Composing

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I have been participating in a song writing contest sponsored by the Society Of Composers and Lyricists (SCL) which is one of the professional organizations for professionals in film, TV and theater. After four days, the lyricist I was paired with had to leave because of her final exam load (she is a graduate student). They found another lyricist whose composer never responded and paired him with me. The 'issue' was he was primarily a composer himself who wrote lyrics. He loved what I wrote but immediately started to suggest major changes to the structure of the music because in his opinion the 'verse' and 'chorus' were 'too close'. Our collaboration lasted only for the initial phone call.

He wrote me a lovely email and I responded in return. Here is what I wrote:

"I fully understand where you are coming from. It sort of 'dovtails' with my view about effective teams/partnerships/collaborations. Having worked in the Air Force, Exxon, and run my own business for the last 14 years, I have found the most effective of them occur when each member has a unique non-overlapping role. That would not have been true with us. We both had interest in the content of the music and thusly the process would have at a minimum been slowed down for both of us to agree with the music. In addition, we both would have had to 'relinquish' some the character or 'sound' of the music along the way resulting in music that was different from either of our styles. My music does not normally take into consideration the 'norms' and 'rules' of the commercial realm as I do not normally consider commercial viability when I compose. Though having scored now 35 films with a win and 3 nominations as well as 5 of the films themselves with a win, my 'style' seems to agree with my customers :)

My main purpose was not to compose a song as it was to find a full time lyricist that could be interested in continued collaboration. I have previously collaborated with four lyricists who have 'moved on' for various reasons. Clearly in my opinion, our pairing would not have resulted in a such an outcome.

Nonetheless, I love to continue to network with my fellow composers on any level that makes sense. If you are similarly interested, friend me on Facebook. I will gladly accept.

I wish you the best on your continued career in music."

So have you any experiences where you shared a collaboration with another professional composer. If you respond, let us know whether you were collaborating on an equal level or whether one of you was 'working for' the other.

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Sometimes when I compose a melody, it becomes very obvious that I 'borrowed' it from somewhere else. Most the time I have no idea if the melody infringes anything else among the universe of billions if not trillions of songs. Practically speaking, until that time when the music generates revenue and/or becomes wildly listened to, imho whether or not my music infringes is sort of not important - meaning I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it.

But suppose you have a song you want to publish and think it be potentially popular or a theme for a film that you hope has not been used in another film and you want to know sooner than later if the material is clean or infringing. Keep in mind that no matter how much effort you put into 'clearing' a song, you will never know 100%. So putting it into tangible form (and maintaining the date/proof) or even registering a copyright does not mitigate the situation - it only helps if you get or want to sue once another song is identified.

Now I am not coming from the legal standpoint as I am not a lawyer. I am more interested here in discussing what things you can do to 'pick the low hanging fruit'. For example, I wrote a melody I used last year in a nominated score but part of it (a repeating phrase), sounded familiar. It seemed to be it could conflict with "Seasons Of Love" from Rent. I asked a music supervisor to listen to both and his non-legal opinion suggested to go ahead and release. Again, that made me 'feel better' but was no guarantee I would not get sued by the owners of the music of rent. But as the score was part of a short film competition that does not generate any revenue, I felt comfortable to go ahead. On the other hand, if that melody is separately published and produced (with a singer and lyrics), I would continue to insure that there was not any infringement.

So here let's discuss two types of services/opportunities that can help us start on the journey to check whether our music infringes on another. There are free choices and paid choices.

Here are the three I use for initial 'peace of mind' that are free:

1. Play different parts of the music into the Shazam app and listen to the matches (if any).

2. Upload the film (as private) or an mp4 (not mp3) of the music to Youtube and see if its algorithms flag any part as infringing.

3. Check with a professional friend in the music or film biz that you know has a broad knowledge of music (like a music supervisor)

Paid Choices:

I have not myself been a position where I needed to invest money to further check whether music infringes. Perhaps others here have gone this route and can share their experiences - good and bad.

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Kevin M. Kraft

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1 person likes this
- Joanna Karselis
4 days ago

This was some of my early work, but I'm pleased with how it turned out.

You're a composer too?

Joanna Karselis

4 days ago

It turned out really nicely, congratulations! Yes, I am indeed a composer too.

3 days ago

What are you working on currently, if I may ask?

1 day ago

Me? I'm just waiting for the final mix of a horror feature I've been on, which might get a limited UK cinema run but will probably go straight to Amazon Prime, and I'm starting work on an epic fantasy...

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Joel Irwin

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- Florin Şumălan
2 weeks ago

inspiration - listen listen listen to ALL Genres (not just soundtracks). I am particularly interested in pop music between 1910 and 1955. I have arranged quite a few of them either electronically or f...

Kerry Kennard

2 weeks ago

Hi Joel,

I would check with a music Attorney- they’ll be more subjective than what the music sounds like. Granted, it needs to be listened to.

What state are you in ? There’s Erin Jacobson in CA - LA ar...

