Screenwriting : Posting your pages online. Yes? No? by Paul Zeidman

I don't see the harm in it.

I don't really get what you mean when you said "you really have to love film making." I am not sure what that would have anything to do with posting pages of a screenplay on line and asking for opinions on it.

I don't see the point to it in here - good, bad or indifferent. I do post/exchange writings with a few professionals (working & retired) on a couple of 'by invitation only' forums but this is a public forum - free to all. That means that it attracts the hobbyist, the newbie, the beginning and the occasional pseudo intellectual among us. I don't mind posting a few pages in here for educational purposes (mine & yours) only but the resulting discussions soon drift off toward the land of the snide - so why bother? But I certainly don't see it as harmful (mostly pointless).

Yeah Laura but you can get bad feedback anywhere you go.

Laura. True if we were talking about an entire screenplay. All he is talking about is a few pages so you woudln't even know what the story was about or how they were going about telling it. If they wanted that kind of feedback they would have to post more than a few pages. However I never ask anyone for their opinion so I don't have to worry about getting harmful feedback.

Dan G - if I don't know what the story is about within a few pages - I'd give some negative feedback. I want to know from page 1 where the writer is trying to take me.

I think that many new screenwriters are on the hunt for ego pats rather than constructive feedback. Probably due mostly to their thin understanding of of the craft & creativity combined with a new writer's natural timidity. But what do I know?

Doug. I think you are probably right. That is one reason I never give feedback.

Sometimes a new writer doesn't know if their script reads well. For them it might help.

Well, Doug is right... at least for some. Lol! Perhaps a possible motivation to post is validation?—as Bill suggested. People seek validation of some sort, yes? I dunno? But ego can certainly play a part—on both sides, the writer and/or the person giving feedback. When someone refers to their screenplay as their “baby" I’m instantly not as interested in reading the work. That’s a red flag, at least for me—a bit too precious. Any time that I spend reading, considering the work, and writing some sort of constructive, just-my-general-thoughts feedback may fall on deaf ears or be misinterpreted and taken too personally. On the flip side, some reviewers seem to be more interested in imposing or showing their own views rather than trying to understand someone else’s creative intent, what that person is trying to achieve. So, again, I dunno? Objectivity can be challenging. Some writers do like an open, general public review and others prefer privacy, sticking with a few peers or pro connections whose opinions and knowledge is trusted. Personally, I prefer the latter, although I rarely seek it. Depends. ;)

Pamela, most do help here at Stage 32 as evident in this forum. I enjoy helping if, when, and where I can. ;)

Owen: that reminds me of the old joke.

Guy joins a monastery. A really tough monastery. He can only say two words every ten years. First ten years...he's doing monk things. Ten years pass. He goes into the head monk's office, and says "food cold!" He goes back out, does his monk things. Ten more years pass. He goes back into the head monk's office, and says "bed hard!" He goes back out, does his monk things. Ten more years pass. He goes back into the head monk's office, and says "I quit!"

Head monk looks at him and says "that doesn't surprise me - you've done nothing but complain ever since you got here."

The only people I want feedback from are people I want to work with, people I want to learn from, and people who do what I want to do. If you can make friends with people who fit those descriptions, that's great. If you can't, then you probably have to pay for it. Either way, it's probably more helpful than asking anyone and everyone on the internet for feedback. Especially when most of those people probably don't know much more about the craft or the industry than you do.

Sometimes, when people post their pages for feedback, or when they ask people to read their scripts, I don't think they really understand what it is that they're asking for. They are asking people to give up their time. This is time that they could be spending on their own writing, or on their own film making, or with their family, or with their friends, or doing whatever the hell else. This is time that they can't get back. This is a big deal. At least I think it is.

I think building friendships and relationships with people is a better way to go. I mean, I'd rather read 90 pages written by a friend than 10 pages written by a stranger who posted something in a Facebook group. (Maybe I'm a jerk. That's very possible.) And in my own situation, I'm sure that someone who genuinely knows me, and cares about me, and knows what they're talking about, would give me better feedback than a stranger who doesn't. This most definitely applies to scenarios when I'd be asking someone to give me THEIR time with no compensation in return.

Some aspiring screenwriters ask for feedback because they really want to improve their screenplay and write better screenplays. Then there are some that just want someone to read their screenplay and tell them how great it is. I quit reading other screenplays and giving feedback because I didn't want to waste my time dealing with those that are just seeking compliments. Personally I don't ever ask anyone to read any of my screenplays and give me feedback because I can read my screenplays myself and tell if they suck or not.

