Screenwriting : Can We Survive Without A Box? by Phillip E. Hardy, Prolifique

Yeah I got that email a little while ago - I don't think I care. I've submitted thru them in the past and I gone thru Film Freeway too. Now I don't really submit anything (or at least not much) to these modest little festivals that have popped up like toadstools after a spring rain. There are still a few worthy upper tier festivals out there and I can submit directly to them. So I really don't care if Withoutabox goes away or not.

RIP WAB. What a shocker. Over the years I've used both Film Freeway and WAB. On occasion, issues with both regarding announcements - no announcement or indication of status, and in several instances inaccurate announcement of status.

So what happens now to the automatic IMDB qualifying film festival?

Given that IMDB is also Amazon, how do the tea leaves read for that? Times like this makes me wish I wasn't a coffee addict.

I do hate to see WAB go. I prefer competition between major submission platforms. Guess Film Freeway's Gold is the way to go, right?

It's sad. To be honest, I mainly use Film Freeway and Coverfly these days. I believe the only festival that I had to use Without a Box was the Slamdance.

I've rarely used WOB. Agreed that Film Freeway is just faster with more options.

A bad user-interface and inconsistent notifications turned me off from them years ago. I wish their service worked better than it does because it could be a useful one. For what' it's worth, though, the vast majority of the major competitions that Hollywood cares about never used WOB.

The "First Mover-Second Shaker" theory plays out once again. From the article:

Withoutabox was an early platform for festival submissions, but then ran into some headwinds when upstart services began mimicking it and undercutting its submission prices, in some cases without charging.

That happens quite often in industries, and especially in the Internet world where cost to entry sometimes can be relatively inexpensive. I bet opening up a food truck costs more than starting a service like this.

RIP, Withoutaabox.

Never heard of them. I don’t know about freeway either. I block contest competition spam. It’s not my focus.

The problem I see in WAB moving out, is the elimination of competition. It has been around since I began writing (2013) and then FilmFreeway came into being. I now see others breaking in. I feel it important that screenwriters showcase their wares and I'd love to hear of alternatives. Although I sparingly use WAB now, I am saddened by the thought of it no longer being there.

I'm with you CJ. Screenwriters need to learn to take control of their own career. Stop wishing' and hoping that someone else will take care of it for 'em. That 'someone else' will just stick a straw into their wallet and suck 'em dry - it's called human nature.

CJ: Complaining and complaining...if it isn't about all the success stories generated for writers who win or place at the Austin screenwriting competition, it's about the fact that reputable script consultants charge writers for their time that helps make them better writers. If it isn't about reputable script consultants, it's about efficient and cost-effective services that expedite the process for writers to enter contests.

Man, bro...how about posting something positive and constructive today, and posting something to the Audrey Wells forum topic? You've written a lot about diversity...women in film...etc...in the past....a little something nice today might help cheer you up a bit, you know?

Write something positive....and the Writing Gods will smile down upon you. I'm just trying to help you, bro...just trying to help.

Pamela Bolinder have you ever had a job in Show Business? Name the parasitic operations ripping off screenwriters

Dan, parasitic operators abound in any and every field that I can think of - mortgage banking, insurance, medical, legal, on & on... It's not specific to show business. It's up to the individual to perform the due diligence necessary to avoid the bottom feeders. 'Show Business' is pretty unique in the eyes of many because it's so visual in the hungry eyes of the wannabes - so glamorous, so glorious, so much fame and wealth. Oh for the life on the red carpet between the red velvet ropes. You (I think) and I know better - it takes hard work, sweat, determination, grit, perseverance and a whole lot of other stuff to get there. And it's so fleeting.

Doug: so having said all that....maybe you...or the other guy....can give us...like a kind cost benefit analysis thingie for this specific product....you know...time spent versus time saved kinda thing...cost per unit....cost lost/cost gained via resource (you) time...externality factors....supporting data...you know...those types of things....

.....some of you guys think because you state "opinions" that...you're like exempt from constructive debate....based on facts...and anecdotal evidence...and user experiences....but you think because they're your "opinions"....that they're like gold...when they're more like copper....or greasy aluminum foil....and then you get all personally huffy-puffy and snarkey-snarkey because someone dares to suggest that....gasp.....your opinions are wrong...all things considered.

Look in the mirror guys....and use facts when you make your 'opinions"...and not your personal and biased-based angers....jeez....

....(and I'm not saying that's you, Doug...at least when you bad rap things...I read your previous statement here....and you usually say why, and the why is usually based on your own user experiences...even if other users might disagree with you...and even if at times you may appear to be objective or not....I'm just sayin'...)

Bill C - What 'specific product' are you referencing?

Doug: the specific product that this topic is about, and the specific product that you used to utilize.

Gustavo Freitas, me too! I'm guilty of only submitting to Slamdance through Withoutabox. By the way I think all should know you won at Oaxaca! Well done. It seems you didn't want to blow your own trumpet but I think your efforts should be acknowledged..

Thank you, Patricia!!!

Bill C - I'm just not following you. The topic of this thread is the demise of the WAB platform. It's a service, not a product and its customers are a multitude of film festivals that pay WAB to 'smooth flo' the film/script submission process for a fee (typically $5.00) paid by the festivals.

Gustavo - Congrats on your win.

Doug: Your're right, Doug. In the context of this discussion by WAB users, I should have used the word "service" when mentioning the WAB product. It is both, even though the user doesn't actually get to touch a tangible product. (Like the Microsoft bundle - a product we don't get to touch, and a service that we get to use.)

You're right, though, and I stand corrected. I must have had my old Product Manager had on when I wrote that line. Thanks, Doug.