Screenwriting : Nunnery by Dean Steven Nichols

This sounds really cool..

I agree with Alle. But, also the prostitution section nunnery section seems to be different films. Maybe what you have written is the backstory to the main event. The Nunnery sounds like it could be a good horror story but the whole thing sounds very confused and far too long for a logline. Sorry to be harsh. Hope that helps.

Forgive me, but this seems like a rather black/white view of women. The slut verses good girl. Both (or all) options for your protagonist are completely defined by men (if God is believed to be a man as well). Male fantasies. Your female protagonist sounds extremely passive. Her guided path to self discovery sounds farfetched. Destined to be bigger than what, God? You already lost me with good girl turned prostitute turned nun.

The male gaze is firmly entrenched in cinema. Fortunately I think studios are starting to wise up to the need for stories that appeal to women. With box office down this year, maybe there are opportunities for new writers with new perspectives to break in. I'd certainly love to see that. Might be worth a separate post, Beth. A female voice versus a female protagonist?

Thank you Jerry, Alle, it is a man, not men, oops! And there might be some oops on my post, but I've corrected them. As of the prostitution and the nunnery section Adam refers to, no there are not two different films. It is a rather complex story where the character as Beth correctly stated, begins her journey as a very insecure young woman. But after the main event, she changes to a powerful individual. I am in the process of registering the outline, and I'll make it available soon. I have a few loglines I'm working to finalize. "After falling into a life of sin and degradation, a woman regains grace and innocence in a monastery, where she discovers she has been gifted with the power of evil."

Dean, I do wish you the best with your story. However, it still sounds like it's walking that line of female sexuality = evil and sexual abstinence = good. Perhaps your character may show other aspects of "evil." Give her much more than sex to explore her own complexities. Right now she doesn't sound three-dimensional. To discover one is with the devil is like becoming the back hand of God, right? In a way that is saintly. Is she at odds with herself? She wishes not to harm others but feels empowered and likes how close this brings her to God.... The gray areas between what one could consider good or evil is far more interesting. Just my two cents... Best of luck with your script. :)

Thank you Beth. Overall, like many women, and men, circumstances and emotional events forced her to the life of sin and degradation, she finds the strength to break away from, but after the main event, she embraces it, and all comes down to an event that took place when she was four months old.

Hi Dean, It seems in general you are glossing over the important plot developments with generic words. It might be that you have the gold in the screen play to make the story work but I can't help but feel you're holding too much back. See below. It is the story [WE KNOW IT'S A STORY SO ELIMINATE PADDING WORDS] of a young woman, NOT A DESCRIPTOR THAT HINTS AT HER CHARACTER CHANGE] who raised by a prestigious and religious family [TOO VAGUE], and fall in love with the wrong men [WE DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT HER TO KNOW WHO THE WRONG MAN IS FOR HER CHARACTER], who push her to prostitution, drugs, and the easy money [IF SHE FALLS IN LOVE WITH A PIMP THEN THE CONTRAST IS CLEAR]. Helped by a couple of friends ['COUPLE OF FRIENDS' IS SO VUAGE IT LOSES ANY CONFLICT. HELPED BY A CLIENT MIGHT BE INTERESTING], realized that he is only using her, and finds the strength ['FINDS THE STRENGTH' LACKS CONFLICT. WHAT EVENT CAUSES HER TO LEAVE? MAYBE ONE OF HER CLIENTS DIES AND SHE IS A SUSPECT] to leave him [SHE SOUNDS PASSIVE]. Disowned by her family, find shelter in the church, ultimately ['ULTIMATEL Y' SKIPS OVER LOTS OF PLOT DEVELOPMENT]. , she becomes a nun and goes to [CAN SHE BE HIDING IN THE MONASTERY FROM THE PIMP? 'GOES TO' LACKS TENSION] a remote monastery, where she discovers that she has the power to manifest her fears and the fears of others. She begins questioning God, but discovers that she is destined for something bigger. It might be interesting to establish her "power" at the beginning. Maybe she brings the worst fears of her clients to life while she is a sex worker. That way the two halves of the story could be knitted together. At present they seem very separate.

