Composing

Really groovy question, Nick. I don't have THE GRADUATE at my fingertips, and can't confirm the "no score" bit, but it's a good candidate. HAROLD AND MAUDE jumped into my brain but I believe Cat Stevens may have written original material in addition to the songs he gave them.

Woody Allen is known as far as I know to not use composers in his films - only pre-recorded commercial tracks (often from the 1930s to the 1950s). Check out his early films - his first feature, for example from 1960 "Horray For Love" does not have a composer listed in IMDB (though without watching we can't tell for sure).

greetings. my email JDvdMnyn@aol.com

Thanks Nick! Here's a link to my composer's reel https://soundcloud.com/kentkarlsson/sets/composer-reel

Hi Nick, hope you’re well? Feel free to hit joegaluszka.co.uk/music in your search bar- would love to hear your thoughts !

I have a huge catalogue of eclectic royalty-free music I would love to see in the community's productions: www.soho.live/nathan

Hello Nick! Here is my soundcloud playlist with many different sounds, textures and emotions. Thanks, Federico.

https://soundcloud.com/fukahire-films/sets/fukahire-soundtracks

Rosalind Winton Socks Whitmore I would assume it would eventually be a paid job as I currently have over 7 producers interested in two of my projects and I am looking for songs for the series. I already co-wrote one with a grammy-winning producer in Nashville which I know will win a Grammy as well. Looking for opening songs for the two family-oriented shows. If you can actual links this would be great so I can listen to your stuff. Thank you much

Kacee

I did put the link to my web page in my post, but I don't think it worked, here it is again.. http://www.onevoiceliteraryagency.com/my-music-and-other-projects.html - thank you for explaining, that's all fine. As well as the music videos I have on my website, I also have a vast catalogue of songs, so I can send you some others if you would like me to do so, so you can get more of an idea of what I can do. I have sent you a private message with more information :)

Kacee DeMasi Cool! I have a number of samples on my website's music page at https://sockswhitmore.com/composer, and more throughout the rest of my site. You're welcome to PM me as well to talk further!

Maybe I can help. I've been writing popular songs for over 12 years. If lucky, I can write potential hit songs.

I'm new here so I don't have a complete profile. You can check my SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/ianlavesores, Twitter: twitter.com/ianlavesores, LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/en/christianlavesores

Hi Kacee! Drop me an message with the lyrics & the mood of the documentary. I'm sure I can help compose/produce something (& can also source additional musicians or singers if required) https://www.soho.live/nathan

Hi Alan Anibal. Start by reading this Stage32 blog from Elena Maro

https://www.stage32.com/blog/How-to-Negotiate-a-Composer-Agreement

Thanks for the question and the love, and thank you Navid Lancaster for the suggestion of the blog! The biggest concern is just making sure you have the right to use the music. After that, whether or not you pay them guild rates is more a matter of where the film will end up and if they have to be union in order to be distributed in that fashion.

Thank you Guys! This content is very useful!

Thank you so much Joel! I really appreciate it!!!!

GREAT advice, Joel Irwin , especially #3!

Chris. I actually like your song Today.

Thank you Tim! I really appreciate it!!!!

Chris. where have you been? Did you look at the monologue you requested?

Karl - learning from the masters is crucial to growth. In addition to the 'obvious', don't forget to read classic texts like Nelson Riddle's arranging book

https://www.amazon.com/Arranged-Nelson-Riddle/dp/0897249542/ref=sr_1_1?d...

or Mancini's

https://www.amazon.com/Sounds-Scores-Practical-Professional-Orchestratio...

There are countless examples of groups and performers in the modern pop industry who are 'followers' and those who are 'pacesetters'. You can make money and have impact both ways. The question is - do you want to create your own sound and brand or do you want to 'sound like' someone else (or do you want the sound like to eventually become a brand)?

BTW - to this day, while there are so many highly effective orchestrations in film, I still think one of the best I have ever heard was done by Nelson Riddle - especially with the strings and horn. You can learn so much just by listening to this (and yes - this actually came from a film, https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057840 - music by johnny mandel and johnny mercer)

https://youtu.be/kvLTsJdX0V4

Some thoughts on the "Work for me for free" approach. Please don't take this personal:

1. an absolute beginner wanting to build up their portfolio might agree with making music for a shortfilm for free (IMO). On the other side, hiring an unexperienced composer might be a boomerang: production issues, deadline issues - and you can't really complain because you are not offering any compensation.

