Screenwriting : Do you preplan your novel or screenplay or do you write from the gut? by Aray Brown

To me, an outline is like vegetables, probly good for me but ugh! I start with a "great" idea. Think it over for a few weeks then dive in full steam. I create as I go. For me personally, planning murders my creativity, but I do see where it helps others. I also find my story writes itself once I've established my characters. They take on life as if I am Dr. Frankenstein. RIP gene wilder.

For me, too much time spent with outlinines or treatments does blunt the writing and I end up losing something. My best scripts seem to have been the ones I churned out fast and furious, writing straight from the "gut". Which isn't to say I write with no idea where my story is going. I usually mull over an idea in my head for quite awhile and have a mental outline before I start. And I always know my ending.

Proof positive, there are no rules, just tools

I've done both. My better ones are the ones that I've outlined or put the beats down (no I'm not a rapper!). When I do write from the gut, I can usually tell when some action should happen at certain points. Probably because I'm old enough, read enough stories, watched enough television and movies to "feel" when plot elements should be there.

I didn't feel like the outline or beats slowed my creativity down. In fact on a few, it helped me clarify some story elements that I might have missed just winging it.

Actually there are work rules to writing professionally. I dont know a single WGA television staff Writer in America who wings a TV script. 0.

Peeps collaborate, work on story beats. Writers' rooms have big cork boards of progress. Production staff plan casting, build sets & budget. Good luck "sneaking" in additional characters, location sets & scenes.

there are no rules when your writing is a hobby.

Dan's got it exactly! Writing for hobby, doesn't matter. For TV, for sure it matters! I'm taking Larry Brody's class and he's able to tell if you've outlined your story or not. He's been there and that's what they do. If you don't learn how to do it, you won't get into a TV writers room without knowing how to do it right.

Anybody else feel like Dan needs a hug? He gives great advice often but he's got a little angry baseball coach thing going on. Nothing but love to you Dan, I just worry you need to get a kitten or something.

Okay. One exception. David E Kelly "wing it" for Ally McBeal. He hand wrote every episode on yellow legal pads. Met every writing deadline from his malibu home.

Name your kitten Rosebud.

And my comment was in reference to features. definitely need more planning for TV writing.

I rely on outlines actually

travis

I'm good with coffee. Go rent my movies and do the opposite :)

I'm going to make a presidential move here and just keep insisting I'm right and you are wrong until my way becomes magically okay.

Dan working on a tv show is a collaborative effort that would, of course, require outlines and such. Totally different than writing on one's own.

And like any writing tool, I think a writer can best determine when to use an outline. Just because I choose not to most of the time doesn't mean I don't know how to create an outline. If I were to land a job writing for a tv show, it would certainly be something I would use, because it is a collaborative venture and you are working with other writers, execs, etc.

I was once referred to as a writing tool.

ALWAYS plan. Tons, and tons, and tons of outlines, research, etc. Then when I sit down to write the script I know where I'm going. I rarely ever get writer's block anymore. When I do, it's pretty clear where I messed up in my outlining. I've found this massively cuts down on the amount of rewrites. Plus the people that hire me typically like to see lots of outlines before we take the time to commit to a script.

I am not naive enough to believe I have a fully formed story or even enough of a story to write it completely in a single document. I'll have a starting point, which normally isn't the start, just a spark and work out from there. I do a draft and let the story go where it needs. I then refine what needs in various rewrites and passes. Some people will always find something you do and shoe horn it into their terms. Whatever you need to do to get your story out do it. I've worked with various professionals in various industries and they all have different processes. My brother has even had his own TV show (written and starred in it), different process again.

Never understood the notion of writer's block. I've always felt it was just the fear talking and the only cure is more writing.

Travis Sharp Sharp or dull? The difference is important.

Depends on the time of day.

Just as Leonardo and other great painters sketch first, I always do an outline. A screenplay isn't a finished form, it's a part of a much larger thing called a movie and that part has to fit (so planning and measuring is a good idea).

The folks who do outlines get paid. The folks who dont outlines write for free.

Decide for yourselves which group you want to join.

Or choose group C- self publish & make your own movie.

Oh come on Dan. That's a bit black and white. Doing outlines doesn't magically put you in the category of getting paid. Yes, you need to know how to do an outline in order to meet the needs of those paying you (don't know about you but I learned how to outline in 7th grade) IF you are hired to write a script for someone. Because yes, it's very likely you'll be asked to create an outline/treatment, etc as part of your contract.

Until such time as a person is getting paid however, they can do whatever the F they want, whatever their process may be. Writing outlines before you write your spec (which prob won't ever sell anyway) isn't going to open some mythical door.

Jody

I dont worry bout you. I know you know how to write

Everyone hopes for the best, indeed at the end..

Dan M, that's quite a blanket statement. Reductional. :/

Beth

I had to look up "reductional". My bad. Back to my cubicle :(

Haha! ;)

I take copious notes while researching (a lot, usually), so outlining isn't necessary - creating scenes from the notes, then fleshing-out those notes, and rearranging them (if necessary) is the outline. That being said, I also notate scenes I need between those I have - such as when I have the beginning scene and end scene, but not the rising action between.

The only time I have ever outlined is when I tried to co-author a novel years ago. The woman with whom I collaborated was very into outlining, and character grids, and plot point diagrams or whatever - the whole thing. We had outlines, tables, charts and graphs, character profiles - but no real story. It was all structure and it took any life the project might have had out of it. We did not finish the novel. There has to be some spontaneity, some spark, and knowing literally everything about everything before you start makes it a mechanical process, which comes through in the writing. If it works for you, great! But it doesn't work for me.

Oh my god, CH, That kind of outlining makes my head hurt just thinking about it. I mean, let's take a beautiful creative force like writing and turn it into....accounting. Lol.

Right!? And honestly, I really thought it was going to work. I'd never done it before and she was sooo professional about the entire thing that I thought, "Okay, this must be How It's Done." She (well we ) spent months preparing that stuff. I lost touch with her years ago; no idea if she did anything with it. She was working on another accounting project, too. She was doing the same with it. :D

I don't think she could write. I think she did all that stuff to avoid actually putting her behind in the chair and writing. Our phonebills were outrageous, and we were constantly IMing on AOL.

CH I see a lot of people doing that. They spend months (years!) outlining, talking about things, notecarding, all to avoid doing any actual writing. At some point you have to sit down and do the work (and trust me, I'm queen of procrastination, lol)

Aray: I don't have any set methodology. Sometimes I start writing and go for fifty pages before I stop. However, I've worked with a synopsis, full treatment, outline of scenes and the aforementioned seat of my pants. No matter what process I use, many ideas pop up during the scriptwriting.

Philip, I'm the same way. Every writer is different. I wrote my pilot without an outline, even though it's inspired by my book. I've gotten feedback from it that's let's me know I'm on the right track. I've also had success with stories I've outlined, in the past. The rule is not to run off tangent