Anything Goes : Casting Director workshops by Jaimee Listokin

It has sort of devolved to that, hasn't it ? - 10 years ago they were different. In L.A. now it's a joke... but the fact is it's based on supply and demand, and if you are selective about the CDs, at least they put a name with a face. Tough business... I sympathize with the sentiment

Thanks for responding to the post. Times are very different. For one, it is kind of crazy that they charge since most actors are struggling to make ends meet. In addition, If sent my resume and head shot to a CD they would probably never get back to me, but if I went to a workshop and paid they would talk to me. Kind of ridiculous! They use to charge to join background agencies and stopped doing that because it was crazy to charge someone to work. The same thing needs to happen with CD workshops.

That is one of the reasons we started the American Performance Alliance to provide free professional workshops, seminars, classes etc. We never charge for anything and I think it is time for actors to stop paying people for what some people are calling casting opportunities. Actors should never pay to play or to audition. A workshop should be a workshop and not a job interview if you are paying.

This has been an ongoing debate for years. If you are a new or unestablished actor, paying for workshops is one of the few things an actor can do to meet a CD and have their work seen. I wouldn't look at it as paying for an interview, it's more like marketing or advertising yourself. Does it suck? of course. But doctors and lawyers have to pay money to go to school for many years before they can apply for a job and work. Shouldn't an actor (at least a serious one) have to pay something for their opportunities? I have paid for many of those workshops and got little in return, but I have also seen some do very well from them. I think its a necessary evil. And not to sound mean, but try being a writer, director or producer. At least you can pay 30 bucks to get in front of a real working CD that can help you. Us writers, directors and producers? Just imagine what we have to go thru to get a 100 page script seen that we've been slaving away at/working on. Good luck!

It's all about what is really being offered. You don't go to medical school anticipating that the school is going to hire you to do surgery. You are going to finish the program, be qualified, and then someone else is going to hire you. The actor should pay his/her dues, but it should be in the same manner as a lawyer or doctor. It should happen In a classroom who's primary purpose is to train the student. I find it very hard to believe that the CD is really there to train the student. If they are then that's a great value but common sense says they didn't use to do it, what makes them do it now? Could it be as simple as it looks, just another form of revenue? Don't get me wrong, I think there are honest people who want to help the actor and if you find such a creature you should take them up on their offer immediately and enthusiastically, but do your homework. Is there evidence that anyone is being cast, talk to people who have been to workshop offered by this CD. Was it worth the money even if they were not cast. So everyone should do their homework and let us know if you find that wonderful opportunity.

Ryan, CD workshops are not interviews. They are workshops. They are a place where a group of actors pay an industry professional to watch their work and provide feedback on it. Sometimes the industry professional takes a liking to an actor or their work, which leads to getting called into auditions for paying jobs, which that industry professional is involved in. Paying for these workshops can be looked at as part of the actors paying their dues. I understand the frustrations actors have paying for these (Ive been there), but it is necessary for many actors to pay for these if they want to get there work in front of the "right' people. No different than what writer, producers and directors do, but in different ways. Just look at this website. it costs 42 bucks to submit scripts. Same thing my friend. if you're a writer and want an executive at Warner Bros to look at your idea and you don't know anyone over there, get out your wallet ;). Cheers!

Like I said, it's all about the facts. Show me a workshop that has value and I will tell every actor I know to attend if they can afford it. The fact that something is what it is does not mean it should stay that way. In my day I did not have to pay to see a CD. Agents in LA used to force actors to pay for headshots that they got a piece of, and everyone was accepting it. Now it's illegal. Things can change, and they can change back. Great workshop are well worth it, and I will always support and attend them, but to accept that we have no choice is to accept that we should believe what we have no evidence of. I repeat what I said. Everyone must do their homework before attending any workshop they are thinking of spending limited resources on. In this day of social media it is not hard to find out what most people think about a workshop or a specific CD. Discount the idiots and believe the majority and you should be able to get a good picture of the value of any workshop. If you have the money to experiment so go for it and let us know how it works out.