2. It is very difficult for me to believe that the budget for original music in any film is really zero. How could one justify it? "We can't pay for your music because we have to pay the taxi to the first actress / the pizza service / the ink to print the script"? In that moment, the reaction would be "if you pay for the pizza, you pay for the music; if you want to save money, don't make a film".

3. If the folks are not getting any money for the music, can you offer least a "donation receipt" that they can deduce from taxes? If not, we might have a credibilty issue here (how real is the producer's interest in that music? This is not longer about the money, is about recognition).

4. Are composers receiving back-royalties from the music included for ever? If yes, those royalties might compensate the lack of upfront money and the deal might slowly be etically acceptable.

5. Is the music used on an exclusive basis or non-exlusive? Is the composer retaining all rights on the music, also publishing rights? Might the composer re-use the music in other projects? Might he/she put the music on Spotify and generate (small) income from it?

6. Can the director / producer guarantee such a massive exposure that it certainly compensates for the lack of fees?

Please don't hate me for my rudeness. Not too much at least.

Juan Maria

Working for exposure hardly ever works out. The amount of exposure needed to really outweigh paying someone is such a high bar that it's rare to have something like that really happen.

Trades are a bit more appropriate IF and only if the trade is actually fair. For example, I once had a guy that wanted a full soundtrack but only wanted to spend maybe 1-2 hours on some really subpar logo art in return. I turned down that offer.

At the very least, I never give my rights over to a film if they cannot pay me. I'll grant them a license to use my work in the film, sure. But the rights will always remain with me and I'll be the exclusive owner of the work. Another thought to consider is this: you can quickly become known as "the free guy/gal" by some. They'll come to you for free music and sing your praises but the moment they have actual budget, they'll drop you for a bigger name to bring that brand recognition to their project.

So from a business angle, it rarely makes sense to work for free. You can do it for a little while at the very beginning, but once you start having some credits to your name and actual experience - you need to charge.

In short: If you want to be treated as a professional, act like one. Charge what your worth. Hope that helps!!

Nathan Madsen your words remind me what my brother once told me: "never play a concert for free, because they will not call you when there is something important".

Yup! Precisely.

Hmm, I could actually try it. I do have the tools for doing just that (mostly for reviving antique films), but the end result really depends on what the original audio is like. My process would be to separate the core vocal audio and then enhance them later to restore their original vocal character. However, there is no guarantee of it working out as well as we hope, so a test with a short piece of audio should show us the possibility!

It's intended for Karaoke, but I found this article that walks you through how to take out vocals for karaoke tracks. https://www.gadgethacks.com/how-to/remove-vocals-from-any-song-make-kara...

Music always stirs up images for me, too! Also, I think with only one sense being engaged, your mind grasps for pairings (with only a stationary visual, we want to put motion to it; with only music, we want to put images to it, etc), as if our way of making sense of something. Sometimes the only thing you can do is make the thing to release it and then analyze it once it's made. Go for it!

There is constantly stuff being done both online and live. I had to bow out this past Oct to be on a competitive team. All three major cities in Texas - Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio had a 48 hour competition the same weekend. This is for example what you would look at for this competition. Don't wait to network and participate in any way you can - things will go on even during the pandemic.

https://www.48hourfilm.com/london/48hfp

Now some of the groups in the next link are not professional/industry and yet others are.

https://www.meetup.com/cities/gb/17/london/film/

Hey Joel, this is perfect for me, I’ve just signed up and should be able to navigate my way around the sites in no time.

I couldn’t be more grateful.

I’ll be sure to post any breakthroughs with regards to it all.

Thank so much for reaching out! And thank you Irwin for such a detailed response! Definitely keep tabs on the Jobs Section of Stage32: https://www.stage32.com/find-jobs I would second that - work finds you working, so say yes to everything until you are in a position to say no to the things you don't love. Keep at it and keep us posted!

Thank you Karen, another pleasant surprise having your advice.

You’ve been involved in so much great things, congratulations on it all and what’s to come.

Thanks Daniel

You are most welcome, Daniel! Glad to have you here! Keep going, and keep us posted!

Hi, Sabina. Would you like to learn more about it? I'm open to answer any questions you may have.

