and inspiring. Thanks for doing this - looking forward to see how it progresses. Only one thing - please don’t refer to amateurs as rank, we have all been there and although some might be hard work to deal with, at least they are helping you...Thanks! :)

Doug, I didn’t find the script engaging, the rules of your world (afterlife) were confusing. My big question : why is this story happening now? What has the hubby been doing all this time? Is he permanently stuck at cemetery? 60 years have passed since hubby’s death.

There is no character development for daughter or wife. Their scenes are quick and condensed in a half page I missed the point of daughter’s flashbacks, from 7 to 17 to 27. I don’t know whose point of view.

Visually it feels very static. Lots of standing around and talking. dialogue felt on the nose. Are there any other spirits walking in the background?

Would like to see a twist or a big whammy emotional moment in climax. Maybe the Maryann woman is the guy’s grand daughter?

Basically I wanted more family backstory and less of the woman talking in the cemetery.

The idea is a good one but the execution is a bit trite, wallows in pathos without relief (though it tries with the connection between the two characters) and fails to engage emotionally. There's no new spin on the idea, though a suicide and a heart attack victim are fallow ground for exploration: one without control over their death, one with. Then there's the nature of suicide to be underscored as in "I died naturally, but you pissed away your life."

The families of the departed, save the daughter, are universally unsympathetic, and they're spoken of as third parties. Mamet warns, "Any time two characters are talking about a third, the scene is a crock of shit."" The script would fly higher if the family's struggles were shown in brief. Everyone eventually moves on after the death of a loved one, but the families here are cold-hearted.

There is a theory in spiritual circles the departed, particularly those taken quickly, are bound to this plane until they can settle their lives. There's a goofy Abbott and Costello film, "The Times of Their Lives," that portrays this, though the plot point of clearing their names for treason is not applicable here. Why do these characters hang out on the Earthly plane? What do they need to reconcile?

A germ of a great idea lives here. Many people fear death, and the afterlife also fascinates. These are two elements that can possibly be brought to the fore. The suggestion is to expand the scope to the families instead of the two characters talking about them. Right now it's a cemetery-bound pity party that could be more. Even frank dialogue about the hopelessness (and selfishness) leading one to suicide from suicidal ideation would help.

"Mary Ann" is in the introduction but "Marry Ann" is in the character heading. Cemetery is misspelled. There are also several lapses like , "..but how it happened?" It should be "How did it happen." Doing a thorough edit will make those asked to read more open to a positive outlook about the script.

To answer the other posed question, it is a fast and easy read, with reservations due to the state of the language.

Good luck.

Dan M - your observations are correct but keep in mind that this is a 'training' script for a completely new & inexperienced cast and crew. (I don't have enough bodies to populate an entire cemetery.) It opens with action; then hopefully I can hold an audience for the next 6 or 7 minutes. With a few more pages, I can get a 'whammy' (hubby's wife is buried in the family plot and catches him foolin' around with this younger ghost - conflict!). Ghost fight! But I don't want to go that many pages.

I chimed in on the logline:

After a chance encounter at the cemetery where their bodies are buried, two spirits help each other move past the earthly tragedies that keep them from moving on to the afterlife.

After the read, a couple of thoughts from an amateur.

Some quick grammar/spelling. Probably want to change MARRY ANN to MARY ANN.

Page 2 Mary Ann dialogue:

I hope you don't mind me asking, but how it happened?

Should be "how did it happen?"

There were a few things I was confused about.

There is talk of "last time I saw him/her" and some ambiguous "I guess she/he got over me" but that seemed to clash a bit with "I don’t know which is worse, having to watch people get over you." It left me wondering what these spirits have been doing all this time. Did they get to watch the people who remained move on or did they have no view of them at all except when they visited the gravesite?

When Mary Ann whispers in the ear of the visiting working man, that introduced a new dynamic. The dead could speak to the living. That brought up a bunch of other questions about how often Mary Ann had spoken to the living and did Bret? She then talks to Jo but Jo isn't there like Bret is. That triggered more questions for me.

