Acting : What about race, ethnicity and casting? by Laura Tabor-Huerta

Ok, I will start. I think race as a term has been overused and incorrectly used. There are no separate races as they say-just the human race. What we have are different ethnicities. Ethnicities cut across how someone looks. For example not all white people are raised to have the same culture, habits, feelings the same as all black people don't. A black person in one city and a white person in the same city or a different city may have been raised identical to each other and have the same ethnicity? So when we get to casting we are often casting for ethnicity but because of old bad habits-we call it race. Superhero movies are ones where the color of someone's skin should not be a part of casting except if the part was written for a certain ethnicity/type in the writers mind. Even then I think it can still be open whether to cast based on that. Look at the movie Salt for a related example-that movie's main character was supposed to be a man but they cast Angelina J, a good move I thought.

We like to separate things into "black and white". Fact is technically speaking the term black and white are just a euphemisms for various degrees of skin pigmentation. No living, healthy person is actually "black or white". And most people are pigmented in the middle. Ethnicity is almost as weak. Humans have pretty much the same nutritional, emotional and intellectual needs as groups go. There is as more variation between people in a group that between various groups. None of the separations make any sense. We just make them up. We can unmake them. We believe what we do about each other because books, plays, movies, television and stories our "cultures" told us created this false reality. I say it is up to us artists to unmake it. We have power, use it or lose it.

Hi Lawrence, so to put this in a context for me would a story about Italians say in a neighborhood be played by any "race"? Should stories be changed so they can be universal or is there any place for stories of different people who look different from each other? Sorry I am probably not making sense-my son has a fever and I have to pick him up from school. More later.....

If you are in Italy, make it look like Italy. But Italians aren't clones. Make the scenes reflect the population of Italy, all of Italy. Few stories demand the use of clones. People are so much alike that in many cases faces and skin tones are not critical to the story line and the story line can alway write in why the character looks a certain way. For year we have had Italians and Czechs play "Indians", if that was believable why couldn't and "Indian" play an Italian or Czech. Few people have a problem with pictures of Jesus being blonde and blue eyed, how historically accurate is that?

Ok, I am back. People are having this discussion tho under the original post I see, the one asking about whether a superhero can be female, gay, etc. But here goes. You make a good point there when you mention the Jesus thing. In fact so many kids grow up with the blonde/blue Jesus thing they accept it as fact. I knew about Italians playing Indians because of the Spaghetti Western thing but not Czechs. Interesting because you used an example of both my "ethnic" backgrounds Czech and Italian. So maybe the word we are looking fro instead of race or ethnicity is culture? And culture can be anything someone feels they grew up with? I have to agree now that you pointed it out that in the movies of Italians they have all lightish skinned people with dark hair and dark eyes playing Italians and yet you are correct that in real life they might be a mix of skin tones. I just saw the movie Sideways and the casting of Sandra Oh as the "quick lay" seemed to be cast regardless of color or race, unless I missed something in the script.

I can think of some stories where if the whole point of the thing is "race" for lack of a better word then the story's point is mute, like for example Mark's example of Guess Who's Coming to Dinner. Not sure how well that movie fared over time. I watched it as an adult and it seemed sorta pointless in this time period. But maybe that is cause of who, what and where I am.

From Chuck Dudley http://www.deadline.com/2013/01/deception-creators-see-no-need-to-call-a...

The thing that is difficult for us is to see is what a mind control game racists, i.e. those who believe in the concept of race, have played on all of us. Somewhere in our minds we think that there really is such a thing as race so recognizing that it doesn't exist seems like some kind of liberal copt out. Even the people who are the victims of such idiocy cling to it for dear life. Their identity depends on it so they can't let it go. They have swallowed the hook down to the gut.

I ask again, if we say white people or black people did something, just who is white, who is black? How do you define those people? I maintain that every conversation begins with and depends on agreement on terms. Understanding that there has never been an understanding of "racial" terms reshapes the whole conversation. Not to define those terms means that no meaningful conversation can take place. Racists depend on no meaningful conversation ever taking place.

I'm adding my two cents as a psychology grad student/counselor. Our brain is designed to categorize information for easy retrieval. A such, terms like race, culture, ethnicity, etc are designed to aid in this. "Race" is one of the main categories used to describe physical characteristics such as skin pigmentation, hair type, bone structure, etc. This is based on genetic ancestry. This category breaks into smaller ones for differences between those in the particular group. We all know a Black person can have any number of variations of physical characteristics. "Ethnicity" describes people who identify with each other. This is generally due to perceived ancestry. One issue with discussing race, culture, ethnicity or other categories is that people tend to be so afraid of "insulting, offending" - or whatever semantics we choose - that they want to dismiss the differences between groups. On a purely biological level, there are differences between groups, but even these can vary. I think it's easier to understand when someone says a Black person, they mean someone of brown skin, African descent. Yes, there are Whites born in Africa, but the difference is obvious. In all, writers should just focus on the story and let casting directors make the choice of actors. That's what they get the big bucks for.

