Screenwriting : Pages by Ally Shina

Let’s start with the super obvious. You don’t have enough story.

You can.t make more story by just throwing obstacles at the person. That will feel like a video game. What part of their personality or character haven;t you examined? What part of the ‘central dramatic question’ remains unanswered or untested.

Have you truly set up the person in the first few pages so the reader feels a sense of surprise but understanding. You need more ingredients to turn your broth into a soup and then into a meal.

Sorry, I realised I didn’t offer a solution just more problems. What is the theme of your story? Not a word, but an idea, “a father and son can’t work together” for example. I have a story about a dreamer who has let his wife down their entire marriage. He is willing to die in a bombing rather than face her disappointment one more time, because he loves her (can someone die to save face, and does that really work?).

I had the same problem. Until I introduced a second character that is living the exact opposite and his existence gives the story balance and enough meat for a meal.

Is the character consistent? Not like introducing the “don’t call me chicken” in “Back to the future 3”. It needs to be there from the beginning. You can then look at it as life limiting and later impactful. I guess I am talking about a character flaw.

I’ll add more after I find my glasses and more comments.

The new character suggestion is a good one. I'll look into it.

I'd appreciate any more help if you have any to offer after finding your glasses.

Thank you Craig.

Another good thing to do is to go back and make sure that you are not giving your characters the easy solutions to the problems that they come up against. Not saying that it's what you've done, but I know that I sometimes realize I've given them an easier way out of conflict and by ramping up the conflict or making them work harder to overcome it, it not only adds pages but deepens the character and their journey.

BO CATLETT: There’s nothin’ to know. You have an idea, you write down what you wanna say. Then you get somebody to add in the commas and shit where they belong, if you aren’t positive yourself. Maybe fix up the spelling where you have some tricky words . . . although I’ve seen scripts where I know words weren’t spelled right and there was hardly any commas in it at all. So I don’t think it’s too important. Anyway, you come to the last page you write in ‘Fade out’ and that’s the end, you’re done.

CHILI: That’s all there is to it, huh?

BO CATLETT: That’s all.

You may be lacking a B story. That could take up at least 20 pages in a feature, maybe more. As stated by others, don’t write just to fill space. And don’t worry that the screenplay isn’t done after one draft. Just give yourself time to think about what’s already on the page then ask what you could write to deepen the audience’s relationship with the protagonist.

CJ, I have no idea what you mean.

I mean, I have a theme and then create plot points based on each theme.

Help me understand a little please...

Dan, you're funny. Epic.

Stephen, I checked that and my B story is so intertwined with the main story so the scenes kind of happen together which means less pages.

Nathan, that isn't something I've considered and I will most certainly try that thanks.

Hi Ally,

Usually a question along these lines is "my screenplay is 150 pages - how do I make it 100?" Your question has kinda spun that around, and I don't think I've ever seen a dilemma like yours in my years here.

I think it's accurate to say, though, that without actually reading your script, it is kinda hard to offer a credible suggestion that might really help you. If you feel that your story is currently complete, then you should have someone reputable give it a read. Maybe that person/persons could give you some valid insights that might make you say "you're right!".

Best fortunes in your creative endeavors, Ally!

Hi Ally,

Is it that your 2nd Act is too short (should be around 50% of your script)?

CJ, I understand what a theme and a plot point are... I just don't understand your question about both.

Dash, my 2nd act is about than 50% of the script. It's like 25 pages out of 52.

You're absolutely right Bill... It is usually that the script is too long and it needs to be compressed somehow. I have also never heard of anyone having a problem where they don't have enough pages. It's a very odd problem.

It's true that one might need to read the script to offer up some advice based on the story itself, but I hope that enough people give me enough technical advice to solve my obscure dilemma.

Thank you Bill.

CJ, now’s not the time to back away from “deep craft.” If you can logline 90 minutes worth of film, surely you can encapsulate theme without betraying its true meaning.

Oh now I get it CJ... the original question was very vague considering.

All very good questions which actually might be helpful. The only way to answer them is to sit down with my script, pen and paper.

Thank you.

What's wrong with compressing it into a really strong/tight short? A short is a whole lot cheaper to make and is a wonderful proof of concept. It's very good marketing tool that will most likely guide you to a longer version after others have viewed it. At 20 some pages, both The Phone Call and Curfew won Oscars. If you're an unknown/untested writer - that certainly wouldn't hurt.

Doug, there's no need. It will be a feature. I've gotten some very good advice from this thread. I haven't solved my problem yet but it looks promising. In fact, I'm looking at my script with a new pair of eyes altogether, who knows what might happen.

Thanks for your efforts.

Try going back and looking at your story structure as it pertains to the main character's motivation/goal. Try sequencing it out. It's a tedious process, but will lay out your story according to your main character's arc. The page count should come along naturally as opposed to being forced. Go online and try finding the screenplay for your favorite movie and study it, learn it's structure and character arcs. Keep it fun and the rest will come.

Please don’t stop asking heavy craft questions. That is exactly what this forum needs.

I think what CJ is talking about, are you answering the question posed by the theme. It sounds like theme is driving your plot. But is the theme question being resolved as well.

I have a few 50 page scripts that need re-themeing (look mum a new word), it give me enough material

to make a feature of theme.

Plus have you explored secondary characters and made them real. In my early scripts my secondary character were just dialogue delivery machines. You could have given their lines to anyone. Now my secondary characters are fully formed. That just comes with hours at the keyboard.

Craig, to be honest... I'd rather avoid the obstacles that cause me to ask the heavy craft questions. But I'm glad some good came from my unfortunate situation.

I totally understand what CJ meant now but thanks for your explanation.

Goodluck with your script rewrites.

Ally, reach out to me and let's talk. I believe you need a professional to read your script, first. It might make a better short than feature. Or maybe the story can't be fleshed out in 28 pages or less. But, as not only a writer-director, but a producer of 18 pictures, including seven shorts, one of which qualified for the Academy Awards, I do believe I can be helpful in this area. Why don't you reach out to me and let's see if you are interested in my services. :) GOD BLESS and STAY FRESH!!! ;)

Ally Shina I lay awake hoping for craft questions. Even debate questions are good. Whenever they appear we all learn. We give our opinions and even disagree. But it is learning opportunity.

It also means I don’t have to read through the miles of “in Hollywood” or “my friend the executive said..” comments. We need more craft questions.

Dan MaxXx THAT is my favorite scene in ALL OF MOVIES! (Get Shorty is my favorite film! I am really connected to it! ;) ) Wondering, if that came from the script, because it's slightly different than it is in the film. Yes, I know the film line-by-line. LOL! You've seen the pictures I've posted of Chili's shoes and jacket, I believe. In my collection. Perfect timing that you posted that! ;) GOD BLESS and STAY FRESH!!!

Ally - Sam B is a pretty good straight shootin' sortta guy (and he's a hell of a lot more reasonable than most). I recommend you take him up on his offer.

Thank You, Doug Nelson ! Much appreciated! GOD BLESS and STAY FRESH!

Thanks for the offer Sam but things are actually going well again with my script. It appears I overlooked some things and this thread stimulated me to look at my script differently. I made my characters overcome their obstacles too easy, my B story needed to be separated from the main story a little. CJ's questions put me in the story like never before. I'm looking at a new beat sheet for the story and it looks like I have an even better feature length film than before.

Thanks for offering your services but I won't be needing them after all. I will however consider your services in future because you come with a recommendation.

All the best.

Usual problem with short scripts is no Act 2.

You're so right Willam, I've realized that my 2nd Act is a major problem but I'm working on it.

Thank you.

William M that's a common problem with most FL and short scripts.