Value comes in many ways, shapes and forms. One might attend a CD workshop and end up meeting their future wife or husband or network with another actor that could lead to job offers down the line or simply an actor can just learn some useful things about their craft. It's all how ya look at things ;). It sounds to me like you personally have a bad taste for these workshops because you may not have got called in for auditions from CDs or feel you got anything useful out of them. They don't work for everyone, but many actors will tell you differently and have actually booked roles from them and got other forms of value out of them.

I always look at a career from a business standpoint. If I wanted to meet my wife I would not have to pay someone to do so. That has nothing to do with a career. If people are looking for that then this is not the place to talk about it. I don't go to CD workshops today because I don't have the need, and when I was younger the process did not exist so I have no personal animosity towards these workshops. I have said three times now that actors should simply do there homework. It sounds like you have a vested interest in getting actors to a CD workshop. That's fine if you do, but I have taught thousands of actors for more than 30 years which gives me a unique insight into how often these workshops have real value. I can say with some certainty that it is very seldom. The overwhelming sentiment I hear from my students is that most of the time it is a waste of time and money. So for the last time I simply say to every actor that resources are tight, and they have to make intelligent decisions how to use them. I would prefer that absent specific proven value the money and time be spent in other training or networking events. It's just common sense. If you know that a particular CD workshop has real value then certainly you should attend if you can afford it.

It is EXACTLY like going on a job interview that you have to pay for. And they are technically ILLEGAL. Which is why if you notice now, the website will say, "this not an audition." But upon further inquiry will say, "this is an opportunity for you to showcase your stuff." Which is of course an audition. ABC news did an expose on casting director workshops. And they are a scam, and studios frown on them, but yes some people like them. So as long as there are suckers willing to pony up the money-like any scam they will continue. But you can report these casting directors to SAG and CSA. And if you did take a "workshop" and you have their phone number, then call and call and call until they book you.

Also, keep in mind:casting directors are NOT actors, they know nothing about acting, nor do they do they actual casting. They just submit you. So how can a casting director possibly be in the position to give you any kind of feedback on your actual talent/skills? Save your money for an acting coach.

It is not like going on a job interview at all. Actors are simply paying for an opportunity to perform in front of an industry professional. No one claims any guarantees to actors for future work, just an opportunity to show ur talent to a CD of ur picking. I am not encouraging anyone to go, just saying its one of the very few ways an actor has to show their work to CDs.

Good luck Suzanne.

The fact that the paid workshop is, as you say "one of the very few ways an actor has to show their work to CDs" is the problem. Let's find ways to fix that or other alternatives.

It's only a problem for a certain population, Ryan. There's plenty of actors that have received opportunities and learned a great deal about their craft and the business of acting by attending those workshops. Bottom line: If you don't like them or don't need them, don't go.

When they control the industry it is not enough to say just don't go. We need to improve the lot for actors. Actors need to take every opportunity, in a respectful way, to critique any and every CD workshop they attend. We need to establish a place actors can and should discuss these workshops so actors can make informed decisions. In a small way that takes place on forums and even on this site but we need a more obvious and available way to search for qualified and productive workshops. We need to lobby for union and legal protections that keep the actors needs first and foremost and increase their rights and privileges not just surrender to those who see the actor as a cash cow in a horrible economy. CDs are people like everyone else and there are good ones and bad ones but overall the industry needs a watchdog. I will always fight for professional behavior by CDs and actors alike. We should never just accept the status quo because others tell us there is no choice. I encourage actors to respond and tell us about their experience with these workshops but not to denigrate anyone. To quote Joe Friday from an old television show "Just the facts ma'am."