I was a little puzzled by the change in tone from "I'm not asking you" to "come dance with me". Dancing seems like it might be a big deal to Mary Ann. Maybe that's what interested Bret in coming over to talk to her? He saw a woman dancing among tombstones in a graveyard?

I think on page 7 Mary Ann's dialogue of "common" I think you meant "come on worm food".

Overall: I think there's promise in what you wrote. I liked the use of flashbacks to illustrate the backstory. If you're looking for suggestions, what I can think of is possibly heightening the emotion and possibly clearly defining how they are being held back. Meaning I guess I didn't see what the obstacles were that they faced or how they progressed past them. They talked about what happened and we saw what happened but it felt like backstory more than a description of an obstacle to overcome. It might be my own limitations in my comprehension and maybe me glossing over but the spirits seemed like they had no emotion at this point (maybe that was intended). They were matter of factly talking (again maybe that's my mistake so I could be totally off).

Again, I think there's promise in a story about two departed spirit's chance meeting at a cemetery they're interred in, introductions, backstory and the puzzle or obstacle they face and work together to overcome.

Due to my own limitations I suppose I just wasn't able to see what the obstacle was or how they overcame it.

As I always say, I'm an amateur so take my feedback/opinions with a grain of salt. I could be completely off base and wrong.

Another approach at the logline:

At the cemetery where their bodies are interred/buried, two spirits meet, reminisce about their past lives and tragedies, and help each other move on to the next life/afterlife.

Chad, thanx, I think you're right on. I struggled with a worthy logline - I think you hit it. You caught a typo - I'll fix it immediately. Wonderful comments.

Doug Nelson Thanks for the kind words. Good luck with the shoot!

I'd make the logline snappier... At the cemetery where their bodies are buried, two spirits reminisce about past lives and tragedies, helping each other move on to the afterlife.

Doug, a little more input on the logline >> In sharing life memories, including the hardships endured, two spirits tethered to their final resting place inspire each other to release their ghostly grip on the mortal coil/ go into the light/ ascend to a better place.<<.

It's an altogether different storyline, that alone will capture attention... you will definitely be able to keep the audience engaged for more than 6 to 7 minutes.

As for the script, you can tweak that on the fly according to your cast members' abilities.

Best wishes

Andi x

Doug Nelson remember that it's your colors you're showing.

Most of us are not worthy of a response from the OP. Or thanks, evidently.

Tony, really? - How sad you think so. Pam, re-read my post - do you see anyplace that I relate the script's readability with rank amature status. I used the term rank amateurs in reference to my crew's total lack of any film based knowledge whatsoever. I'm from the old school where that was a common use and non derogatory in any way, shape or form. Sometimes I find communication difficult with the contemporary snowflake crowd. I can't help it; that's just the way it is.

Hey, I got an email solicitation from S32 for, I kid you not, a webinar about not being a dick online. Take it.

Doug, "Our Time" held my attention. It even brought tears to my eyes. It was easy to read and follow. Loved it!

Waste of breath, PB.

I consistently see guys like Doug in NYC sitting alone on park benches complaining to squirrels about how everyone in the world, except them, is a moron. The squirrels only listen because they feed them stale peanuts shoplifted in 1978.

Come on, guys. Doug had a cool idea here: more experienced people sharing a few pages of script for less experienced people to check out. That's cool. I hope more people do it.

I liked it. I read it like two days ago, so I'm going on what I remember. I would have started it where Pamela suggested. I would have contained the locations to just the cemetery. Here's my reasoning for that: If it's written for a producer to practice producing, for a production designer to practice dressing a set, for an AD to practice running a set, for a director to practice directing, for a cast to practice acting, and for a crew to practice shooting, I'd rather spend more time shooting and less time loading/unloading the grip truck for location moves. Mostly though, you really want to set people up for success, not failure--especially if they're just starting out. I think a 1 day/1 location thing would probably be easier to pull off successfully in this scenario. And from a storytelling perspective, I'd have kept all the being dead stuff in the subtext.

