Filmmaking / Directing : Storyboards or Shotlists, for pervis by Vincent Turner

@Vincent thanks for your share. Story board and shot list are useful preliminary tools but not final blue print cos everything grows and changes in real time on set. (As your post above points out.). It’s interesting that different directors who have a track record, all have different methods. I worked under an Indie Director and Hollywood director, both of whom NEVER do a master shot. They didn’t believe in them cos they thought it set actors in stone and limited their imagination. On the other hand I been under directors who ALWAYS do master shot in case all else fails. Art I suppose, is horses for courses.

Supposedly, Director Bong Joon-Ho storyboards every camera shot exactly like it's going to be filmed on-set w/ actors and crew.

Boards and a shotlist are essential for animation. For live action in real locations, nothing beats scouting with a still camera and standins. Block and rehearse with the DP, A.D and director using standins and you all will be on the same page and know every possible issue about filming in that location way in advance of your shoot. Including audio issues, set dressing. All of it. This isn't always possible because of everyones schedules but it really is a huge time saver on the day. Your boards are only concepts and once you get on location, you'll find it's often impossible to get exactly what you pictured. Unless you're working on a stage and you build the set yourself or your shoot is entirely mocap and done in Blender/IClone etc.

Boards are an important tool that allows creatives to make an iterative pass at the visual storytelling before going into shooting. They let you know where your ideas suck and give you a chance to make them better. It's not a coincidence that high end directors known for their striking visuals and imaginative storytelling use storyboards.

@ALL Personally I always storyboard and shotlist but although they are not necessarily a blueprint for performance on day, they are definitely a "Marriage" of my psychological intent for execution of film. Minor example only. A storyboard picture predicting danger, is not just the essence of the actor or the frame or environment, how its technically depicted in the shot makes a VAST difference. An actor can scream jeopardy but the DOP can increase the feeling or even the opposite, make it look comedy. A slow moving and circling glide cam around character, (in certain circumstances) will speak "Sinister, Impending, Doom" even more than sound of bombs etc. (minor example yes but I could ramble on in great depth.)

Personally I feel any film is juxtaposition of talents all across the board. Another big factor to consider, time is money, low budget does not have the luxury of days to experiment with blocking and ideas of key scenes. "Let's do it this way, or that way." Whether one is low budget Indie or Big Studio it would be foolish not to plan, in any scenario the more preparation you have, the more chances for improvement on the day and preparation costs nothing. A plan is NOT a bible, off course but to walk on set without one is facing the terror of uncertainty, especially if you are on a set with crew you don't know and they're not on your wave length. This is part of film The Graduate's storyboard 1960's. Although it was yonks ago, they did an interesting Match/Jump cut where Dustin Hoffman jumped in pool and landed in Mrs Robinson's bed. STAY SAFE AND DO COOL WORK.

Above comment on The Graduate.

Another storyboard page from Taxi Driver. 1976. This one's interesting, cos note in one window there is just a gun.

I always do both. Usually I sit down with my DP Leya Kokoravec and we figure out a quick shot list on the bases of the location scout sketches and photos. Then when we approximately know what and how we want to show, she creates the story boards and I create the shot list and plan which serve as a schedule as well and a reference.

By this time we all pretty much know what we need to do and the shot list, schedule and story boards are there just to keep us focused and on schedule.

Only sometimes do we have to readjust a few shots a little because of a better detail that we missed in the location scout and very rarely do we have to add shots but we do sometimes combine some shots into one on site when we figure out the blocking. I mean it happens that we add a shot but usually it's an insert shot or B roll and almost never coverage and even these shots are planed in the shot plan so that we keep to schedule.

We've actually never gone over schedule and have almost always finished before time, even the one time that everything went wrong and we had three hours of down time due to talent being stuck at the border, but we just reorganized the schedule and worked on other parts of the schedule and still finished the day with two hours to spare.

Thanks for this conversation starter, Vincent Turner ! Love the participation and discourse Debbie Croysdale Simon Turnbull M L. Dan MaxXx I also like using location stills to facilitate or even take the place of storyboarding. I remember hearing how George Clooney took 4 months to storyboard "Confessions of a Dangerous Mind", his directorial debut, and thought, 'DAMN! I mean, props to that level of detail, but DAMN!" LOL!

