Composing

To be honest, your question is somewhat confusing for me. Those creating short films, are often on a very small or no budget at all. If they use music at all, they go for 'creative commons' or some low to no priced music. I have just watched as part of the "Worldfest" festival ongoing here in Houston a bunch of short films - some had no music at all and some used free music. Another thing that happens with shorts is that the filmmaker, gets a band or one or more musicians to play for free. There are obvious advantages for this approach but it does have some drawbacks: (1) as the music is often pre-written it is up to the filmmaker/director to search for music that will fit with the action and intent of the scene (versus having a composer custom write music). (2) Also, the music will often not be of the correct length and so the filmmaker or his/her surrogate (often the sound editor) will have to decide exactly what portions of the musical clip to use.

Sometimes, a composer can be used to custom write music cues at little to no cost. Many composers will refuse to do this since they believe that they should be compensated for their time and creative artistry. So only a fraction of the shorts I have seen will have custom written cues. I actually do not agree with that philosophy. I believe that there is room for no cost custom written music as long as the rest of the crew is also not being paid. I believe it is a win-win since I get an opportunity to both practice my collaboration skills as well as to hone my ability to score for films. That is why I have 22 IMDB credits for shorts - all of which were done at no cost. I personally draw the line at features.

Another opportunity you may have though which is outside of the conventional film industry are wedding videos. About 80%+ of wedding videos are of 'cinematic' style which means the typical product, the "highlight reel" has no sound at all and the wedding videographers look to purchase music to overlay on the video. In my day job , I am a wedding videographer but I shoot in a different 'style' which normally uses the actual audio track and not overlaid music. Though when I am asked to/hired to, I will compose music. Here is a good example where I actually composed film style music, earlier this year, to a 'first look' segment my bride wanted overlaid music for. As you can see, the music is pretty much the same as a cue you would have in a film though it tends to be more 'thematic', structured and 'complete'. Though writing synthesized and orchestral music for highlight wedding clips is possible, more often than not, the videographers (who act as 'filmmakers' in this case), go with vocal music and often "singer songwriter style".

https://youtu.be/KIB6lmB4-q0

Your final comment "movie for music" is basically the definition of a 'music video'. Again, normally the video involves the performer/performers and the film/video shot is silent and overlaid with a pre-recorded music created/recorded live. However, this is not always the case. Back in 2013, I lent my pre-recorded musical piece called "Elegantia" to a filmmaker who created a film around it. The film went on to win a Houston competition and then placed 2nd to Paris internationally (12 awards in all). I was not in the video/film and it was not recorded live (though it can certainly be played live in the future). To get a feel for what I would call a 'film without dialog' and this could give you some ideas, check out:

https://youtu.be/jXfajMVeT54

Joel, thank you for advice.

Yes I can do it.. I have written songs and I have written scores too.. Please find my works here: https://soundcloud.com/vijay-siddharth

I just write songs at this point.

Yup! I'm from India and like you may already know most of the indian films does consist of a list of songs, i have done for one movie a couple of yrs back when the director requested for some songs to move some stories and montages. i have also produced some songs aswell..

I write mostly Country to Pop Music. Most of my songs are available at: http://reverbnation.com/BrianLeeRobinson I have a lot of Instrumental versions of my songs, as well.

Hi, Greetings from Warsaw! I write songs and instrumentals. You can find them on my profile. Would be happy to cooperate with you. Have a great day! Bart

I personally love reading scripts and getting a feel for what kind of themes and moods I want from that. If I get something in pre-production I will usually write some preliminary tracks to show the director what I was thinking, and then adjust them as we move on. Pretty much every job I have applied for, I have sent an idea of what I was thinking from my first impression of the project.

Once I get footage, I will watch it, come up with an idea, then write and watch, and watch and change and so on until I am satisfied. And then usually go back and repeat. Then I will usually make a rough mix and send it to the director. If they like it, I will mix and polish and send it back.

I hope some of that helps.

