Anything Goes : Developing Reality Based show by John MacNeil

People who estimate budgets (and do it from experience and do it well) charge a lot of money. Most prodCo's have people who do that. It seems odd to me that a prodCo wants you to do it. If you use a generic template you will give them generic numbers they really can't use. A production budget is a complicated thing. But there are generic budget templates out there.

I thought it was odd as well they would ask for budget information. Is this a standard for reality based shows? This is a very big network that was asking for budget breakdowns, per hour budgets, length of commercials,etc. Thanks for the information regarding companies out there that do these budgets.

Yes John, Reality concepts seem to always go over budget while shooting because they are always filming. Because they film everything, editing costs is one major cost to consider and depending on who is doing it will depend on how much you will spend. A lot more editing means, actors are being paid for time that is being edited and cut out. So it makes sense to do yourself a favor and get the breakdown costs for SAG-AFTRA standards for by the hour and make yourself a "man hour" break down of everybody involved with the production from beginning to end so you can see where your money is actually going. This way you can estimate future costs when coming across possible projects. As for movies and TV commercials, these have a certain limits of editing time because the length of the roles are limited where as for Reality series keeps the film rolling even during these would be commercial slots and behind the scenes. I call this a "Man Hour Template" because in reality you would be paying these actors by the hour at the minimum rate. If you are not using actors to play these roles then the costs are negotiated by the managers or agents in which you would still apply the man hour template. Always leave a budget for extras.

John, I have never known a prodCo that asks for budget breakdowns, per hour budgets, length of commercials, etc., from the person pitching. Good luck. I have done breakdowns and it's very, very time consuming and difficult.

Thanks guys, I've decided to submit without budget for now, we'll see if they insist on one, then go from there.

It seems unreasonable -to me- that production companies would ask questions about budgets from someone pitching to them. Oh well. There are books out there on the subject though.

Any books you recommend, Pedro?

John, There are many standard scheduling and Budgeting programs out there, such as Movie Magic, EP, etc. First, you break down the scene, how you're going to shoot it, and then budget those elements. There are many UPM and Line Producers out there who make their living by breaking down and budgeting projects. If you're not professional at this, please don't attempt it by yourself, it's way too complicated and time consuming. But budgets are required for any business plan or submission to a studio or large indie.

Thanks for the insight Steve

Hi John, I have written a treatment for a reality show (three versions, two of which are more scaled back than the first one) with explicit details (rules, conditions etc) and an outline of the program for each episode (eight in all). Then I sent it to a production company (stage32 member), that's interested in my project. I also told them that due to the nature of the show, there would be corporate sponsorship involved. The production company wrote back and said they are interested and that a budget of £50,000 was needed to kickstart the project. I don't have the funds, so I'm seeking an executive producer for financial backing and a friend that does PR mgt to help me create a pitch package for both acquiring a executive producer and sponsorship. As others have commented, don't know why the production co is asking you for those figures. Perhaps seeking another production company, would be another option. It wouldn't hurt to get another set of eyes on your project.

I'm going to do the same thing with me, until I get the kind of figures and response that would be acceptable to the ex prod and me.

Thanks Cynthia, I will be looking at every possible angle and I wish you luck getting your project up and running.

John, crew size and hours are only two factors in determining budget, important ones but only two. There are locations, logistics, cast numbers and type (union, non-union, etc.), equipment (own, rent, or combo), insurance, stunts, royalties, legal, editing, post sound, color, and mastering. Whew! And that is not an exhaustive list. A lot depends on the type of production (reality, studio,location, time period), where you are shooting, the time of year, and most of all EXPERIENCE. Having an experienced producer is more important than money because no one in their right mind is going to put money into a production without at least one experienced producer in the production management.

Thanks Ralph, I figured there was a lot to putting a budget together, that's why I asked the question, and with all the input, it's obviously left for the professionals with the proper experience.

While not just for professionals, when one is on a timeline and has to present to demanding, meticulous, business-savvy potential investors, having the assistance of someone who has been there can save you from very basic mistakes. Investors are unpredictable and perceptive, so anticipating and trouble-shooting your project (especially budget) is critical. Positive thinking is great, but a realistic mean-dog mock interview session can help more than any confidence from ego-stroking.

It's always best to find someone who has the software and expertise to give you a proper budget as a professionally printed document - what you give them should 'look' like they know it should look. You want to come off as extremely professional. Post and interview people on Craigslist, check out MeetUp.com for industry professionals who do budgets and of course, here on Stage 32. Best of luck, Lena

Thanks Lena

Those are great points Lena makes. I do suggest to first-time filmmakers that they do their own budgets on one or two productions so they at least understand the process and will know what they are paying for at some point down the line. Just plugging numbers into software is convenient and usually pretty accurate, but in the course of a production one needs to have a running 'feel' for the numbers and how the money is 'weighing.' Doing that with pad and pencil along with some heavy-duty thought will develop that sense. A 5, 10 or 20 minute film with a 2 or 3 day shooting schedule is a much better scenario to get that experience than a feature financed by a second mortgage. Avoid the budget equivalent of what the crew realized in 'Jaws' after the first encounter with the shark, 'We're gonna need a bigger boat.'

There are so many variables in budgets that if you've never done one, there are way too many things you can miss. I would always suggest hiring an experienced professional to do one you can review, and then maybe try to do your second or third one. Good luck. Make sure you have plenty of contingency on the total budget to take care of any indiscrepancies in what the Producer, Director and Distributor expect from the footage. Professional Scheduling and Budgeting programs aren't cheap nor easy to use,and it's easy to make mistakes.

All the responses to this question so far seem valid to me given the variation in styles and approaches that will be found amongst professionals on any project. One critical consideration is the relationship between the budget, the script and the shot list or shooting plan. Many small things, nuances really, or just one scene can kill a budget. The nuanced gotchas can be hard to describe, but here is an example of a budget killer I encountered with what I considered to be a great script. For a first film, a director had decided on a character-driven urban drama with several scenes involving gun play. A critical scene in a nightclub called for a complex camera dolly move that had to be done exactly in order to work in post. Because of the rotoscope post work, the scene really needed to be shot in 4K to hold up through SFX that transitioned into the next scene. The film was to be 20 minutes and had a budget of $5000. Shooting was on a 5D, not enough resolution for the SFX as well as other problems for the dolly movement. The crew was students and volunteers with myself as the only person with significant film experience. An experienced crew and a 4K camera was needed for this shot as a experienced dolly grip, a solid commercial dolly, and more than the 1/2 day allotted to make the shot. The climax of the film depended on this shot working, so it was too important to risk not getting it right. Bottom line, as DP I suggested that the Producer/Director delay the shoot a couple months, raise more money to properly budget for this particular shot and a experienced crew. Then we could proceed to make his shoe-string budget award-winning film. He proceeded to make the film with the same budget and a different DP. The film was never finished. The budget determines whether you can tell the story the way it needs to be or how you want it to be told. Putting the budget together is not about wishful thinking or winging it on set. The film you get to (or not) cut in post starts with the budget and WORKS on-set, or you are actually making a different film, or not.

I appreciate the great responses, most of which seem to apply to shooting a show/movie/short, does the dynamic change when you add the reality premise?

John, 'reality' is planned documentary styled shooting. A lot of can-you-do-that-again action. Live documentary shooting I've found to be the best practice. A lot of labor hours, constant follow-focus work, and sound can be really tough. You will have to make a lot of spot decisions about using on-camera sound, wireless and/or a mixer/boom operator. With multiple cameras your labor multiplies, editing cost increases but so does your production value. You'll have some value-added cost decisions to make. Then too, a lot depends on what you are shooting and where.