Screenwriting : Question on characters' ages by Richard Allis

If these are features, I would treat each one independently, and not just in terms of descriptions but each having a story that can stand on its own. If this is a TV series or a series of shorts, I think you can get away with assuming familiarity in later episodes with characters introduced in the pilot or first episode.

Thank you for the help, James. These are feature films. And they're on historical subjects. I've got a couple different stories like this, and have started on another. While the next script builds on the previous in some ways, there is a definite adventure in the succeeding scripts that the viewer/reader can enjoy without having seen/read the first script. It may not be quite as meaningful, but it could be done. More like the Star Wars stories maybe, rather than the super-hero sequels.

Lisa, I was spending my time learning the art of storytelling. Not only did I write multiple scripts on the one story, but I wrote multiple stories. I figured I may as well learn to write good before I tried to sell anything.

You would definitely have to include the characters ages in the second script, however...please save yourself the time and hassle and don't write a sequel. There's no such thing as a sequel until someone else tells you there is. And there are no stories that have to be told in 2 movies. Either it's a FRANCHISE, or it's a trilogy. But usually when writers stretch a story to 2-3 films it means the first script is 80 pages of backstory and the REAL action and story is in the second script. Try to combine them and take the BEST stuff from the 2nd script and put it into the first. No one buys 2 movies.

Items sold separately. Every screenplay is a "one off", and individual story. There are no sequels or spin offs until that screenplay is made into a movie (chances about 1 in 10 after it has been purchased, and odds are about 1 in 100,000 that it will be purchased), and when the studio decides to make a sequel the odds are that the original writer will not be hired. At that point a half dozen other writers have been involved and the screenplay may not resemble the sales draft in any way... different genre, locations, characters, etc! So the studio hires a different writer based on the resulting movie. It's not just pointless to write sequels to your own work, it's potentially damaging because you are telling the same story with the same characters and not moving on and learning. You lose the "cross training" of writing about completely different situations and completely different people. If the average pro writer wrote 9 features before making a cent as a feature writer, doing a sequel to your own work is just increasing the number of screenplays you will have to write before you sell something because you are essentially writing one longer screenplay instead of 9 different screenplays. Not advised.

Danny, (and maybe some William), one trilogy and one two-parter are already written, so that damage is already done. A second trilogy is two-thirds written. And another two-parter has been planned out. The problem I had with the first script of the trilogy wasn’t so much too much backstory. The characters were setting out on their journey on the opening page. All you needed to know was that they were going somewhere. The problem I had was keeping the interest going through the first 30 pages, while introducing a large number of characters who were making incremental moves toward the “official” beginning of the story. How I tackled that was to have the main protagonist state what he wanted to do on about page 15, instead of later. The protagonist’s “want” on page 15 will evolve and grow naturally into his later “wants”. At least to my eyes, simply putting that “want” on page 15 greatly improved my interest in reading the first 30 or so pages. A problem with part two of the planned two-parter is that the action scenes will fade away as the lead character gets older. But I believe I have a theme that can tie together the action scenes and the older-age scenes. And there’s even a place that the transition can begin before the action scenes are all gone, so there’s not the “shock” of a brand-new story. I think I have been working at this long enough to be able to tell when too much backstory is one of my problems. As well as being able to identify other problems with the whole of the story. In part from the advice I have been reading to other writers here on Stage 32. As far as writing 2-3 part history scripts: it aggravates me to no end to see a historic epic movie where the ending has absolutely no basis in history. And it was all just because somebody wanted to cut down the story down to one movie. I realize that history, and real life, don’t usually adapt perfectly to screenplays and stuff has to be done to facilitate the story. But I do take pains not to be so blatant about it. I do realize that a two- or three-parter will be an even tougher sell than normal scripts, but this planned two-parter of mine is probably the most commercially viable (subject wise) of the bunch. While I work on writing that up good the next year or two, I will polish up the basic formatting on my other scripts which I had never taken time to fully learn about until now.