Ryan, you are fighting a battle with an imaginary opponent. You have the mindset that most CDs are a problem and take advantage of the majority of actors. Trust me, they do not. The CDs that have been in the business for years and are still working CDs have gotten to where they are partly because they have helped out actors in those years and continue to bring new and undiscovered talent to producers and directors. It sounds to me that the real problem you have is you don't think CDs should charge for their time. And if this is the case, I am sorry, but you're wrong. A working CD spends upwards of 12 hours in a day casting projects in a studio or their office and then they have to drive at night and/or weekends to these workshops. Sure they do it for pay, but trust me, they don't have to and they have more than enough actors in their files to cast from already. They do these workshops for a few reasons. One, to make extra money. Two, to meet new faces and see new people perform as they don't have time during their normal weekly schedules to do so and three, to provide opportunities to actors that don't have agents or managers to show them their work. You make these workshops out to be forced or part of an aspiring actors curriculum. I am sorry, but your views are completely wrong in my opinion and you are suggesting actors to waste their time trying to think up ways to step around necessary marketing tools. Like anything in life Ryan, you get what you pay for. Acting is no different and shouldn't be. Good luck to you and your up hill battles.

I am not fighting any battle you simply refuse to understand that all I am asking for is that actors do their homework. How can you possibly disagree that an actor should know what he or she is getting into. CDs are not in the business of selling actors their services they should be casting. Why do you think agents can no longer legally recommend a photographer in many states? It's the same idea and it's called conflict of interest. I have not condemned nor attacked anyone. That is your bias. Do you really want actors to just accept that everyone advertising a workshop is ethical, talented, and wants to help them? Should they put down hundreds of dollars and never ask a question? It seems like you think actors should just be sheep and never look out for themselves. How can you fight a suggestion that actors be intelligent, self-informed, and work towards an improvement in the industry. I have said these workshops could be valuable but you have to do your homework. So the only person fighting any battle is you because you will not accept simple common sense and want actors just to surrender. I will always do my own research and never depend on someone trying to sell me services that has a conflict. If they turn out to be telling the truth and valuable that's wonderful and I will spread the news. In fact I have decided to post in the next few days a site where actors can review CD workshops, agents, coaches, schools, etc. It will be totally free of course. Should be interesting to see what the general consensus is.

Ryan, you keep missing the point and Im tired of communicating it. I never said actors shouldnt do their homework. All I said were workshops are useful, valuable (for many reasons) and necessary. Best of luck to you!

And I agreed in every posting. So we will just have to agree to agree.

No It is paying to go on a job interview? Why can't I just send my resume and head shot into the CD of my choice and be called into audition instead of paying?

Well said Suzanne!

Even the "legit" CD's Big ones are getting in on the action. Some are from Big,well known agencies. It is so much different than years ago. Today you can submit yourself online. and represent yourself. You create your own stuff and because of all the changes. It is much more difficult. Take classes, get an acting coach, represent yourself, create your own projects!

So most of the advices I've read here comes to one thing. TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT. Is that it? So Jaimee wants to become actress, she pays herself for classes, acting coach, head shots, representation... all nine yards. After which she is OBLIGATED to pay for the job interview which in every normal environment is ILLEGAL and in most of the cases punishable by law, the CD will most likely pick a few candidates, offer them additional CONSULTATIONS, paid of course, how and where these consultations will take place, I'll leave that to your imagination and when she finally makes it all the way through, if she makes it at all, he will give her a small role in some B production movie or lower on the scale, then the agent will magically appear out of nowhere demanding his share, the CD will probably reduce her acting fee in advance, hey don't forget the IRS, never forget them. Is this how thing are? Jaimee. Take my advice, I used to be a cop for 13 years. Talk to a lawyer, ask is any of this even remotely legal, go to FBI's web site and ask someone to talk to. First YES you get, report this LOW LIFE and let's see which studio will ever hire him again, I doubt they will attach all this bad publicity to their name. I'm not an actor but I could probably take down half of today's so called actors with my eyes closed. I hope you will get any part or role soon but WE HAVE TO PAY TO WORK NOW. Personally, not now not ever. Good luck Jaimee!

Thank you Niksa. I know all this. Until someone higher up actually says or does something they will continue to hold workshops. This is why I represent myself.

The simple fact is that actors getting cast from CD workshops is such a small part of the professional casting reality that no actor should ever worry about attending these. If you have money to possibly throw away then I guess you can. If the workshop is pure garbage then, without damaging yourself, let your fellow actors and those you work with know not to attend. If the word gets around they can not make money and they will fade away. There will always be want-to-be actors looking for the quick fix or instant fame and they will always fail. The secret to success is not workshops. It is branding, and branding only happens when you have something to sell to those who will buy. It's far more important that you are training every week and taking every opportunity to perform both on stage and film. Hollywood comes to a branded actor, you can't go to it. Just think about the last time you wanted to purchase something, did it come to you or did you have to go get it. Get branded and Hollywood will come to you.