That all being said, I didn't write it, and I'm not going to direct it. So it doesn't really matter what I think.

Yeah, the rank amateur comment probably rubbed some people the wrong way... lol Other than that though, I think it was pretty cool.

Thanks for sharing, Doug. Much appreciated. Just finished reading your short... I thought it read more like a stage play? Have you thought about approaching a local theatre group? I ask because our local community theatre does a night of performing short stage plays — it's pretty cool. Anyway, congrats on your short. I wish you the best with it! :)

Oh, to answer your question, Doug... I thought it is an easy read. Although I agree with Jacob's comments. I too suggest being dead could be more subtextual. Or perhaps that's the reveal at the end? ;)

Jacob & Beth - thanx for your kind words. This is just a modest project intended to provide a little experience to totally inexperienced folk who have expresses an interest in the filmmaking process. Posting my experiment here in a public forum tells me a great deal about fellow participants - a great learning experience. I wonder how many others are willing to share their writings publicly. (I suspect few but hopefully I'm wrong.)

Doug Nelson I share what I feel is ready for public consumption (getting it read and feedback is a challenge). Hint, hint my loglines on my profile...

Chad;

I read your Camp Noose Lake script. Basically it's a hard read with way to much setting exposition and a lot of unnecessary verbiage – e.g. why is it necessary that the island be in the center of the lake (is it important to the story that it be in the CENTER?) - couldn't it be simply a forested island? Your summer camp seems more like a Gulag with it's role calls & such. You have way to many characters and your primary characters names all run together. Your ending leaves the reader in limbo. Is Lieutenant Colombo/Cousteau about to appear to solved the crime? Has there been a crime? What's the theme? Does it have a theme? Teen suicide is a valid topic indeed and the short script is a marvelous medium to address such an issue.

My advice/pov: Learn to write tight and really bring the theme to the forefront. I'm sure that others will disagree. What does '\_(;)- /' mean?

Pamela—??? Someone's response to a screenplay is their own and is just as valid as anyone else's. The delivery of feedback that you may deem as "flogging" or "negative" may be pointing to possible issues with the script.

Chad: Just read Camp Noose and I concur with much of Doug's comments. My first thought: Have you ever been to a camp as a kid? No camp is like that... okay, maybe some military school camp, I would imagine, but most are not. Lol! Anyway, it just doesn't seem authentic to me? Plus the girls do not seem like girls? — sorry, I don't know how else to say it? Perhaps visit a YMCA camp. Talk to someone who is or was a camp counselor. I found '\_(;)- /' distracting. Plus why would a character draw that on a clipboard when a simple shrug would do? Like Doug, I think this is an important subject that needs to be addressed. Although I wasn't quite sure of the point of the short? Is it the horror and dread of suicide for those who find the victim? For those who are left behind? There also is not a sense of *why* this happened. When I read it I thought it was a set up for murder. She went to meet "Greg." So... my two cents, because this is a touchy and serious topic (one of my daughter's friends died by suicide just last year), I would suggest considering the point of the short because your audience will be looking for it. Is it: Could we have done something? Guilt? Was this girl bullied? Just a thought... to heighten the sense of horror and dread, and to draw us in faster, perhaps consider starting the script with the counselor looking through the binoculars and reacting to something off screen, and others reacting as well. Or start with people rushing towards something, terrified. Paddling frantically in that canoe. Jumping out. Rushing up the beach. But we, the readers, don't know what it is yet. Then go to the girls in the cabin... Anyway, overall, I think with a little more finesse, you've got a powerful short here. I hope that helps! :)

Another factor to consider when weighing various responses is if you have several people mentioning or commenting or pointing to the same issues. That typically makes comments worth considering and acting upon. :)

I thought it had a nostalgic feel. Like Camp Crystal Lake in Friday the 13th! Old school camp. And I was under the impression this is just the beginning? The first 10 pages of a feature?