Pamela - Exchanging scripts and trading feedback involves a form of compensation, because no one involved is giving up their time for nothing in return. What I'm talking about is the "Hey, wanna read my script" posts I see online. If I remember correctly, Word Dancer on YouTube (she's great) said that you can learn a lot from script exchanges. I think she was referring to Francis Ford Coppola's website.

Even in this case though, I still want it to be with someone I want to work with, someone I want to learn from, or someone who does what I want to do. And preferably, someone with whom I am building a friendship. That seems to be a good way to do things, in both life and film making.

Jacob. I used to give aspiring screenwriters feedback on their screenplays for free. I did it because I wanted to help them and I never asked for anything in return. I am sure I am not the only one that did that sort of thing.

Dan - I'm sure you're not the only one. I am still a learning screenwriter/filmmaker, and people give me advice all the time. My point is that it shouldn't be expected, but sometimes it seems like it is. My other point is that when one blindly asks for feedback, there's a very good chance that they're not getting it from sources who are as knowledgeable and as helpful as you. That's pretty much all I was trying to say.

I do agree with that.

I agree and disagree. Hate it when I do that. All abilities of screenwriter need to see the the ascent. But I know that this can harm those who have worked hard to develop a very visual style already. That's why God created screenplay writing courses and books. It's a commitment for professionals and not so much for hobbyists.

Generally speaking. I'm a no for posting in public. I rarely seek peer feedback and only from vetted writers I trust.

Phil. I am the same but if someone is just starting out they can post a few pages to get some feedback and it might help them.

I think by the comment people make you can get an idea of their level of expertise. And of course you would better not depend only on such comments if you want to know where you stand, writing wise. This approach might work for some and not for others. The crucial thing is: discipline and keep writing. Is my opinion.

Many screenwriters start out like a deer in headlights. The feedback I received and constructive criticism I believe helped me tremendously in the beginning. With that being said, you have to be willing to take the hit and move on. I recently read through one of my original scripts I ever wrote and couldn't believe I actually wrote it. At that time, I thought it was fantastic. lol . If it's a completed script, a few pages should be okay since it should be copyrighted anyway.

... And the vast majority simply become road kill.

I have never gotten good feedback based on a few pages posted on forums. It's just not always a good idea because, as someone mentions, sometimes you get any Tom, Dick or Harry who think they know everything when they in fact have no idea.

Best advice I got here was from a professional who actually did coverage for a screenplay for me. It's better to have someone who definitely knows what they're doing read through it and give you feedback. Then make changes if they're necessary.

Random people are never the best option.

Anita. I am surprised you asked for feedback here and you got no answers. If you send it to me I will give it a read.

I love reading other's work. I take it seriously.

Anyone feel free to hit me up - but I'm currently swamped - Day job and seven scripts in various drafts. Don't expect fast turnaround but I will get to it. Ten pages is ideal with a blurb about what comes before and after the ten.

If anyone takes me up on it, PM me and expect a lot of questions. Only thing I ask is a return read.

@Dan and @Kevin, that's what makes this site so great, I love to see screenwriters helping fellow screenwriters :-)

Anita. Did you want me to just point out things that you might want to fix in the 15 pages or do you want me to read the screenplay. I used to be a Staff Writer and a Script Consultant at two different production companies so I do know how screenplays are supposed to be written.

I think I can tell what comments are valuable and what comments are just inexperienced people regurgitating what they have heard. A good comment is insightful and has context not just "I looked at page 75 and could find the blah blah blah".

One of the best comment I ever got was "He seems stupid. He should have seen that he didn't have a chance with her."

The eventual audience of your work (if you are writing as I do) will be people that just like story. So why not have them give you feedback.

I believe that the most useless comments come from people that believe that know what they are doing, rather than talking from experience. That experience can be the experience of watch film or writing film.

I think there is value in both. Comments can serve to sober you up, especially if it's from the same observations from many different persons. But for me networking is invaluable. The problem of course is networking is hard and takes time and effort and many simply don't have or choose not to have the time and effort to push this method.

What works for me is giving and helping and sharing. I come from Triggerstreet where reading and reviewing other people's work was mandatory to have your stuff looked at. I learned and continue to learn a lot by looking at other people's work because I get to fix my flaws without the burden of being too close to the script.

So my relationship with others becomes mutual beneficial, which i really love.

My experiences with feedback - both given and received - is learning how to a) accept/take it, b) learn from it, and c) use it. The feedback on my first screenplay was brutal...but on-point accurate. Hopefully I've learned from it.