Very interesting, Joel. I hadn't thought of those three tips for checking so thanks for sharing them. Another one would be to post in one of the many composer forums on FB (with permission) and see if...

Karry - this is not a question of legality but rather I wanted people's thoughts about the process they go through to collect information on whether the song is too similar to another.

Joanna - have you gone the 'paid' route to do a deeper search. I have not (so far).

Joel Irwin no, not yet. If there was even a fraction of doubt on a major project though, I would instantly pay for a deep analysis/search. It might be costly but it'd be worth it.

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- Federico Gasparini
2 weeks ago

I might have the chase scene more near the front for more energy, though it does go well where it’s at.

Federico Gasparini

Thanks @Kerry Kennard

1 month ago

These instruments from Japan have very interesting and unique sounds. I once created a piece performed live on a Gu Zheng. I am not sure if it a similar instrument or the same under a different name....

Karen "Kay" Ross

4 weeks ago

This was so enjoyable - thank you so much for sharing! What kinds of films do you feel this instrument would be good for?

Sakura "Suki" Jimenez

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- Karen "Kay" Ross
4 weeks ago

Hi, Joel Irwin - You're correct. The Japanese koto was derived from the Chinese Guzheng. Thank you for sharing the performance! Except for her solo, unfortunately, I couldn't hear the Guzheng very wel...

Yup - that's common when an acoustic instrumentalist plays in a jazz ensemble without its own amp/amplification. If this had been a commercial performance, there would have been one or two mics placed...

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- Heather McNamara
1 month ago

Not so different as what happened to me in Aug of 2015 - the only time voluntarily worked off a crew. This would have been my first feature. There were a couple of flags:

1. It was a multi segment film...

1. It was a multi segment film about different aspects of cancer patients. Aside from the screenwriter whose screenplay was based on a novel, everyone else in the cast & crew worked for free. I came onto crew with the understanding I would get paid. However, the filmmaker/producer never offered me anything. I had also made an agreement up front I would write end title music which he could also use for trailers but I would get paid based on the minutes written if I didn't end up scoring the film. In reality it was a about $1,200 or so and when I left but I felt bad (shouldn't have) and let him off the hook. Here was that 5 min 18 sec track I had written before I left ( https://soundcloud.com/joelirwin/joy ).

2. While not getting paid which was my expectation joining crew was my primary reason for leaving, I was also told by the producer that there would be multiple composers assigned to different scenes. I will not score a film if the audience has no way of telling which music is mine or if the quality and 'sound' of my music is judged by other's music of which I have no control. Interestingly, the IMDB entry lists no composers other than one in music dept. for "additional music'.

3. This is one that had bothered me the most. I sent an email asking the director (also executive producer) for a slot to have a spotting session with him and anyone else having interest. He proposed a time slot that I knew wouldn't work since it overlapped another meeting in my day job. I responded it conflicted with my day job and asked for another time. I unfortunately, made a mistake and did a 'reply all' which went to all the other producers. He insisted on the slot so I went. It turned out he had no intention to spot but just wanted to show the draft film to cast and crew. He asked me to come outside along with two of the other producers and 'ambushed me' - they told me my reply all was totally inappropriate and if I ever did that again, I would be fired and blacklisted from working in Houston. To this day, I never understood what was so severe that got them so angry. As you have noted, that was point that I decided the working environment was toxic not to mention lack of pay and multiple music creation sources.

To this day there are a couple of non-tangibles for me:

1. I will not score a feature unless I get paid (at a minimum up front if the arrangement is delayed/deferred).

2. If I start scoring for any reason before a payment agreement is in place, at a minimum there must be an agreement for payment (by the minutes or fractions scored) should there be a decision to not use my music in the film. My contract also included that in the payment section as well.

3. I am OK with commercial vocal tracks be used in the film. That is common practice. I am not OK at this point in my career with supplementing my music with music from other composers - both to that film specific or using composing / music libraries. I take pride in creating a customized score which exactly fits the scenes and hit points that is also 'my sound'. That is no possible imho with 'parallel and equal composers'. Perhaps later on in my career for a large music budget where I am a 'department head' with composers working under me - but not at this point in my career.

Definitely some parallels there Joel. Good for you for putting your foot down, that feature sounds like it would have been a really toxic environment. Interesting that we both encountered difficulties...

Oooooohhh, you're talking about the "level up" phase of being a professional creative. I don't have experience with that as a composer, but I TOTALLY get being a bit more selective with your projects...

Ooh I've never heard that phrase before Kay! That's interesting, didn't realise it had a proper name or was a stage of being a professional creative. Totally agree, learning to say no (and to realise...

You are here within peers (other composers). Try one of the other lounges including introduce yourself. While you are here, are there any nuggets of your experience you want to share with the rest of...

Welcome to the community, and congrats on your move to Nashville!

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- Uchenna Okoye
1 month ago

Congrats on the gig, Uchenna Okoye! You can look up Stage 32 members by occupation here: https://www.stage32.com/people...

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