It depends on the preferences of the director. I've worked on scores where the director knows what he wants every moment down to the note and instrument, to one where he has no clue what he wants, to everything in between. My job as a composer is to accommodate them all. Contrary to some composers, I actually appreciate a temp score -- so long as the director isn't 'in love' with it -- as it gives us a point of departure. Some directors have strong ideas what they want yet appreciate (even expect) me to push back with contrary ideas. There is almost always some "marinating time" needed. There are different dynamics and creative processes depending on the personalities of everyone involved. So long as the shared goal is creating the best score possible for your film, I'll figure out a way to get there.

Thanks Geoff and Brian (I didn't see your response come in 3 weeks ago). I'm finding the temp music is helpful in establishing tone and tempo, and general mood. But the first composer I demoed (paid audition) just tried to reconstruct the same song, matching the instruments, and piecing it together differently as if the goal were to get around licensing. Even on round two or three, he couldn't seem to find his own inspiration and bring something original to the table. Hence 'tempitis' (not letting go of the temp music) can sometimes be a hindrance to both!

The guy I'm currently working with pretty much discarded the temp and wrote his own thing, guided by the emotions of the scene. Surprising me with something new and bold and fresh. I give him notes, he does his best to apply them, and we go from there. It really is an interesting process, and director and composer have to figure out how best to collaborate to achieve the ultimate product.

Inspired (and in some way influenced) by: Lully, Purcell, Telemann, Vivaldi, Bach, Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Mendelssohn, Rossini, Donizetti, Verdi, Bizet, Leoncavallo, Mascagni, Puccini, Strauss Jr., Grieg, Wagner, Tchaikovsky, Mussorgsky, Prokofiev, Stravinsky, Strauss, Satie, Saint-Saens, Ravel, Debussy, Faure, Sibelius, Dvorak, Holst, Elgar, Gershwin, Copland, Bernstein, and Adams.

Bach, Beethoven, Bowie, Beatles, Debussy, Chopin, Motown, R -n- B, melodic Jazz (swing basie ellington Chick webb Satchmo etc) COuntry sux a lot of rap and hip hop inspires me lyrically musically they were not given a chance in public schools in da ghetto. Wane county MI boy ... the LYRICS in rap and hip hop are the best poetry by far per capita, I mean GO Manizzles. ~RevPops http://www.hishousemedia.com

Lyle Mays and Pat Metheny for the use of chord structure phrases......Dave Brubeck....Prokofiev BIG TIME.....Mahler.....Rachmaninof to name a few.

Oh man.....the song "Are You Going With Me?" .....Pat Metheny & Anna Maria Jopek (Stan's daughter) live....that song is just frigggggggggggin' amazing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iSiPjbS8_Q

Wesley, did you ever get to work with Fred Kaz? He was a pretty amazing musician, too - and a funny as fudge guy off the Second City stage as well. RIP, Mr. K!

I'm a long-time musician...I love all styles and periods of music...just to add some early British rock bands who played with orchestras....Deep Purple, the Moody Blues, Pink Floyd, ELP, Fripp/Crimson/et al, Eno....a lot of those shows with orchestras are on Youtube. What great stuff that is. I was fortunate to see all those bands in the 1970's - those were some great shows.

Ben Frost is a major influence of mine, but he is scoring films too now.

Brandi - I would think the internship prepared you well for the business and collaboration end. Tell us, if you choose, has the internship provided you with any real world artistic growth in the actual writing, arranging, scoring, or conducting of your own works. Having watched "Home Again" with my wife this weekend - I was reminded about how 'business oriented' it is in the LA Market and perhaps how difficult it is to get the decision makers to recognize artistic talent or perhaps a breakthrough or new 'sound'. In my opinion, we are still in the music business - as much as we say we are service providers and there to support the action of the film. We still need to compete with each other for business and recognized based on our accomplishments and our 'product'. Just as in the Pop, Rock, Country, Jazz segments - there are those of us who choose to 'follow' (e.g., 'sound like' Zimmer, Williams, Silvestri, etc.) and those of us who choose to move in a different direction. I was reminded today by prof in our first class, that I still sound too much like the 'old school' film composers (e.g., Elmer Bernstein, Goldsmith, Alfred Newman, Bernard Herman, etc.) - it was intended as a critique and not a compliment.

