Producing : Do you believe in Genres? by Daren Allen Seifert

I like to be entertained when I watch a movie. I don't need a movie to do all my thinking for me but I'm not much interested in a Dionysian illusion. I very much believe in genres and "experimental" is a genre I enjoy.

Well obviously you want to be entertained. It's hard for me to be entertained when I can tell within the first 10 minutes of a film what the entire plot and ending is going to be though. I feel like when labeled as a certain genre it already tells you a large amount of what the film is. Maybe it's just me. I have always liked surprises. Also i'm glad you enjoy experimental films. I have a few under reel on my page if you'd like to watch.

Daren, That is the trick or talent of making a film... To Tell a story, let it unfold not painting too much of the picture so the viewer can figure for themselves, all while demonstrating how the story changes the Protagonist. IGE: Oliver Stone's "Platoon". Charlie Sheen is the "P" and goes from volunteer country boy to straight up Willem Defoe Killer. Due circumstances. War Movie yes, Genre, Action. You cannot know within the first 10 of the movie... Can You?

I, too, like surprises. What I don't like is pretension to art - art in quotes. I find too many experimental films to be pretentious. And I find surprises in films within specific genres. I have found it's not the label attached to a movie that tells you a large amount of what the film is, I find it's poor storytelling that tells you a large amount of what the film is. In my opinion you're painting genres with too broad a brush.

Simon in that regard you're correct. There are golden, shining, miracle gems that transcend the usual. There is so much blase, unoriginal films littering the theater these days though, and most of those the whole story unfolds within the first few minutes. No suspense, so surprise. I do see where you are coming from though. That is what separates the good from the bad from the ugly. I will continue to strive towards the experimental realm, and hope others do too. Hopefully together we can make them the norm and have another era of great films.

D Marcus I know exactly what you're talking about. I have went to showings where I have submitted a film to see why I didn't get it. Though many were better in my opinion some were so pretentious and "artistic" that I almost walked out. No one wants to watch blades of grass through a macro lens blow in the wind for 15 minutes. Though I was surprised to look around and see many people in awe. To me it's like those paintings you see with a full blank canvas and one black dot in the upper left corner in a prime art museum. I'm definitely not trying to push that type of art at all. I don't enjoy either extreme. You are most likely right in that I'm painting them with too broad a brush. That's why I came here to get other opinions. It honestly was just a random thought I had and thought it would be an interesting topic to chat about.

Thank you Lyse. I will definitely try to find my niche.

My only issue with the film genre system is it tends to categorise on content rather than tone.

An odd label is International Cinema, it tells you nothing other than you're most likely going to be reading subtitles. I'm not a fan of pigeon-holing but when I look at music it does really help me find music that's to my taste, in some ways I wish we had the same for movies but it is subject to a cultural effect which has to drive it.

Lyse I think I mean style more than tone. One genre which seems more style orientated is Spaghetti Western. I'm really struggling to describe what I mean, in music terms it's like the way we have rock, soft rock, heavy rock, prog rock, glam rock, metal, nu-metal, death-metal, dark-metal, metal-core etc. It's like the way someone might say they like Terry Gillam or Tarantino movies, because they like the way the story is delivered rather than the type of story it is.

Daren your reel also reminds me a bit of an old cartoon / stop animation I use to watch. In the beginning it used to start with some stuff like yours. It was called the Gumby and Pokey show. You should look it up, I think you will have found Carousel. (Logan's Run) But I am experienced as 'Jimmy' used to say.

@Simon I was addicted to Gumby when I was 3-4 so I am told by my cousin who used to baby sit me. :) I'm glad you watched my reel, it hasn't been viewed too many times. @Lyse Thank you for all the encouragement, it's great to hear. Sometimes it feels like i'm getting nowhere. @Leon I'm not being discouraged. I wouldn't say I try to make an "Art House" film. It's just the style I have created after my few years of making films. I don't follow genre's because I want to shape my own type of style. That's what my whole post was about. So if anything you encouraged me.

Very well put Leon. You are a wise man.

Can one be unique within a genre? Or does making a film within a specific genre automatically mean it cannot be unique?

I feel exactly the same about making music.

It's really about what your career goals are. If it's to make poetry and art, then do whatever you'd like. If it's to have a career in the film industry and make a LIVING as a filmmaker/screenwriter and do so in a mainstream way, then you need to know who your demographic and genre is and what you're writing. Because it's up to a marketing team to sell you. I understand wanting to do your art and break down barriers, but unfortunately, that's not realistic in the mainstream anymore. You can have an original idea or an original vision, but still know in what context that vision sells. And if you want representation, they need to know how to sell you. And if you can't tell them, then they can't tell anyone else. And you are therefore useless to them. I've never ever ever heard an agent say "He's great at Dyonisian Illusion." Those words have never come out of anyone's mouth. So, again, it really goes back to the question of - what kind of career do you want? Like I often say, this isn't called the artist colony - it's called the film business.

don't bother with genres, that's everyone else's problem )

It is absolutely not everyone else's problem. It is very much a writer's issue.

Agree from your perspective, but I just feel when you don't make it an issue, by not restricting yourself to genres, then once you have the finished product, the genre should pretty much define itself....and should your thus, chosen genre not 'fit-in' with what the industry standards, do you then re-categorise it, or leave it? It is why I feel you shouldn't make it your major concern.

I understand that way of doing it, but the issue is, different genres have different key elements or tropes or requirements that connect with readers, execs, and audiences. I'm not saying you can't have a mix-genre film - those often work well. But you have to know what genres you're writing so that you can properly set them up and set the tone and context for the reader in the first 10 pages. If you don't know what kind of movie you're writing, how would anyone else? And yes, if your chosen genre isn't sellable, then either you put it on a shelf until it is sellable, or you tweak it. Dramas are hard sells right now, but if you just increased the suspense and put in 3 more scenes where some action happens, suddenly it's a thriller and everyone wants it. Knowing your genre and demographic IS a writer's concern. It is a MAJOR concern. Writers who write blind of genre will always have major "HUH?" moments in their script.