Good point Ryan, again I'm not an actor but it makes sense about BRAND part but the problem here is something else. A casting director who uses some legal LOOPS and charges people for something he most probably charges studios he work for, to find a potential actor/actress for upcoming movie next week or next month is ILLEGAL or FRAUD. This entire MOVIE BUSINESS is losing control. It's only my personal point of view, don't get me wrong but without actors there is no CD, Producers, Directors or anyone else who works in the industry and take a step back, without writers there wouldn't be none of the above. In this entire so called business situation, writers and actors (Who are the Brain, Spine and Muscle in all this) make nothing, everybody else take their share, writers get ripped-off, actors get used (in more ways than one) unless they are related to a producer or the director and that's it. Than again, what exactly this young lady is going to learn from this CD in this so called WORKSHOP. Who are these people anyway, ex or washed-out actors, what is it that they can teach her about acting. How much do they charge for this BIG advice. Is it $20 per hour donation so they wouldn't have to pay taxes, do they give you a receipt, is there even a paperwork for this WORKSHOP or SWEATSHOP if you prefer. Let me guess, they ask you to pay through PAYPAL account, which by the way is impossible to trace. I wish I could give other forms of support to this young lady but I can only do it by supporting her like this, for now anyway.

No one can use you if you don't let yourself be used. I agree that the industry has become very greedy and unprofessional but they still need the actor and if the actor is valuable to them they will cast them. Actors just have to put all their energy into being a valuable commodity that they just can't turn away. The real professionals are not hosting these workshops so there are still many professional opportunities available to the well trained and committed actor. There are also many alternatives to the costly and often worthless workshops. I think it's great that people can talk openly about these things now we have to share suggestions for alternatives.

Again, I agree. with you, there are many professionals in the movie industry but because of these WORKSHOP things, people will think of them the wrong way. In last month webinar RB was asked this very same question by a young man. Should I pay for an audition, I guess he was asked to, how, he didn't say and RB told him NEVER, EVER... Nothing good can come out of this if you pay for something which you don't have to. You basically looking for work and the employer asks to pay for an interview. The professionals who do know about these workshops should start talking about it first and then when the complaints starts to pile up regarding all this, the studios will simply have no choice but to kick these CD's out. All this has bigger chance to become a Movie script than the reality.

I agree and someone complained regarding paying for background acting so this will eventually catch on as well. Maybe if a group petitions against it something can be done.

In addition, a lot of these workshops they are trying to pass off as a class and yes a lot prefer you use paypal.

Ryan, a lot of the casting agencies are conducting workshops and some are well known ones. It is very difficult to just submit yourself to an agent. They will not look at you. Most want a referral and unfortunately, I am not related to Steven Speilberg or any producer or director. This is why at the moment I represent myself. I refuse to pay for a workshop (job interview). A lot of these agencies will not look at you unless they are conducting a paid workshop and even the chances of you getting called back are rare. Majority of castings are online today so you can submit and represent yourself until you get get with a well known reputatable agency. That is just how it is until things eventually change. I say " it is what it is!"

Because Peter, the words LEGAL and ILLEGAL exist for a reason, because if you ignore something illegal, this "ILLEGAL" will start projecting in your mind as LEGAL and it won't take long before you start thinking, hey, it's okay, I don't care, nobody else cares, leave it be. Well, it doesn't work that way, correction, that's exactly how it is but it shouldn't be. Audition and Job interview are the same thing. Did you pay for your job interview. Look, they can call it any way they want, Workshops, Auditions.... it still doesn't make it right and finally, WHY BRING THE LAW INTO IT? Personally, if I was asked to pay for audition or a job interview, that person wouldn't be able to MOVE AROUND for a long long time but I won't do that as long there is LAW in that country. Don't get me wrong, I don't know you and I've got nothing against you but there has to be somewhere to draw the line, once for all.