Brandi - I hope this message finds you well. I realize am in a similar position that you were in 3 years ago, and was looking for some guidance. I am a composer and producer, graduating in May from Stevens Institute of Technology, and I have been looking for assistant jobs with composers in studios in both NYC and LA. I am specifically looking at interning at Remote Control Production studios this summer. I see that you just finished an internship with them last year and was wondering if you could pass on some experiential knowledge being a part of such a challenging and creative atmosphere! Would love to connect and talk if you have the chance. :)

Hello everyone! Happy Saint Patrick's Day.

I need help in writing a Stage Play for 3 Puppet Toy Bears.

Can anyone tell me..."How to find material to write the Stage Play in a certain way". I mean I would love to go to Public Schools with my New Puppet Show; Titled "Where's the Soda Tub?".

Can anyone help me set the Stage Script right?

Where can I find a Book or Video that would help?

I am also thinking of writing a Musical, but don't know where to start.

Any advice or help will be greatly appreciated.

Also is there anyone out there that could tell me how to get my Stage Play ready for Broadway??

Migdalia - first of all, you placed your request at the end of a three year old post concerning music internships - obviously nothing to do with what you are asking. Secondly, there is a whole separate facility here for 'job postings' which is where you would find what you are looking for. There are also courses and seminars(i.e., "education") here specifically geared to script writing. This forum is more involved with the process and issues of creating music - sometimes our opinions about music.

Thanks for the advice. I am New here and finding my way. Someone just emails me PlaySummissions.com and they are truly the Art of the Matter on Puppetry and Stage Plays. Thanks for the Guidance.

Before I got into film music, I was heavily into the music of the second viennese composers. I still am to an extent. I love writing in the twelve tone method.

I write mostly downtempo electronica, most often with an orchestral element to it (i.e. lush strings, warm trumpets, etc.)

I write mostly Country-Pop music.

My music can be found at: ReverbNation.com/BrianLeeRobinson I also have Instrumental versions of a lot of my songs.

Hip-Hop, Pop, R&B, Orchestral

hmmm.... don't see the connection with film composing... looks like just like a promotion.

It's a Stage 32 event posted in all sections. See banner at the top of the site. And here's the S32 blog post: https://www.stage32.com/blog/Filmcon-Hollywood-2018. ;)

Are you scoring to the Video Using what DAW.

Hi John Zachary, yes I'm scoring to video using Cubase.

HI would you like to give me a call might have some tips to help.
252-469-2495 Im In Atlanta..

Excellent John Zachary! Good on you! this is what our beloved Stage 32 is all about. Offering what you have to give to other creatives and opening doors and finding people to work with comes organically through positivity and creative ideas and support. Networking at it's finest Julian Montgomery Happy networking boys

Hey John Zachary I'll hit you up sometime today.

The most awarded musical of all time - 10 Oscars in all (I think it is one four or is it five films to ever get 10 or more Oscars).... West Side Story. Nuff said....

ET. Well for me its more personal as its a film I enjoyed watching over and over again as I kid. But the melodic themes are just incredible!

thanks

Trevor Jones for The Dark Crystal.

Thanks.

THANK YOU Joel Irwin , Allen Lynch and Jonathan Price for your feedback!!! As a multidiscipliinary artist I have always loved music as an artistic vehicle, as an emotional expression but also fascinated by the technical aspects behind great scores. Contrary to other directors and writers, it is MUSIC what typically INSPIRES ME because certain songs/score are VERY VISUAL to me: It transports me into a dimension where the score becomes a plot, places, emotions, colors. In that sense, I work from inside out as I craft plot from emotional and abstract ideas into visual narrative.