Aren't all women half nuns and half prostitutes? hehe. jk.

Yikes Danny! You are either very brave or very stupid. LOL! ;P I'm guessing you'd say you're "brave."

Alle once again pushing your own twisted agenda and view of men and women and God. None of which has anything to do with this post or his script. And Beth, I'll take brave. but obviously I was just kidding. mostly. The larger point however, is that by combining archetypes and making your character more than just one cliche thing at a time, that's how you create stronger characters and stories.

Alle, in a way you're right, but you're also wrong. I have written the fist draft of the novel, I know very well what my story is about. As I stated in the beginning of this trend. there are a few oops on this post, which is only a rough summery of what the story is about.

Hey Dean, I get it. You've worked out your outline. You've made your decisions. It is your story. Of course. But, please do heed our comments. We only wish to help, to challenge you, to offer objective opinions. :) You seem vague in your responses thus far. :) I think it is completely unintentional, but your premise, as it is briefly described, sounds rather sexist. Sorry, it does. I know that seems harsh, but why alienate half (or more) of your audience right out of the gate? I don't know all the story details, of course, but this troubled girl/prostitute storyline also sounds rather cliche. Young female characters that are having some sort of crisis and fall into "a life of sin" always means prostitution. I challenge you to remove that element. Would if she wasn't a prostitute? Would if her "fall" means something more surprising. Different. Would if she kills people. Sure, she can be sexual, but why a prostitute? Why does she have to be used by others? Does she have to be a victim to be conflicted? Maybe she victimizes others. Maybe she ends up with the nuns as a way to stop herself. She realizes she's driven by something evil and seeks redemption only to be forced to accept her fate. Removing the prostitute element frees up your story. It also makes her seem far more active as a protagonist. Anyway, I do mean this all as "food for thought." Best wishes to you.

Alle, yes, I know men fear us. Care to join me in some maniacal laughter... ;)

Beth, I posted this article because I wanted to hear from others, there is no harshness on criticism, I ask for it, and I do appreciate and value the feedback I’ve received and thank you all. However, prostitution seems to be the key word. I really don’t understand why. We were weather like it, or not. It is the oldest profession in the world, and in my book of shadows, it is a social profession and not something that would downgrade one's persona, but that's only my opinion. However, not the opinion of my character’s parents, which it becomes the reason to disown her, and that’s what drives the story.

As a thank you for your participation in this discussion, here's a link to listen my compositions, and if you like to download them please let me know and I'll email you a link. Thank you. http://www.deannichols.org/music.html

Yes, prostitution is the oldest profession. However, I disagree, it does down grade one's persona, certainly in our reality. For me, for this discussion, it was the premise of troubled girl turned prostitute turned nun that caused me pause. Whore verses saint complex. As a female audience member I've grown so tired of women being portrayed the same way over and over again in film, in books, in music videos, et cetera... It's nauseating. I'm probably projecting my own issues onto this discussion and I apologize about that. Perhaps your story reaches much further than it appears to on the surface. Nonetheless, I do wish you the best with your story and with all your endeavors. :)

Beth, it is only a POV, and of course it varies from one person to another. However, ask yourself, If it wasn't for all these women who roaming the streets at night, would the world be the same? To my POV, no, more chaotic perhaps. There are contributing a lot in the society, why it has to be downgrading? It is obvious, that my description of a prostitute becoming God’s servant it was disturbing to you. Though I am not a follower of Christ, isn’t God supposed to be forgiving? Isn’t the one who accepts everyone, as long as your soul remains pure? Isn’t the one who gives everyone the opportunity of redemption? If you feel that I’m defending them, you might be right. To me, it all comes down to how we perceive things. I was raised Orthodox, but I am an explorer. I’m asking questions; the church did not answer to my questions. I do believe in God, but I have my own philosophy.

So it's the fault of girls who work the street that you were assaulted, Alle? That's a very strange way of looking at things.