Doug Nelson and Beth Fox Heisinger All very good suggestions and notes. Thank you very much. It was something I put together as a simple writing exercise over a weekend but as I was writing it, it definitely grew legs in my mind as more of a setup for a "Stand By Me" type feature narrative. It's not on my front burner right now but I intend to revisit it later and add the LEO who gets called and and then begin the "who dunnit" segment. My thought is that it would become evident very quickly that it wasn't a suicide which then turns the spotlight on everyone at the camp.

The only camps I had gone to were Boy Scout camps which are quite a bit different so I was just spitballin' on what camps were like in yesteryear (I guess I was wrong that they were more structured back then).

Thanks again for the feedback! It is much appreciated, valid and highlight items that indeed need to be addressed.

Thanks again!

And thanking peope for their efforts.

Ah, okay... that makes sense. Anyhoo, you're welcome, Chad. I'm glad that helped some. I too wasn't exactly sure if it was a short or not... I assumed it was because it's 8 pages and this thread is about a short. But... as I said, while reading, it did feel more like a murder. That's funny about Boy Scouts. I, of course, know nothing about Boy Scouts. Lol! Camps that have both boys and girls attending are indeed structured but are typically not overly "militant." Anyway, I can totally see this as a contained, twisting and turning thriller/drama. Intriguing! I wish you the best with your script. ;)

Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy! Snarky as we want? Oh boy, oh boy!

Right on! Power to the people. And other tired bromides.

Yeah Uncle Phil snarky enough. A fun and informative experiment - Thanx one & all for your participation.

Thank you for the read...very easy and visuals came clear too. Love the logline!

Doug Nelson how long before you finish rewrite and when do you plan to shoot?

I thought it read very well. It's also unique and interesting.

Dan M; I'm shooting some of the flashback scenes this weekend and the rewrites will be ongoing during shooting.

Awesome!

Hi Doug Nelson . I liked it and read through it and kept notes. I'm just giving you my train-of-thought while I read through it. First, it's a really touching fantasy. I've written a few features that are much like this genre. I did raise a few eyebrows in some sections that I wanted to throw at you - ignore if you want.

P. 2 -

* Mary Ann seemed to know Polly was Bret's daughter - I think MA should have asked "who was she to you?.." because that opens up more change of dialog between them. They are strangers, and it's assumed all sorts of dead people are in a cemetery - with all kinds of relationships. This seems like a missed opportunity for her to talk about some of the crazier relationships she's ran across in the place. Basically, It's "telegraphing" to the viewer when MA seems to "know" Polly is Bret's daughter.

*. "...If you know what I mean..." is not necessary IMO - it's HIS feeling he is describing. And maybe MA could throw out how it felt to her.

P.4

*. I'd take out the ring-in-her-nose line... It puts a buzz-kill on a sweet relationship you're conveying. Maybe just keep it at "...It's nice to see she got married...".

*. Bret throwing out: "What you did? You some sort of criminal or something?..."

Makes Bret sound not nice. Especially if they are going to go off waltzing in the end. I think there should be some sort of build-up to attraction and chemistry between them - not hostility.

P. 5

*. "Gee Wiz" is along the same point - he should by this time start to become more intimately drawn towards MA. "How awful" or some such I think would fit better. MA obviously feels attracted to Bret, but Bret seems to be "snarky". I'd try to build the relationship-bridge a little more on his side.

*. How did Mary Ann commit suicide in an Iron Lung? That was glossed over (IMHO)- It could have been a REALLY pivotal scene - maybe drawing out some elaborate power-fail scene, or some such.

P.7.

*. Bret has another harsh confrontation with MA that MA seems to just gloss over... Bret: "More like gossip, if you ask me....."

MA: "...So I’m not asking you.So I’m not asking you...."

...Yet within a page they are waltzing together - I would tone down their interactions to have more of an affection to each other.

Anyway - just my two cents... Like I said; It's a very nice short story and looks like a great one to film for a short. Good luck - let us know if you enter it somewhere.

Kevin, thanx for your comments. They will be considered during the rewrites.

Anything I can do to help Doug :-)