Screenwriting : Skin of Steel by Rebecca Schauer

I'm no musician, but here's some noodling around with theories... Is there a difference in the investment between a screenplay and a performed interpretation of a musical work? Like: - Have you put significantly more time into a single screenplay than a single music piece? - Is there more of yourself in it? i.e., you're less able to be dispassionate about it because it comes from a deeper personal place? And is the criticism a musician receives more likely to be technical rather than creative in nature? - Is fixing the flaws in a musical performance easier than fixing the flaws in a screenplay (which may involve scrapping months of work and doing many more months of work)? I don't know the answers to these questions, but... Maybe it's not a matter of thin skin but simply a function of the relative levels of investment? That all said, I'm a writer, and I have a very thin skin. :)

How dare you write this, Rebecca! Who are you? Where are your blockbuster credits? You need to toughen up or you have no place in this industry! Stop smiling at me! STOP SMILING AT ME! I honestly don't know. I have theories, but I don't know. I don't know where the snarky writer attitude we develop comes from either. I used to think maybe it was because we put so much of ourselves into our work. Then I thought maybe it's because so many of us don't come from professional backgrounds where you learn to take criticism. Then I thought maybe it's the other way around, perhaps it's the struggle of handling something which is part art form. But now I think we're just all very scared. I know I am, I'm terrified. I'm terrified of how competitive the industry is, how subjective it is, and how serendipitous success needs to be. I'm constantly searching for validation. I'm desperate for approval. I lie in bed worrying I'm doing the wrong thing. I get up and put a brave face on and go to bed weak and full of chocolate. I have a thin facade of confidence which can be shattered by a single comment. Any thickness to my skin is there more so to stop the emotions getting out, because it certainly doesn't stop the paranoia getting in.

Interesting comparisons. I look at it like you are not being defensive to be stubborn but you are being defensive because you are passionate about your work. Now there are some people that are stubborn but not everyone. I was stubborn ( a little) when I first started last year. I didn't have the right mindset well, I did put I was not applying it correctly. I know I had a great concept but I it was not completely put together. So I threw myself in the lions den carelessly by send my query letter to an agent and that is where I got my first taste of brutal criticism in terms of screenwriting. I lost my cool and told that man what I thought and he told my why I won't succeed (And I didn't). But to close, I learned my lesson and criticism like that has motivated me and made me worlds better as a screenwriter. Thanks for sharing the topic, Rebecca.

Wow, this topic is certainly a Pandora's Box… as I read everyone's comments it's like I'm reliving every "no" I've ever heard in my life--be it from an exec, a college, a prom date… I've been thinking about your comment on the technical aspects of music vs. writing, Kerry. The time commitment is really the same in writing a screenplay and learning a massive concerto. However, thinking back to the times at which I've been most uncertain as a musician, I was upset because someone questioned what I was putting of MYSELF in the piece. You can tell me I'm sharp or flat or that I'll have better vibrato if I do this or that until the proverbial cows come home, but when someone questions whether or not I "GET" the piece, I'm more likely to take offense. The same seemed to be true when I gave that pitch this weekend. I became snarky and hostile because the comment was not technically-based, but rather that my project didn't seem to have a point. Ouch. With that said, the comment will make me an even better writer, because we writers seem to need that inner struggle more than anyone.

I think being defensive about your art really depends on the person and your personal feelings regarding your work. It seems more likely you are just more confident in your ability to perform something you've been doing for 20 years. When you are self-assured it makes taking criticism easier. As you write and get more experience under your belt, it'll probably be easier to receive criticism.

I remember my mentor Mr.Stivison said to me after receiving a horrible paper review for a local production. He said " Robert, it is best to understand you'll never be any good, knowing your rotten makes any review enjoyable."

Funny, I am from a writing and music (hip hop) background, but am trying to dive into the Classical and Opera world and I asked myself a similar question. :) I do get defensive about my work,both my music and writing. I sometimes take things personally, because I really want my work to reach the world. I know I am not the best at what I do, but I do feel like people can be inspired by my work and its message For me, I am perfectly fine with someone pointing out why whatever I did wasn't the best choice and how I can improve, but when someone tells me 'you're wrong' without advice or a reason, I get a bit frustrated. When someone questions my passion, I also get a bit defensive. I think with time and experience, the criticisms will roll off. .I'm rambling, but yes I think it is 'ok' to get defensive, but I do believe that we shouldn't be stubborn.