Dear Alle, at first good morning. My piece it is set in Paris's present time. Therefore, researching US domestic violence laws, it won’t be much help. In Europe, we see thinks a little more open minded. I’m from Greece. I've spent a lot of time in France, England, Germany, and many other European capitals, so I do have first-hand information of the European mentality. And as Anton asked. Why it's the fault of girls who work the street that you were assaulted?

Dean, I am not a religious person. Not at all. I was only discussing this subject in the context of a script or novel. Can you not see the sexist element to this premise? It is there right on the surface. I do not say that often. You are defining women in your story within the context of sex. You are using two extremes -- prostitution and nunnery, sexual object verses saint, sinner verses salvation. As I said earlier, as a female audience member you have completely lost me and offended me. It's just the truth. You will receive this reaction from other women. You will receive concern about religious views on sex because those views lack open mindedness. Anton, Dean and any other man out there... Do not presume that you know anything 'real' about the female experience. You don't. Let me say that again -- YOU DON'T. This is not about sexual "open mindedness." I don't care if we are talking about New York City street hookers or the high end call girls of Paris. It is still objectifying women. It is still a societal issue. It is still women putting themselves at risk for violence and rape. WE have a GLOBAL problem of sexual abuse and sex trafficking. WE have a societal problem of offenders believing that if some women sell their bodies for money then why can't I have any woman. What's the difference? They are sexual objects. This mentality exists in Europe too. It exists everywhere. Guys, this hits that area where you will never know or understand because you are a man, it's just the truth -- like you will never understand what it is like to give birth. Likewise, I would never ever presume to fully understand the male experience. You cannot write a story about prostitution and avoid these societal elements and issues. As I said earlier, most scripts/films about this subject really offer nothing new. Nothing. It's the same thing over and over. Especially if written from a male perspective. With 51% of American population being women we have grown numb to it. Only stories that truly tap into an authentic, first hand, true emotional experience and the psychological complexities surrounding the oldest profession, does it speak volumes. Let's talk about rape statistics here in America; 1 out of every 6 women has been a victim of an attempt or a completed rape. 17.7 million women have experienced an attempt or completed rape. 80% of those women are under the age of 30 (Facts found at RAINN Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network). Yes, I am well aware of male rape victims. 3% of American men, that's 1 in 33 have experienced an attempt or rape. But, for the sake of this discussion I am only referring to women. I have experienced two attempts myself, both in high school. One; I was leaving the girls' locker room and was grabbed by three boys and pulled into a corner in the school basement. I have never been so horrified in my life. Thankfully I am athletic and immediately kicked and punched at them. I kept spinning and twisting and broke free and ran away. The school did nothing -- "boys will be boys." Dean, you have two women on this thread that are giving you very personal insights about our perceptions and life experiences -- female sexuality; women as sexual objects; prostitution; common portrayals shown in film; male definitions of women; whore/good girl complexes... This is good stuff. The only point of this is to offer opinions and insights. We as storytellers benefit greatly from each other. Again, I hope that this discussion helped you in some way. I do wish you the best!

Beth, this discussion has helped a lot, and thank you. The debate about my character, it is based on the condensed summary available which it can't really project much of the story, it does however, projects enough. My question is, why can't we see the bigger picture, why we've failed to see that the story projects the ordeal of a woman who just simply fall in love. We've been focusing this discussion on the sexual aspect, but no one talked about the man who's the cause of all this. So, if someone should be offended by it, it is the man, not the woman.

Great, Dean, I'm glad. :) Yes, this has been all about the surface points of the story, but again, that is because we only know some brief details. In all fairness, I have not read the story. However, the surface points are the premise, the concept, right? Sorry, I did not catch that a man is at the center, or the cause, of this story. And, sorry, but that male character being the root cause of her actions plays further into the notion of male definitions/male values of women -- "she did this all because of a man." Perhaps there are other/additional reasons she made the choices she made. Perhaps there is far more depth to her character then just "being in love." Again, I do wish you the best with your story. I won't comment any further. :)