I imagine that some music composers can also draw inspiration based on READING a screenplay, as oppose to others that draw their inspiration from the VISUALS of a film. Because, let's say, if you're a music composer and you're commissioned to do a feature film score based on a novel... You will probably compose score A based on your response from reading the original material and compose score B (completely different from score A) based on watching the first cut of the film. In which of these two spectrum's do you fall?

I am being hired to write music to support the action - very specific action at various points. The music needs to add to tension or surround and envelope you when two people kiss. These hit points can't be composed in advance. Certain music such as end titles, themes and motif styles can be created and used in advance. So in essence as a film composer I can do both A and B. But if all I do is just A, then I am really no better than a director just using a pre-recorded cue taken from a library. I would like to think I am adding value by customizing the quality and length of the cue to the action of the film.

I think you'd find a lot of composers that are comfortable with both scoring to picture and scoring from a script. The latter is similar to composing a tone poem or an opera.

This is really a question most thought of well before you asked it. I simply (internally) demand a chance to work with a director on not just the 'tones' and arrangements of an original score....but such minute details as to color changes from one scene to the next....and very very small 'movements' of the actors and actresses in scenes. If you have scene THE APARTMENT with Jack Lemmon.....remember the opening scenes when he was typing on a typewriter, and how the composer wrote the music to go along with that 'motion' . I feel a little more intense about it than that...and would like to come close to writing something like a ballet for a film. In order to do this....the composer must be in close communication with the director from the very planning stages of the production.....long and well before post production begins.

Wesley - just to quickly diverge - studying and listening to composers from before say 1970 is very important to any serious music creative. And many people who paid attention to say Bernard Hermann, Jerry Goldsmith, and Alfred Newman may have not paid attention to Adolph Deutsch who scored the Apartment. But his attentiveness and ability to work the music of the film musicals to perfection garnered him 5 oscar nominations of which he won 3. I will never forget the music of Seven Brides For Seven Brothers (one of his three Oscars) which I have watched many times just to listen to the choreographed and synchronized orchestrations to various dance sequences.

Great advice! And some of those comments sound a lot like what my composition professor would say!

Though, you won. Yes, still good advice to listen to others. I heard a good critique of one piece at Mix Me / FB group.

One of the hardest (to hear) yet the best piece of advice given me was - "Beautiful theme BUT WAY OVER USED"! I tend to weave the central theme throughout the film in various ways and with different orchestration. When I was told this (by more than one person) I went back and counted the number of times I brought the 'main theme' into the film - Each film since I am particularly cautious of when and how to use main theme(s). I also have needed to be aware of when and how best to use piano -

I am brutishly cadenza'd, Joel. And....a little bit confused, I got a message (I think from you, please forgive me if I am incorrect) from you on icomposition and haven't found the piece you spoke about in the letter. All the best to you, and from reading your letter hear, you are someone to whom I look forward to listening with.

hmm... i looked through all my private messages back four years and did not see anything with you. The full score referred in this post above was for "The Last Command" which premiered last Aug in LA - http://www.icompositions.com/music/song.php?sid=223655. I can provide a private link to the film on youtube upon request.

I sure hope Keala has a great performance of This is Me. She use to sing jing for me. What a little powerhouse she is. Always sings it like she means it, as you should.

I too think that Desplat will probably win, but I'm rooting for Burwell.

Dara, I usually root for the underdog. Hey Linwood! Who do you think will take it this year? When did Keala sing for you?

I'm with you guys with Desplat. I listen to it often, but still haven't seen the movie. I need to get out more!! It's been a long time since I've seen/worked with Keala. Like 15 years or so. Of course that feels like yesterday, though. Last time I saw her I did an arr of You Can't Stop The Beat from Hairspray for her to perform here in Las Vegas for an AIDS benefit. She was getting ready to go on the road with the company at the time. She deserves all the good things life can throw her way. She can give and deserves to get.

+1 Desplat