Rebecca, School is a place of learning. Pitching a screenplay is business. Critics in the business most often just want to hear themselves talk. So, when it is not going well, take a deep breath & let your inner self laugh reminding yourself that at least you are in the game, and when they are done babbling bid them goodbye and leave with a smile on your face. Please add me to your network, so I can watch your career grow. Alan

Oh, Rebecca, we feel your pain. I was pitching my sci-fi /thriller about a alien race that crash lands and wants to destroy earth. The guy I was pitching to ask me is this a comedy? " I see this as a comedy." It did bother me, but I have no one to blame but myself. Stephanie Palmer said, in her many years at MGM, she has heard many good stories with bad pitches get passed on and many bad stories with great pitches get sold. No matter how good your story is, if it is pitched poorly it will get passed on. As far as you being more thick skinned. If you play musical piece and 9 out of 10 say a part of it was flat, you kinda know, there is a standard or scale. But pitch a story, that you build from scratch, way more feeling are involved, that's your baby! I think as writers, not only do we have to know how to write a great story, but we MUST know how to sell one too. And as much as it hurts, I don't think we can ever say to the person we are pitching to "you just don't get it" (not saying you did) Is it okay to get defensive? No, it's not professional.

Writing a screenplay is an emotional experience, a story quite often that comes from somewhere deep within, so reacting defensively should not surprise at all, it stings because what you write is often personal - now, I suspect if you wrote your own original music, which also comes from somewhere deep within and personal, I also suspect your reaction to negative feedback may also be rather defensive - have you had feedback on any original music? How did you react? Well? I suspect, not, LOL.

She did refer to pitching, but I would presume after three years she would have a script, and I suspect the said script is what she was pitching - if not, three years is a long trek to pitching without a script - but the point I was trying to stress/express, feedback on "original" music is probably equally as daunting as an "original" screenplay, one would be defensive in both circumstances.

Interesting you say that Rebecca. I come from a novel writing background and I have found that people in the film industry are far more helpful. I have had screenwriters critique my work, producers and actors giving me encouragement and all round I have felt supported. Filmmaking is such a collaborative business that everyone at all levels wants to improve or add their own special value to the project. Getting defensive, although natural, just gets in the way; thank people for their input and move on, using what you can and let the rest go.

I think it has to do with you're playing other people's music all the time and with writing it's all your own creation.

Bullet points? Geez, Alle, you writing a novel, LOL? Where do I start? I don't put myself into my writing, I enter the world I am writing about, the characters actually come alive and talk to me and I love being emotionally involved in my writing world - Alle, Alle, Alle, you're not even close, it has nothing to do with being desperate for approval, but sure, we want people to like our work, why wouldn't, we? Gen X does not have issues, and it's not too late, that's an excuse - Gen Y are lovely people, but selfish, it's Me, Me, Me - I completely disagree I have to be emotionally detached from my script, what works for you may not necessarily work for me, and I know what works for me - Alle, you're getting carried away alluding to people as victims and you're not convincing as a "thriver" - let people follow their own destiny, make their own mistakes, learn their own lessons - NONE of us are writing about slipping on banana peels, that's your image - life is a maze, and we need to work our way through, it, as simple as that, kid.

My comment seems to have gotten erased, too… what's up with that? Anyway, I'll try to remember what I said: This was not intended to be a critique of writers, and my apologies to anyone who took it that way. I actually talked to a musician friend yesterday who said, "Of course musicians are defensive. Haven't you ever heard the term, 'brasshole?'" Someone mentioned professionalism earlier, and how we can lose track of this when we feel so convinced that we are right. I felt compelled to post because having written four screenplays, I admit I don't have all the answers. But honestly, that is why I'm here and why I hope everyone is here--to learn and gain perspective. That comes with negativity and rejection. Honestly, that pitch was the first of 5 to not land me a read, but I know this will happen MANY more times. Pitching and putting your project out there makes one vulnerable, but as artists, we are doing something that is vulnerable by nature. We thrive on wearing our hearts on our sleeves. If we don't, nobody will want to read anything we write. As for the idea that one doesn't feel as connected to a work that he or she didn't write, I'm curious how the actors out there feel about this.

It is okay Rebecca. I understood fully what you were talking about. Some comments just get overstated and taken out of context.