I agree that the brain, in its efforts to "make sense" of things , does this by finding or create patterns. In this case we have been hoodwinked into creating and insisting on patterns that don't exist. The groups we call "race", to quote the census department "are sociopolitical constructs and should not be interpreted as being scientific or anthropological in nature". If ethnicity means people who identify with each other, am I Japanese, chinese, Roslynite, South Dakotan, artists? I identify with all of these groups and they have shown they have demonstrated that they identify with me. What I notice is that no one wants to answer the basic question. What are the difference in "skin pigmentation, hair type, bone structure, etc." that any one group has that all the people in that group have and other groups don't have? When you say, "We all know a Black person can have any number of variations of physical characteristics" but we can't agree on what we mean by a "Black" person, how can know if I agree with you or not. This is the definition of a "white" person taken from the Random House College Dictionary Revised Ed.1988. *A member of a racial group or its descendents, originally inhabiting Europe and parts of North Africa, Western Asia and India *Complexion varies from fair to very dark *Hair texture ranges from kinky to straight *Lips tend to be thin *Nose straight *Iris light or dark in hue The definition of other groups are just as vague. Is this the definition people have when casting a s "white" person? If you casting call went out for a "white" person and someone showed up who was very dark, kinky hair, a straight nose and dark brown eyes, would she be likely to get the part? Would the audience assign their "white" stereotypes to that character? I have found that people use "race" to describe more than just physical characteristics. Such different expectations as to what we mean by race renders any creation of a character based on "race' just a tool for "racists".

Of course this discussion could go on forever, as entire courses are held on the topic. But think of it this way. If I write a script and say "Derek is Black", how many people would have a problem understanding what we mean?

Seems you went from "I" to "we" in your sentence, so "I" am not sure what "we" mean :-). But seriously, the problem is that each person knows what they mean. Each thinks they know what the other means. Each assumes that there is an objective and universal classification of races and that there is some connection between what people look like, their life experiences and who they are. Few people test their assumptions. If we operate on such different definitions, can we call this communication? Is film about communication? I would certainly appreciate a listing of any university courses you know of that deal with this question and teach that "race" is objectively more than sociological poppycock. I make presentations to universities on this subject and I have never been told that they have a course thst deals with this. Most universities don't want to deal with it because they don't know how to navigate between facts and the politically sensitive myth of "diversity" in human populations. I know there are a lot of people that try to bend the facts to hang on to their identity. I get that and sympathize. But we are a lot more alike than different. FIlm can tell that story. Art can advertise that reality. BTW I answered your questions. Does this means you have no answers to mine? :-)

Actually, I didn't respond to specifically answer questions just add my little bit. I don't know of any courses that specifically deal with race as a whole course, just ones that touch on/deal with, etc the topic. Multicultural (a.k.a. cross cultural) psychology is one. I'm sure your comment of "Seems you went from "I" to "we" in your sentence, so "I" am not sure what "we" mean :-)." was rhetorical btw. lol If you'd like to continue this discussion, feel free to send me a message. I don't think too many people here would want to watch us playing semantic tennis all day. ;-)

It is true that the terms leave out so much. That each one of us when we hear a term has a different picture in our head. As Melvin says "One issue with discussing race, culture, ethnicity or other categories is that people tend to be so afraid of "insulting, offending" - or whatever semantics we choose - that they want to dismiss the differences between groups. " That is why no one else joins in-they think there is a right answer. One example of perceived race or culture is my husband is Hispanic and can see that trait in others sometimes when I can't. Take this example into casting-if someone wants a Hispanic in a role they often cast someone with dark hair and eyes so the viewer "gets it" like a hammer over the head. If you go into Mexico for example many Mexicans have light hair and eyes or you will see a dark haired Mexican that has blue eyes. So for casting they go further than the reality to fit some idea in their mind. It is not needed to do that.

I have been trying to find someone to explain What "hispanic" is? What defines a hispanic? For example if a person's parents immigrate to Spain from China, and she is born grows up only speaking spanish and then immigrates to the USA, is she "hispanic"?

Some one other than me would have to explain, I would end up "Googling it". I just know that in my husband's family it is a preferred description. Many folks from California like the term Chicano. Many Texans dislike that term a lot.

I doubt you will find answers to these questions on Google, or anywhere else. I certainly have not found anyone to answer questions like these. That is why I object to the use of such terms. If they have shared meaning they are useless for communicating. And worse it makes us think we are communicating when we are not.