William, (and maybe some Danny) I realize the odds are plenty long enough to sell a script no matter what you try to write. What I’m trying to do with two- and three-part scripts makes it even longer. Plus the fact that there aren’t that many historical movies being made, although there are some occasional ones. Plus a litany of other reasons that my scripts aren’t in the norm of what’s being produced. But considering the long odds of selling a script even when following all the rules (apparently 99,999 of us won’t), shouldn’t you just have fun writing whatever however you feel like writing anyway? Even if you never sell a script and become an A-list writer, at least you’ll have enjoyed the process a whole lot more. While the original writer tends not to work on the sequel, I, as the original writer, would like to make sure all the connections between each of the different scripts of the story are made. Then they are done and pointed out for whatever future writers to at least notice and do what they want with. As far as “cross training”, I’ve written three separate stage plays, one of which was an adaptation and produced, as well as one of the other stage plays. I joined a local film group a two years back and am close to completing my 8th short script, two of which have been filmed, one of those being edited, the other starting to make it’s way around to some of the film festivals. In those two years, I also co-wrote one web series, and assisted writing on a second - really in more a supportive role. I have one feature length fictional script completed, to go with a historical trilogy, a historical two-parter, and another ⅔ complete trilogy. On top of that, I taught myself story construction by adapting 30 various period action/mysteries that I liked. Yes, I went well overboard with that, but there were so many cool stories I liked and wanted to write up that I had to make a concerted effort to break that habit and work on original stuff. (I have zero plans to try to sell them as I do not have permission to. The vast majority of them remain 300+ page first drafts. No sense in bothering to try to cut them down until there is financial incentive.) So while all that work was “not advised”, I had fun doing it all anyway. And now I am now incorporating that wealth of knowledge into all my old scripts, while learning some formatting technicalities that I did not know.

Danny & William, I would like to thank you both for giving me the opportunity to defend my ideas/actions as I am sure I will need to practice if/when I try to sell to a producer/studio head/whomever. My plan is to get more of my short filmed and circulating the festivals. My writing of the shorts has improved greatly even since that first one got filmed. If that one could make some festivals, I would think that my chances with future shorts is at least pretty good. Get my name circulating around festivals, showing and generating interest in the history I love to write about, while I work on this more commercially-viable two-parter that I have planned out, should hopefully ease at least some of the resistance I will receive when trying to sell these multi-part, epic features. It is a plan. Besides, even if you follow the rules correctly, the danger is your script will look like everybody else’s. And then it’s a crapshoot to whose gets filmed. Plus, the audiences will get tired of the same stories all the time. At least, eventually they will. Further, isn’t the old adage “If it’s good, it will sell”? Without any other qualifications added to it? Anyway, thank you both for your input. It’s helping me see what I will be up against.

What Danny and William said. But if you're writing for the sheer delight of putting words together, just do what feels good and be happy. If your goal is to break in as a feature screenwriter, then it's back to Danny and William.

Lisa, thanks for the suggestion, but I already got my information from various history books, as well as all the websites I could find on the subjects. I’m not really interested in turning the idea back into a book, even though it would be a somewhat fictionalized with my personal thoughts, feelings and ideas on the subjects. As well as storytelling techniques to cover gaps in the story. Even though I adapted all those novels, I don’t really know the rules and nuances about novel writing. I’ve always written dialogue in stage play or screenplay form.

Richard, I want both, but I am not putting all my eggs in the trilogy historical epic basket. I’ve got the shorts, a stand alone fictional script, and one of my stage plays is also adapted into a screenplay (and I don’t want to get into the problems I’ll face with that one here). I have another history subject researched out that I can keep down to a single script. But all this will take time. Which is fine with me for right now. I’m not looking to break into the business tomorrow (as cool as that might be). Right now, I’m really only interested in learning the formatting technicalities that I don’t know yet. Everything else in it’s own time.

Hi Richard: Everything Bill said, plus: once you sell the first spec it (the story and characters) will be owned by the person/entity that you sell it to, so you will be unable to sell the next two specs because you will no longer hold the rights (in most cases . Once the other party owns the rights, should they chose to make a sequel they don't have to buy your sequel or offer you a dime for it, because at that point you no longer have the right or the leverage to even show anyone else those two specs. Now, that's not to say that you can't try to sell them outright as a trilogy, and let's say the first one is amazing on its own to be worth purchasing all three at a bargain price, they can still immediately fire you after your initial deal is made and you still lose the other two specs. Refusing to sell one without all three is a definite negative from the purchasers point of view-- they want to make a film, not necessarily be attached to a long term deal with unreasonable expectations. That's one of the reasons others are suggesting that you not spend time on writing the other two until you've sold the first, because essentially you will not walk away with three films getting made. It's very rare. These are all general statements and there are of course deals negotiated where the writer retains some rights, but as a first time writer (from a selling point of view) your power will be limited. They will hold the golden ticket that gets you into the party. It's your writing career, and you can do whatever you want, but in the future it might benefit your career more to have three different specs that you can sell to more than one person, increasing your odds in the process. I will say that I have a spec with a trilogy in mind. It's high concept that lends itself to more than one. I have a rough outline for the second and third and at the end of the first spec after we hit "FADE OUT" I begin a new scene which is the opening of the next installment. It's less than one page and designed as a teaser-- showing that the story goes on. I'm also going to write a one hour pilot for cable after the first of the year, because several people have encouraged me to consider that the concept has legs enough for a series, so that might be something you might consider as well-- break it up into an 8 episode miniseries, rewrite the opening as a pilot and pitch it that way... just food for thought. Keep an open mind. Good luck, and I hope you come back and tell us you've sold all three. Lisa My opinions are just that... opinions, feel free to disregard all of it.