LOL at brasshole! I think the advantage of working in a professional environment for some time is it teaches you how to respond to what feels like negative criticism or bad direction with a degree of indifference. Some roles also teach you that feedback based drafting is progression and what may have seemed like a bad or unfair suggestion at the time can actually be a good one. Plus any experience in sales teaches you that a dead-end isn't so much a failure on your part than a failure in alignment at that time. The problem with writing is it doesn't always feel like business. Meetings can feel informal and potential clients like friends. There can be a casual tone and a lot of insincere kindness. As a result, I think we can become a little distanced to what mechanics and dynamics are really at play. If you go for a job interview at a corporation there is a cold, systematic and clinical process which you appreciate and accept is pretty much completely objective. You take any bad news on the chin, there's a mutual understanding that you were just not the best person for the job. But with writing it doesn't feel like that, it feels like you're approaching a bunch of people you think are cool, with your idea you think is cool, in the hope they'll think you and your idea are pretty damn cool. And when they objectively can't move forward with you it feels like the time the cool kids at school said you couldn't play with them or when you got turned down for a date. It feels like that sort of rejection, so our minds default to the amygdala and we get upset.

So well put, CJ. The irony is that the people who are drawn to this business are the ones who probably got so bent out of shape over social rejection in the first place! But this is what makes an artist: a lifetime of feeling and processing emotions, rather than covering them up.

I think you're onto something there actually, Rebecca. I hadn't considered that.

I WAS KIDDING, ALLE!

This is a psychotherapist dream thread.:-) I like your questions Rebecca. I believe writing and performing release a different set of endorphins, much like a great meal or great lovemaking may.

I always like to quote the story Sir Derek Jacobi the actor told me about reading reviews (see below) and having put on many of my own shows I never read reviews. However I do understand when you are pitching stuff it can be difficult... Classical Music has a certain amount of inflaxble truth, the notes, the dynamics, the pitches .. and interpretation is within a narrower field than in writing... where any rules there are have been broken many times. You have to stick to your guns, you have to have a circle of trusted people who can critique you in a way that is not from a place of damage. Good luck! http://loveyourcreativity.com/2014/01/16/sir-derek-jacobis-answer-to-me-...

Like you I tread both waters. The difference I believe between being a musician and being a screenwriter in relation to having a thick skin, you instantly know when you play the wrong note or chord. In screenwriting where is the transparency in knowing you've done something wrong or displeasing? Listening to music is a truly an emotional experience. Reading a screenplay is completely cerebral. A screenplay is similar to a medical textbook. Its meant to get to the point without too much extraneous information. The emotional connection comes from the performances and final presentation of the film. When somebody doesn't connect to your screenplay or pitch its normally vague as to why they don't connect with your screenplay. Because the disconnect isn't straight forward being defensive is a natural response. Ultimately its two different creative mediums. One you have direct control over a person's response, the other is interpreted through other people's interpretation of your material. Nobody likes rejection whether the reasons are valid or not.

Agreed, because music is performed in the moment the response you have within and the connection you make without is different. However, there seems to be a stereotype of classical musicians being perpetuated, that we are just robots performing someone else's work with no emotional input of our own. I know this is a screenwriting forum, but I urge everyone to think of it the way Robert did in his last post. By the way, I take back my original comment, because I guess I am a defensive musician!

Like many posters here, I am not a musician. I can barely whistle. That being said, regarding getting defensive about your writing can be a natural reaction, to defend what you are passionate about - your creation - but it is ultimately counterproductive. Whether the criticism comes from a peer, friend, exec, agent/manager or producer, you have to be open minded to change and not tied to your own vision as perfect. Film is a collaborative effort and very rarely is the criticism personal... and terming it "criticism" is a loaded term as well. Perhaps it's a "suggestion", "comment" or "idea" that might make your script better? (If it is a personal attack, then by all means, you have a right to get upset.) Another thing to consider is that writing is almost exclusively a solo effort, at least initially, unless you write with a good partner -- although those efforts can also be filled with tension if you’re not on the same page. Once your personal draft is completed (again, generally solo), then dozens of people, none of whom has spent even a fraction of time you have on it, comes in to offer advice, suggestions and criticisms – and that can be tough to swallow sometimes. Everyone from the casting director, to the actors, cinematographer, editor, development & production execs, producers, etc. all like to give input and feel like they have a stake in the final product . Music seems much more collaborative. Songs are often written by multiple musicians, so the jump to performance, with multiple performers working in sync, might be much easier to take. Also, with music practice seems like it’s something that is done constantly as musicians constantly strive to improve BEFORE they jump into the professional performance stage. Writing seems to be one of those things that many people feel like they are at or near a professional level simply because they can type (not saying you yourself fall into this category, but I see it a lot), so a lot of writers feel put out when they get comments or criticism. I do think you'll find one of the greatest skills a writer can have is to be gracious taking notes/suggestions/criticism and having the ability to take and utilize those that are genuinely helpful and the ability to deflect those ideas that are not - while maintaining a good working relationship with those giving the notes. Just my 2 cents.

