Financing / Crowdfunding

Hello. Nobody knows here any correct approach, unfortunately.

I've been involved in financing three independent films in the ultra low budget arena, all with investor money. One is called Exorcist House of Evil. $50,000 budget. Sold Domestically and Internationally with DVD, BluRay and streaming in a bunch of territories. German, Spanish and French dubs will release next year. Another was called Buds. $20,000 budget. It never sold and was recut into a short presentation version for the director's sizzle reel. I'm in prep on Christmas Cafe. $60,000. We'll shop it in the Spring for a Christmas 2018 release, most likely streaming only. You can find the Buds sizzle reel and Exorcist House of Evil full film on YouTube for free right now. EHoE has made it's domestic money and it's on YouTube as part of the distributors foreign territory sales plan. It's got over 1.7 million hits in three months.
The financier for Exorcist House is a big horror fan. My producing partner lives near him in St. Louis and helps him throw a big Halloween bash every year. They started talking about their mutual interest in horror and started talking how the real Exorcist house (the one the true story behind the book and movie was based on) was in their home town. My friend found the house and his buddy put down the whole $50k to make the film. He had a six week window to shoot in the house and called me. We wrote the film in two weeks, prepped two weeks and shot it in thirteen days.
Buds was financed by pot smoking buddies of the director who wanted to make a film in a real marijuana dispensary. We prepped and wrote for a month and shot the film in a real dispensary at night and a mansion in Encino during the day for two weeks.
Christmas Cafe is being produced by a guy who has ties to investors interested in promoting family values and lightly religious material for the holiday season to complement Hallmark and Lifetime programming with something a little more Christian themed than they usually go.
In each case, the investors had an interest in the subject matter and a social connection to the filmmakers and a desire to use some spare capital to share their interest with a wider audience. It's important to note that the financiers were not "groomed" in some shady way. Friendship and social connections came first. Then out of mutual interest and shared interest, a decision was made to fund the projects. But no one who invested ever put in more than they could afford to use as a loss against their larger investment plans. Nobody put up their house, maxed out their credit cards or borrowed from their kids' college funds.
Personally, I don't know anyone I'd go to and ask for a million dollars or ten million. But I know people who could spare ten or fifty thousand on a hobby and might go in on a project that truly interested them. But again, it's that coming-together of capital and passion that makes it happen in my opinion. Not business plans or promises of capital gains.

Nice comment David. Pavel is right though, there are many conflicting "correct" approaches. Some suggest throwing heaps of money at what they admit are failed ways to connect with the "money men" which makes no sense to me whatsoever. Others suggest you have to have a whole body of work behind you before you even dare make contact. Again, an equally absurd suggestion. You're absolutely right in stating that it is who you know and not what you know first and foremost which is going to help you get your film made. Hence being here and mixing with like-minded people is a good start in the absence of any film clubs/society or friends with a like-minded interest. My first film was made from a mutual interest and we literally planned it "on-the-fly" and just took a camera and mic and did what we could do with the limited resources we had. It's not perfect, by any means, but it has moved people and interested people so the end result is something I'm very proud of.

David, I agree. Ultimately it's just about doing it at a certain point no matter what your resources, because it's the only way to learn and get better at the craft. I know plenty of people who went to USC or UCLA or NYU film schools who never directed, wrote or produced anything beyond a short film and fell by the wayside trying to land the big fish. Or they just went down safer career paths.
To go back to Landis' initial question I think there are some wrong ways to go about fundraising though. Making a film (with the goal of making money anyway) is like starting any business: you should understand what the product is, who the market is and whether there's any margin for profit. Just as no one should open a restaurant without at least having worked in one, I think a producer should have experience on a set and in a production office and have some level of understanding of the sales end and who to take the finished product to before asking someone to part with their money. That may not mean necessarily a fleshed out business plan (though you should be able to at least write down the basics in a concrete way - budget, schedule, equipment, cast, crew, post pipeline, deliverables, contacts at target distributors/direct sales path, and comparable budgets-to-sales examples).
It's also important to be very honest and forthright - very few films (and I mean only a few percent) of films make a profit. Even if you turn out a gem, if it fails to find an audience it's not going to make back its money.
Trying to hard-sell to an investor is generally not the best approach either. It's like telemarketing. Just because someone has money doesn't mean they are looking for an investment. But one thing people with money often have is a passion. Find out what that passion is and work that into a project and see if they'd be interested in doing something about that.
Pavel, I understand your frustration. From all the hype, you probably have the impression that there's a lot of money floating around Hollywood and people are looking to lavish millions of dollars on new ideas and voices. It happens. But it is extremely rare. Most of the time, the hype is generated by unscrupulous people who play on your hopes and dreams to make a quick buck off you. Learn this lesson early: if someone asks you for money, they don't have any of their own and won't be funding your project. If someone says they can get money, but they can't pay you now, they won't ever have money. If you do find someone with money, remember that they got that money from other people; if you are lucky they will see your project as a way to get more money out of other people while giving you as little money as possible. And there is some good advice on this site. Use your own common sense to judge what's worth listening to. And never give up on your dreams. But be realistic. When we start out, we're all Garage bands looking for the first real gig. Most of us have to play some Bar Mitzvahs to get to Carnegie Hall.