Thank you for your comments, Lisa. I have had in the past the idea of making some of these a mini-series for HBO or someone, like they did John Adams. I also like your idea about the page teaser and a following outline for part 2's of future multi-script projects. That would cut down a whole lot of work for that planned 2-parter I'm going to work on next year. And also the trilogy I'm 2/3 the way through already. But I've got 2 complete multi-script projects that pretty much just need some polishing up to do something with. I guess it's good in a way that I wrote them out, because now I know I can do it. Now saving time in the future seems like an even better idea right now. Thanks again.

PS Lisa, it might be a little while before I even try to sell anything. At least a year, while I write part 1 of one story, and hopefully a stand alone history story. And get everything I possibly can polished up to feel good about putting stuff out there. -- But anything I sell, I'll be sure to post it here.

Well you could consider 'taking a break' from the trilogy, even if you are already 2/3 the way through. I mean, it's not like you DON"T KNOW what's going to happen, you do. And you could have another script in the pipe in the amount of time it would take to finish it. The story will always be there waiting for you. Your first concern is to sell installment number one. If you do sell it, and they're interested in #2, you'll have plenty of time to finish it. Besides taking a year off from a project while working on another can bring new ideas and opportunities to the table simply by the time and new experienced gained by time away. I think it was Christopher Nolan who said he had worked on and off on Inception for 10 years. Every year he would become a better story teller until the moment when he was able to finally break the story. Something to think about. Cheers--

I agree with everything you just said. But you misunderstood a little bit. My multi-script projects list stacks up like this: one complete trilogy (polishing notwithstanding); one complete two-parter; one trilogy 2/3 the way through (which I'm not currently working on); a planned two-parter (of which I will only write part one + a page teaser/outline for part two; and a planned stand alone. It is the completed projects that I am currently polishing and learning what I need to about formatting. Part 3 of that 2/3 complete trilogy will likely get that same page teaser/outline as the other I'm doing. Part 3 is actually less connected to the first two, than the first two are to each other. So that's a bit like a bonus, I guess. Part 3 could actually stand alone if it needed to. I too, spend a long time working on these projects, and switching back and forth between them when I get burnt out on one and need a break from it. Plus, I've got all sorts of notes on other projects too, but just not enough yet to really consider making into a script. Plenty I could do, either researching or writing. I built stuff up like this so I could switch between writing and researching as I pleased. I wasn't happy when finished researching a single project because I was in "gear" to research. I had to switch gears and get into writing mode. Which took some time. And vice versa too. Now when I get burned out on one, I can switch to the other and not have so much down time in between. :-) Thanks for all the advice you're giving!!!

Just for everybody’s information: I’ve decided to wait to try to sell my two completed multi-part historic epics until I get a couple other stand-alone’s or “just first-parters” done and, maybe with my fictional stand alone as well, shop those around first. Get my foot in the door a little bit, or a lot, then try to sell those multi-parters as one. I think I wrote the first drafts to those back in the mid-90’s. It was before I started saving and dating each draft. So it’s not like I mind sitting on them a little longer. It wasn’t until 2003 that I had a good draft of anything. Then I improved old scripts and wrote new ones until about the spring of 2009. I then spent the next 5 years researching anything and everything that turned my fancy history-wise. The last couple of years, I added learning how to write short scripts. And probably beginning in January, I will start in earnest on my first full feature (part one of the planned two-parter) since 2009. Wrap up what I can of various other stuff until Christmas, so I have more room in my brain to concentrate on the “part one feature”. Thank you to everyone’s input above. There is good information in there that I did not know, and probably wouldn’t have known to ask. But, at least at this writing, I must confess to a little bit of mixed feelings because the train ran kind of wild off the original track of searching for a bit of technical advice. :-) Do all lounge posts take off like this?? But I do have a better thought-out long-term strategy, and before I go to sleep tonight. So I do thank all of you!!!