My question to y'all is - do you hire a storyboard artist or attempt to do the storyboarding yourself? And how much do you involve the DP in the preparation of either? I have opinions, but I'd like to hear from y'all first ;-)

Yeah, boards often bring out those wonderful moments, that you didn't think of until you see them. Like the pool/bed match cut from The Graduate, knee shot Luke Skywalker in FG towering above the distant mech walkers in The Last Jedi, those beautiful pans and pull focuses in Ridley Scott films. That stuff doesn't just come out of a dry typewritten shotlist.

Though I reckon you can just do stick figures. It's good for blocking in action scenes with lots of cuts. Often people get lots of coverage on action and smash it together in the edit, but I think it is very hard to get a real emotional journey within the action that way. You need to know when the scene will need a CU reaction, or an angle that puts across dominance, submission, triumph, obstacle, stuff like that.. Coverage gets you a description of a fight, but boarding gets you the emotional story of the fight.

But... if you're using lighting as a storytelling device, an artist who can do quick tonal renders is going to be invaluable.

I personally find story boarding invaluable. My DP on my last project happens to also be an animator so he would draw them while we went through the script together (over Skype, which I guess now is the norm!) Working on story boards with your DP really forces you to think carefully through each and every shot and may even uncover some script issues along the way as you decipher the motivation behind each shot. Took us 3 months...

I am curious if any one else includes these storyboards on their shot list for the day? We would use the boards as a supplement to our shooting schedule and I found it helped me and the crew tremendously. Wish Shot Lister had an option to add storyboards.

@Karen Interesting story about George Clooney's out of the box story board execution that took four months. COOL idea location stills, with you on that one! With regards to involving DP with each process, I personally get DP on board with story board and shot list at each and every stage. However, Indie projects and big studio are two different ball games with regards to how much sway an unknown director has with particular crew members. Eg On my own shoots I've total control and make sure DP is with me every step of the process. Temping on other shoots DP'S had very differing attitudes to discussing storyboards, some only looked at shot list. I both do my own storyboards AND hire if there's funds to "Guild the Lily" (Yorkshire expression) I completely agree with @Simon Yes, storyboards can certainly be done with only stick figures and emotion faces. Also you are spot on with regards that Emotion should, in many cases, accompany Action scenes in film. The look on character's faces when action occurs, could even make the difference in the actual genre of the film, between Comedy, Tragedy and Triumph. I tend to go to the fridge during prolonged action for action's sake but if I've invested my interest in a character, I'm glued to the box for the outcome of their fate or reaction. @Julian I've done similar to your example above but not the same template, a differing one with shot list and storyboard together. @All Storyboards and shot lists are the seeds of thought of the creator and should never be underestimated. I enjoyed studying storyboarding because they represent a film that's already in the ether, long before anyone shouts "Action." This example is from Empire of the Sun, coming of age, world war two film. Director Stephen Spielberg 1987.

I think it's all about progression my first film with have a complete shot list with added research. My second film with be storyboarded relying on a shot list when need be. I plan to get have an apprentice by my third, fourth, and fifth film who can do the dirty work, and I touch it over.

Karen how do you tag members?

Vincent Turner Oh, dude, I have only one answer, and it brings up three more questions LOL!

The simple answer for "How to Tag" people is to start with the @ symbol and it should naturally bring up a selection of people you can tag. Currently, it's prompting only people in this conversation, but for some odd reason, I also get a selection of other people not in the conversation. So, you can tag, but it's limited, and I'm not yet sure how it's limited. Did that help? LOL!

karen this is a great question and the answer used to be pretty binary - either you draw them yourself or you hire someone. but theres actually a third option now that ive been experimenting with. AI storyboarding tools can generate rough composition frames from your screenplay. theyre not artist quality boards but theyre more than enough to communicate shot intent to your DP. for indie stuff where you cant afford an artist but also cant draw (thats me lol) its been a game changer. the boards ive been getting are basically pre-viz quality - good enough for crew communication, not good enough for a pitch deck