Thank you Pavel, David, and... David for taking the time to respond. I am very grateful! I've been on professional sets for years and know the production side very well. After producing some indie work on my own dime I realized there's another side I don't know (but continue to investigate and explore).
David Trotti, your comments make a lot of sense. I'm not a fan of the "hard-sell," either. Thank you for being so candid and concise. Those social connections make a lot of sense and I feel like I just had an epiphany because it makes so much sense.

I do not ask Dan for money, even if I die. You yourself are sticky and do not have to write nasty things, they'll come back to you

Moderator !!! Block this boor Dan! He only writes bad things hereModerator !!! Block this boor Dan! He only writes bad things here

For a start, Pavel didn't ask for money (not in this post anyway!). He merely made an observation which Dan has jumped upon with nothing but negativity and abuse. For someone who's own "bio" is full of nonsense and details nothing but failure, hiding his true "successes" and real identity as detailed on IMDB and elsewhere, telling someone else to "put up your bio" is somewhat hypocritical methinks. I don't often agree with CJ Walley but I have to agree with his sentiments detailed in another post about Dan's comments and attitude.

Yawn. Who is CJ? Pavel, you haven't mentioned anything about your track record or the amount of money you are seeking? What is the amount and how much skin do you have in? Share the dream. If it is just about you, your dream is too small for strangers to care and share their information.

This is a mixture of Art and Karma, through that filter Art will succeed.

And what do they use ??

Personal contacts mostly.

Word of mouth. It's always someone that knows someone...

It's who you know.

I agree. Then why this site in principle?

Well this site certainly makes it easier for MOST but not all. The veteran's (people that have been doing it for a long time) are not going to migrate to a more modern platform. They are going to continue to do what they've been doing for years. And that world is separate from this world.

Mainly due to so few films actually making money

Agree with Jon on this one. 10% is not much to be asking of you - looking for investors now on a project myself with an award winning horror screenplay, a business plan, film incentives, LOI from a "name" talent and 10% already in - so send those people my way! I would love to have them. Seriously, though, you have to have some degree of financial commitment to show you are serious, that you stand to lose something as well - best of luck to you!

Thanks all any EP's out there or investors send them my way

I've written a TON of articles on the work of film finance. Here's a list, if it helps: https://www.facebook.com/notes/8-sided-films/chapter-2-of-the-developmen...

I came across some material from John Cones. His specialty was getting funding for films. Hope this helps and guides you: http://www.filmfinanceattorney.com

We created animated film in 2D and later 3D. Financing is almost impossible unless you have a signed agreement to sell your short film with a large advance payment. Without that, start saving and securing money each and every week however you can to build up a "secured budget" for your movie. Never sell things you need like your car or home or max out your credit cards unless you can absolutely repay them. Write me once you have money saved up and have an idea what you need. I can always obtain 2D 3D CGI and SFX high-quality animation at very good rates.- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
We started with 2D animation in the early 1990’s and added 3D CGI, motion graphics, editing, sound work and post production with compositing and SFX a decade later. Then, we went back to live-action documentaries, live-action features and serialized digital content. 170+ completed award-winning projects (2 Emmys; no Oscars but many awards worldwide) have since premiered in theaters, on MTV, SpikeTV, CNN, IFC, British TV, Indian TV, Japanese TV, Pakistani TV, History and Cartoon channels, and also on the Internet. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
2001-02 - SAY HELLO - our first 2D animated music video for cell phones goo.gl/m7LBW6 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
2004 -THE MIND CHAIR - animated trailer for his proposed 3D feature by my former student, Ian Tetrault goo.gl/fxKx9Y - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
2005 - METHOD ACTING - the first of nine short 2D films animated for Cablevision and Rainbow Media’s Independent Film Channel goo.gl/yfZEDb - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
2003 - 2007 - Scenes from some of our early 2D animated films are still up on our old FLASH website: After 2007, most of our work is 3D www.graphissimo.com - - - - - - - - filmtiq@gmail.com

Jordan, have you seen any animated short films on Netflix? Not made by one of the major companies...

And the operative word here is "short."

And our film it will finance?https://www.slated.com/films/204857/team/

I'm afraid I chased Mr 'Bryan Stuab' away after asking him (and his 'partners' - one which still is on Stage32) their ID's.
I found Mr Stuab's Stage32 profile picture on a Polish dating site. Perhaps the good man was into Polish women... it happens. But the moment he e-mailed me his ID he changed his profile picture here. He presents himself as a team of three people. One of their ID's was so poorly faked I'm inclined to post a screenshot of it as it's rather funny to look at. He's not from Canton, Michigan. This gentleman has a company in Dallas, Texas. The address was 'Bryan St', which is, of course, a STREET and not a gentleman who likes Polish women and funding movie projects. Because one of the executive producers of my movie was a federal agent whom I bcc'd all correspondence I thought it would be nice to mention this to Mr Bryan Street.
And then he was gone. Poof. Ergo he never existed.
But the man behind Mr Street still is here.