Okay, I'll respect your right to have yourown opinion, now and always, keep that in mind but maybe you could try to explain certain things in your response. First, why do you compare LEGAL and ILLEGAL to 12-step anger management course? Do you think I need one or that's just a figure of speech. Hey, I'm not even an actor. Let's start with casting directors. Who do they work for? Who hires them? I could be wrong and if someone corrects me I will not think any less of him/her but If I'm not mistaken, they are hired by Universal, WB, Paramount, Sony....... They work for them. CD's should start looking for specific actors based on Director's list of demands, male or female, sex, age, race.... this list depends on what the script is all about, I hope you can give me this much credit. So who gave the CD's the right, legal or moral, to charge for this workshop or audition. Does that mean whoever pays will get the role or this selection will take another round, then another, then another..... Where and how does it all end? POLICE STATE? Where did I ever say I or suggest a Police State, please explain this part to me or use Copy-Paste and point out. Also copy-paste or write down a link for a site where it says Charging for job interview is legal, as a employer you can or you have a right to do it, wait, write down 1 name, just 1 lawyer who can give us the answer. There are 184 countries at the moment on the PLANET EARTH and guess what, in each and every one of these countries there is a POLICE, every single one. There are also a lawyers, legal systems.... Unless, CD's come from another planet and all these laws don't apply to them or maybe they all have Diplomatic Passports, then maybe, just maybe they could be within their rights to charge for an auditions. Any county without LAW and POLICE to enforce that law is called ANARCHY, remember that. Hey, let's arm ourselves with MP-5's, enough C-4 to wipe-out the entire building, just to make sure we get the job. Or perhaps you are telling me when some of us are sent by unemployment agency to Walmart or any other company for a job interview, do they actually tell us we have to expect a small DONATION through PAYPAL account in case we even wanna be heard.

Thank you Peter but let's start from the end of your post. "a large pool of job applicants to choose from" but when it comes to actors it is in CD's best interest to choose from those who can pay. okay let's leave it to that. You don't need a special law "permitting" citizens to request money for their services. Yeah, right. Is this a sentence from Actual Constitution of the U.S. A prostitute, drug dealer, gun runners... are they also included here. Let's say no one can permit them to ask money for their services but only if their JOB DESCRIPTION exists but we can always BOOK them for tax evasion, unless that's not ILLEGAL as well. Do they actually give you a receipt once you transfer this $200 trough PAYPAL and you know there's no way to actually prove any transfers once the money leaves that account. As for POLICE STATE, I did suggest to young lady who asked all this to CHECK WITH THE LAWYER, CHECK WITH THE POLICE or the FBI and if they tell her that she has right to press charges, then and only then she has any ground or reason to do so. Read it in some of the previous posts. So basically, studio hires CD's and actors who are not even actors yet, end up paying for all this. NOW THE IMPORTANT PART. I think we are BOTH talking and arguing about different thing. A young lady was talking about different scenario, I'm not sure if I got it all right but I think she was talking about auditions, which somehow anded up or were placed as Workshops and she and the others were asked to pay for it. If you think I would suggest to BAN any seminars, workshops or any other way of learning or improving your knowledge, no I wouldn't and you were right when you wrote If you don't like it don't pay for it but if someone did mix AUDITION and WORKSHOP in one room and asks for money, that by any standards is or should be illegal, in any state in any country. How much do they charge for these Workshops and how long does it last, 3, 4 hours a week, for two weeks. I really don't know but, hey people do say, KNOWLEDGE IS POWER.