I think it is like this because in music the rules are clearer and stricter. There are clear notions of harmony and rhythm, and musicians understand that. Creative writing is a broad field of imagination that permits absolutely everything. There are certain rules, but writers are encouraged to break them. They feel bolder and more talented when they do so. Thus, writers are very protective of their works because they are the result of their own very unique creative genius. Another reason, in my opinion, is that music can be heard immediately, and if there is something wrong with it, it is easy to perceive it. Writers, especially beginning ones, often get blind about their work - for lack of experience, or for lack of critical thinking. Many don't even read their pages out loud to realize how their words sound, and how much realism, wit, and originality is actually there. When writers don't see the faults, they get defensive. It takes years of experience to become a great critic of your own work and, therefore, a great writer.

Hmmm, being someone who enjoys writing and playing without structure I would not diminish either craft. It requires skill to do anything well. That being said I don't believe you can compare the two properly without specific. On topic if someone " attacks" you, you get to be " defensive" it's only human. I feel like some of the " writers" here are downplaying the craftsmanship to song writing and pidgeon whole the craft to playing other peoples creations. There are people who write and play original music and it is not any less creative then writing a script. Hate to be long winded so..;-)

Interesting. There is a lot of defensive behaviour not just for personal ideas, but for particular philosophies (save the cat or not save the cat, for instance,), structure, format , whether you should hire someone to look at your script, how you make your money and whether you're a real screenwriter. There seems to be a lot of one up manship occasionally as well - my idea of how things is done is better than your's because... I've done this and this and that and therefore am better than you. It's a lot of projection. Unlike classical music where the artist can get hired and perform in front of a lot of people and get validation this way (and there's also a clear grading of development of skills) it's a whole lot harder for a screenwriter to be recognised for doing any work. And I bet they've heard a lot of people tell them they're not doing a real job or that their ideas aren't valid, or this doesn't sell so why even bother. When the idea itself may be quite personal - subconsciously - you might not know why you picked this story to dwell on for so long. So for people to be dismissive of the idea within an exceptionally short space of time can be painful. But yeah you have to learn they're not 'dismissing' you. You have to divorce yourself from the idea - at a certain point you are the salesman and this is the product, and they just might not be the right customer for you. (Kind of like seeing a job interview as a two way street.)

@ Alle, when I hear someone say, "I've been described by A-listers as Hitchcock, Kubrick, edging on a Spielberg with the passion of Lucas and the talents (excluding art!) of Cameron ... just to name a few." it peaks my interest. Being a huge fan of Hitchcock, Kubrick, older Spielberg work (honestly, is there any movie more emotional than Saving Private Ryan), and who doesn't love some Cameron "Aliens" & "Terminator 2" on a Sunday afternoon?.. I would love to see your work, it sounds right up my alley.

Alle, that's crazy about the police raid... must be an interesting project. Also really cool that you're in a position to just make things and have people in Hollywood that are willing to distribute it, I'm still in the finding funding realm. But, if I were to try and see some of your work would I find it in Theaters... at Bestbuy? ... Redbox? ... Vimeo or Youtube?

What a specific ban;-) in an unrelated note I would like to make a toast to those people who can write for ten minutes and say nothing at all;-) and god bless politicians, wait what was this thread about?

It's Showbiz, Rebecca! Everyone is hyper sensitive, egotistical and vain! :)

I am very very offended by the comment if I weren't so good at what I do and incredibly good looking I' d.....I' d.....wait what was the question Marie?

It's like listening to music, many like to listen to this instead of that, and they'll find reasons why they hate listening to it.In writing it's the same.Everyone has a different way of reading material.Writing a story and developing it, your story is your baby and you're the parent.You do get very protective.

You must have passion for what you write and you must trust your instincts. In these two instances it is fine to be inwardly defensive otherwise why write at all. As a rule, we need to be able to look at criticism as an attempt to help us so it is best to never to show your defensiveness as it may be seen as closed minded or as a trait that goes against a collaborative effort. However, in my experience, which includes a book load of criticism of my writing, I find a large percentage of them are constructive. I've learned to look at criticism to find the core reason for it and find a creative way to address it and for the most part was happy I did.

DEar Rebecca, Dan is corect. You must have a passion for what you write; however, the story must have al the emotions of real life, of family, friends, love, hate, laughter, tears, anguish and dispair due to lost dreams, yet posses a powerful message of where theore's faith and hope, there's life. If interested, we can share you such a play ready for the screen entitled A SHADOW OF A TREE. Please contact Carmine & Dorayne at cdpenbrush@aol.com Have a Great Day and a better tomorrow!!!