Such a cool project, George DeLorean! What are you up to next?

That's always fun. I've done many arrangements for rock bands when they get the chance to work with an orchestra and choir. I'll be glad when the concerts return...

Hi, Karen. I have many projects in the pipeline. I have some standalone pieces, a musical, and three operas at the minimum.

I'll be thrilled, Linwood!

Ooo, that's a really good point, Alan Anibal! I knew about the accompanist, but I didn't consider the philosophy behind vocals - that makes sense! In a way, I think that's why I love Hanz Zimmer's work. So many of the vocals don't seem like lyrics, just vocals as another instrument. What do y'all think?

Thanks for starting the conversation, sir!

For production/performance purposes, I have always treated vocalists as if they were instrumentalists. I look to put all my performers whenever possible into their best range and I try to get them to their 'sweet spots' when they are trying to 'emphasize'/shine in their solos. I also make the assumption for all my soloists, that my music (especially pop and jazz and even orchestral/classical) is a starting off point. I do not subscribe to the philosophy that only I know the best way for the music to be performed. Occasionally I will highly suggest certain tempos or ask the performers to stick to the notes on paper, but from my experience, when my performers 'interpret' my works, the outcomes often 'exceed' my expectations. The best 'pop'/rock example I can think of this is the Bob Dylan song, "Mr. Tambourine Man". You have his folk rendition and then he heard the 'electronic' version of the Byrds and suposedly did not like it. I don't know how he feels about it today, but the Byrds version went to #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart in 1965 - first Bob Dylan song ever to hit #1. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Tambourine_Man )

And as far as lyrics, I consider them no different as notes with various articulations to evoke emotions.

Interesting topic, as a singer and musician, I feel the voice is an instrument, can follow the abstract sound if needed, lyrics too, instrumental peices can enhance the mood of the screne, as intended, vocals though, touch us to a deeper level as it connects us with more than our minds, and emotions, but also to the soul. Only the voice can do this. :-)

Joanna Karselis ...that was my first impression on opening it last night! I'm not sure if I have the capacity to learn another complete software from scratch! I will take a closer look, (I have a 30-day trial) but I have my doubts!

Thanks Jonathan Price. I'll keep you posted!

Cheers Joel Irwin! Sadly I can't compare with a PC situation. I will maybe have to resort to reclaiming my MacMini for Sib 7.5 but it's a real drag to not have it running on my main comp.

Last time I checked, which was many months ago, it required separate costing licenses for each of my desktop (for my studio) and laptop (which I take on the road and for demos). That makes it pricey. Most of my software has a 2 machine license. I can't remember if dorico needs an iLok. I used to shy away from anything using it, but now I may soon start using it for EWQL (I purchased and installed in March, but haven't got around to using it). I also concur that the decision is not a 'start from scratch' but should I/you migrate from Sibelius to Dorico. Is there a 'value added' or is it just a parallel migration.

Hi how are you doing? I'm a Musescore user for years. They have just upgraded to Version 3.6. It's free by the way for both Mac and Windows.

The explanation of the upgrades will take too long for me to explain so here are the Youtube links.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLR40BGNy68

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGo4PJd1lng&t=3s

I have worked as editor in a Sao Paulo Opera theatre, at that time I used Finale. I knew all the short cuts and they would make much sense in my mind. The "SCs" were also very helpful with limited time projects.

Now I'm using Dorico, It's great! specially to sync with video! However it's a pain in the....

to type 4 and have a 8th note instead of a Quarter note. Which makes much more sense in Finale. Finale its also great but it has fallen way behind in matter of video and midi.

Thank you so much for your suggestions and comments, guys & gal!

My current arrangement is just about ready to score. FYI, I usually create an audio demo in DP first, then upon client-approval, quantize everything and export the midifile, importing it into Sib for score production. Thus the sound quality, within the notation software, is really not important. I think, for this one, I'll use the functional Sib 7.5 on my MacBook. Fortunately this arrangement is for a string ensemble, so I don't need a huge monitor either.

After, I'll have another look at Dorico, and will also check out Navid's suggestion of Musescore, which looks interesting. Though, upon reflection, it would be nice to open past Sibelius projects; moving from Sib completely would not allow that option. So, Joanna's suggestion could still be the best option.

I have really appreciated your input! Stay safe, everybody!