I think we are all over thinking this. It would be nice if everyone that sold something behaved in an ethical manner but that has never happened and never will. The smiple fact is that getting cast from a CD workshop is an anomaly and should not even be considered part of your business plan to succeed as an actor. They say it's not an audition so never ever think of it as an audition. If what they are offering content wise is not worth the money do not go. That's the simple answer. Actors need to put their time, energy, and money into training,, networking in real network environments, going on every audition they are ready for and right for, and from what I see everyday they need to get their life organized to pursue acting. Most are still waiting to be discovered. Stop waiting, stop pretending and become an actor. If your working more than 40 hours a week in a non-acting job, your not an actor, If your not training, your not an actor, if your not going to every networking event then your not an actor. If your not looking for an taking every professional opportunity to perform on film or on stage your not an actor. Stop looking for the quick fix at CD workshops, or any other pay-for-play venue. Make your self an asset and you will get cast and build a career.. Sorry to be so blunt but after teaching actors for 30 years I am a little tired of everyone looking for the unlocked door that all you have to do is walk through it. It does not exist.

I also sell insurance should I start charging people just to meet with me?Maybe I should charging the casting director to meet with me. To grace them with my prescense and all!

These posts are becoming pointless. If you want to charge, charge, if you don't want to pay don't go. These things do not effect your chances of success in acting in any way. I would never pay for them but others feel they have some value. Some states have made it illegal and perhaps we need to watch those states. Spend your money where it works for you and worthless seminars, workshops, etc. will simply fade away. Below is a statement about the legality issues in California In some cases, the industry itself has pushed to ban pay-to-audition workshops. Due to an epidemic of them in Los Angeles, in 2009 the Screen Actors Guild successfully pressured the California legislature to pass The Krekorian Talent Scam Prevention Act. The law requires casting workshops in that state to use specific language in marketing and advertising, to have clear educational content, and to avoid the implication that actors are auditioning for projects or representation. That's the standard at least in California. Let's move on to a more productive conversation. Of course it is not up to me to end a topic so I will just bow out gracefully and move on to other posts that have more potential to make a difference.

The very foundation of our legal system is "Common Law" which came from Judeo-Christian concepts that were codified into our system over time. They are very specificaly rooted in morality and that is one of the reasons America has accomplished things that no other country in history ever has. "Legal" is only what the people decide they want. Morality often governs what people want. So tollerance, which is often used as an excuse to have things your way, regardless of what socity wants is not something I find real important. The legal system is setup to allow for challenges, evolution in beliefs, and productivity. So those who want to have a say in how socity runs have every right to push for the legal system to deal with it. Of course "Common Law" had a primary emphasis which was common sense, and that is in very short supply these days. I prefer to let the free market decide what works and does not work, but we have to have some way of balancing the power of one side so it remains a free market and not a monopoly. That process is called the "law".

Craig's List is a perfect example of society in America. Personally I do not go over there other then to shake my head and see what regurgitated scam is going on

Hahaha, Peter! Truer words were never spoken. Online sites for filmmaking, acting, etc. are designed to extract money from people in some way, shape or form and fill their heads with the idea of achieving something or landing work. Although the sun does shine on a dog's ass from time to time, most would be better positioned to achieve their goals holding up a sign on the highway asking for help rather than networking online with common goaled strangers. I don't know if I would call them scams. I look at sites like Craigslist as pools filled with people that don't know what they are doing, have no money to do them and trying to find qualified people to work for them for free or very little pay. There may indeed be some scammers, but overall I think most of them are just delusional, inexperienced and unknowledgeable.

Peter, No you do not understand. I did not state anything about 32... (that is putting words in 'my' mouth.) Barry, If you think you are better off holding a sign on the freeway, why do you have a profile here then?

I have a profile here as I enjoy helping other industry professionals, like to learn things and for networking. And I don't believe Peter put any words in your mouth. He simply asked you a question.

The online industry is no different than any other advertising or eductional medium. It's just a trillion times bigger. The size means that every thing you are looking for or not looking for is there and will come to you if you let it. To condem the online industry is simply not looking at the big picuture. There will be crooks, idiots, and scam artists in all mediums. I have taken acting classes from world renouned coaches, coaches no one ever heard of, and everything inbetween. I found just as many incompetent coaches, scam artists, and out right criminals on a percentage bases as you would find on line. This is the same for workshops, seminars, etc. Some sites are even dangerous but there are many wonderful sites and tools on the internet and a well informed, professionaly inclined actor, filmmaker, etc. must use them. Craigs is one of those sites that is a huge mixture of good and bad and anyone using it should consider and research the source.