Of course, maybe I am wrong and he's just waiting to fund everything and only wanted to scam me. Can't rule that out :)

This "Bryan Stuab" has been suspended from S32. ;)

Just as I thought, Aldous. Good one for doing proper due diligence. Or maybe there's some Polish women out there looking to fund movies? :)

The man who actually created this fictitious Bryan Stuab character is still active on S32.

There must be a few people here who, like myself, wouldn't mind having their movie fully funded: it is very tempting when somebody dangles half a million in front of your face: in your head you are already on set yelling action :)
Because there don't seem to be any upfront fees.
And then comes the 'Good Faith Deposit' of USD 3000,-. Most people know better but some of us may be inclined to wire those 3000 dollars because... well, you can be making your movie within a few weeks!

I'd suggest this gentleman should seek his entertainment elsewhere.
Or, just leave him operate here but I feel sorry for the ones who will actually wire the money; there are always a few. I almost did it. It was the lure of finally resuming production.

If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

10 mill USD (roughly 500 Mill Rubles) is a decent budget considering Melnitsa making film between 3-7 for each film. I bet it's 50/50 when it comes to final stages of financing. Putin gave 500 mill USD. Where is the rest of the money?

Here it is and ask him. Are there other users here ??

For sure I will ask. Do you want me to mention your name? Powerful connection and source of finance and distribution.

You can also mention the name. But I do not see the matter in the name at all. We already have letters of interest from 5 actors, there is a good script and an undisclosed financial plan.

^^^^Fantastic. What is the budget? Any money already on board?

Studios and established production companies have relationships that allow for the full control of projects from inception to distribution that keeps the money flowing into them, and minimizes revenue sharing with third parties. You can only play that game if you already have hundreds of millions or billions of dollars and the relationships and employees that can make it happen. Internally there is also the concept of Soft Dollars where a Studio finances its own Production company to make a movie, then distributes it through its own distribution arm and sales organization. At every stage, the company takes a "loss" so that the final project turns little or no profit. It's a form of legalized money laundering I suppose. That's how big $200 Million movies can make money (and even $30 Million studio pictures).
Independent filmmakers can not play that game. They ultimately have to go to the distributors and fight for distribution. But because all the big studios suck up most of the screens with block busters and studio pictures, indies rarely get theatrical releases. Without a theatrical release, you are straight to video and streaming and foreign sales, which are notoriously for pillaging the profits with fees, unreported revenue and outright piracy.
The current range where an indie film stays profitable is in the $200,000 to $500,000 range. And that's with at least one name star in it and a good script and hook. But even then your investors might not make any profits (if they even get their investment back at all). It's hard to ask an investor to part with tens of millions of dollars with no chance of getting more than pennies on the dollar back. But it is possible to find a group of mildly wealthy investors who need to take a loss to avoid hitting the next tax bracket this year. It's not quite money laundering, but it's a way of keeping the government for getting it all anyway. Might as well make a movie.

Thank you, David, for your kind response! I agree with what you wrote. That is, our path is to look for investors who need tax incentives for 1 million bucks?

Search for them in the search section and network.

That is anywhere ?? Here, all such replies are written * ??

Self funding sounds like it will not be your route. Although, if you can get some people involved with your film: co-writers and directors, actors with well-off siblings or parents, etc. then you can ask each that is involved to contribute a little that will add up to a lot. Depending on the size of your project this could raise enough to shoot a micro-budget film.

Crowdfunding is a good one, especially if you do in in steps: pre-production campaign, then production campaign, then post-production campaign and finally festival/distribution campaign. I am currently at the beginning of this process and do not have much feedback as of yet, but I am very hopeful.

Product placement is another good one. I am also currently at the beginning/networking stages of this as well and I am again hopeful. I believe there was even a webinar that Stage 32 just offered on this subject which is an "on-demand download".

Hope this helps :-)

D, I don't think that you would need a teaching certificate but the school may need a certified teacher on board your project. Also, most communities have Public Access Television stations that fall under the 501c3 umbrella (often in conjunction with a school.)

Contact The Film Collaborative, they have also a distribution arm that will consider your finished film. Best luck

Find a fiscal agent. That's a non-profit that will act as your sponsor. Then he can donate the money to them. You will end up falling under their charter and you should be making the film for them to exploit, not yourself, but that's how you get around this.

Does he own a business? Could you advertise something for him? Not a donation but a business expense. You don't need a lawyer, you need an accountant.

www.nyfa.org Once you are tax deductible the person is no longer an investor, but a donor.