Screenwriting : Are historical films becoming more popular? by Rick Hardin

All developed by the studios hiring established writers. The “How to become a screenwriter” info is usually directed at unproduced writers and spec scripts. Three of your four examples are adaptations - an unproduced writer writing on spec will usually not have the money to option a story or book. It's still a long shot for an unproduced writer so sell and get a historical script produced as their first project.

@D Marcus I agree with everything you say. I guess what I’m thinking is that most things become popular or trendy because some high profile “cool” person takes a liking to something and people start emulating them so they too can be “cool” too. So in this case if the studios are backing historical films (even if they are mostly adaptations), and they’re award winning major awards and recognition don’t you think others will jump on the band wagon? I don’t know, I’m ready just wondering. I also recognize that by definition historical films are harder to make (and therefore usually need higher budgets) so that’s a huge strike against them. When you put up and Rom-com or a horror script that can be made for a fraction of the price of a historical drama, so it makes sense for the money men to risk less money especially when it’s in a proven money making genre. I agree that historical films will never rise anywhere near to the top of popularity but it does seem to me that they are receiving a higher usual popularity. Just my thoughts

You're bouncing around on two, very different things; historical films being popular and new writers selling a spec historical screenplay. I do not believe that a studio willing to back an historical film will look for a spec script from a first time, unproduced writer. I believe a studio looking to jump on the band wagon of historical films will option a known story like “12 Years a Slave”, “Argo”, or “The Kings Speech” and hire an established writer to adapt the screenplay. While historical films may be more popular, the opportunities for unproduced writers writing an historical screenplay on spec is not.

Another thing to consider is that the Oscars don't really matter... what matters to a producer is box office. ARGO had a movie star, an Oscar nomination... and made $136m domestic. IRON MAN 3 made $212m in its first week. So ARGO may be a hit for an Oscar movie, but not really a hit for a Hollywood film. 12 YEARS A SLAVE made $50m. The LEGO MOVIE made $80m it's first week. From a business perspective, the problem with period films is that they can cost more to make (all of that period stuff) and often don't make as much money. But here's the thing: if you have to write the script, you have to write the script. It may be a great sample that gets you work... or you may keep pounding your head against the wall until it sells (like 12 YEARS). The great thing about screenplays is that you can write a big stack of them at pretty much no cost... and you'll have to do that anyway. So why not write some long shots along with the scripts that make more sense from a business perspective?

Thanks for your comments. First let me say that it was not my intent to tie this conversation to first time screen writers or that a historical spec script was a safe bet. Although I can see where my comments might have mislead, My apologies. My intent was to discuss only that historical films seem to be more popular these days and it seems that more are being made than in the recent past and those that are being made are being recognized with awards and even making some good returns. Let’s face it it’s all a crap shoot anyway. You could have the next big runaway box office hit but until someone believes in you and your script and is willing to put money behind the project it’s all just words on a page. And you’re right William writing these scripts maybe only a work of passion but who knows? I do know that the more I write the better I get so I'll throw in one of these passion projects every once in a while just because I want to. Thanks!

Sorry, Rick. When you started by mentioning the general advice that says that historical films are almost imposable to sell and get produced I assumed you were talking about spec script - not established writers. Are historical movies more popular these days? It seems to me they are not. The rare few make money, but it seems most do not. I don't have the research but it seems fewer are made these days than in the recent past.

No worries D Marcus, when I reread my post I easily saw why you went there. Interesting that you think there are lest historical films and I thought there were more. I was just working from my impressions and have no facts to back my thoughts. I don’t know if it’s worth the effort but I wonder which perception is more correct?

I also find that people definitions of “historical” films tend to differ as well. Some say that if it’s a fact based and/or biographical film like “Lincoln”, or “12 Years a Slave” it’s the definition of historical film. That would mean films like “Platoon” would not be historical just because it’s set in a historical setting. If the definition is that the film portrays a definable time period then there could be arguments for “Sherlock Holmes” being a historical film, which in my opinion it isn’t. I have read also that if the movie is an action adventure type film such as “Indiana Jones” that even though it’s set in a specific time period it’s not considered a historical film. Any Thoughts?

I find historical films to be awesome sometimes (when I have the time) I can watch back to back episodes of the history channel.

I would narrow "historical" to history and "period" to, say, 30 years in the past. So a period movie can be historical but doesn't have to be. Sherlock and Indiana Jones would be period but not historical. And even if the story were fictionalized I'd say "historical" should have some basis in history - not just setting, but story.

We have to also factor in that these aren't exclusive of adapted material. Adaptations have a better shot right now. So yes, but it depends on the material.

I like that! That petty much sums up the way I feel about it.

They may not be impossible, but when you say 'its a historical piece' then starts the virtual accounting of 'we need costumes, we need props, we need historic locations' etc. So, sometimes before you've got past the start of pitch, they've priced themselves out in their heads. Hopefully, a concept is so strong and a story is so compelling that they will say, 'yes its a period piece BUT we gotta' make this!'

Historical films have a strong story and add romance it will be yummy

I am currently writing a historical thriller. It is based upon true events but I am fictionalizing and taking huge dramatic liberties with the story. The true events have never been dramatized before. And, most involved were never named, nor are living. It's the stuff of legend. Plus, this story could be filmed on location because luckily the area in which it takes place has not changed drastically in over 100 years. The local historical society has worked hard to maintain it. And, the area's tourism-based economy thrives because of it's past. So, most buildings in the "old town" have been preserved. I hope these elements, plus being a great story, will help this film come to fruition someday as I am well aware historical pieces are a tough sell. :)

Actually I find many films to be 'historical fiction' as many films are based on books or experiences that actually happened. Dramatizing history goes back a long ways even to flawed masterpieces like Birth of a Nation and Triumph of the Will. Recently, Fruitvale Station did the same for a contemporary event but I think it qualifies as a historical film.

Period pieces have to have a strong story. The genres that sell quickly and easily are action, comedy, and horror. That's why Lincoln Vampire Hunter had initial appeal. Adaptations are where period and historical pieces get a chance in the door. As we know, 12 Years a Slave, a historical piece, was based on a memoir as well as urban myth. We have to differentiate what is a prerequisite from what is marketable. As an example, Beth's idea will have appeal to several audiences (quadrants) aside from its historical origin, making it high concept.

I love historical films. I'm writing one now about Osceola the Seminole Indian war leader. I think films like Argo are even more interesting than stories from a hundred or two hundred years ago because they happened within our lifetime. That's why I loved American Hustle so much. Once I found out it was about ABSCAM in the '70's I was hooked and it turned out to be, for me, the best film of 2013--despite the Academy's choices. I love to find out about events and characters that happened in my lifetime but I know little about but for whatever reason I didn't follow it when it was happening. Hollywood will always produce a certain amount of historical dramas every year, as they do with horror, sci-fi, romantic comedies, etc. Right?

As Independent film writers I think historical films will have a few takers.

No one is disputing that but in order to get to the end point, you also have to think like business people. Steve McQueen didn't just hand over the script to Brad and Plan B. He pitched to various people. Especially as Independent Screenwriters, you also have to think like the end buyers and producers.

Anything that is not present day is considered period. This is defined by production, i.e. the entire setting needs to be re-created (wardrobe, vehicles, art direction, furniture etc.). This makes historical films more expensive to produce, thus the seeming unpopularity with producers. However, as a screenwriter I wouldn't worry about any of that if that is THE story you want to write. If this is the story about which you are most passionate - just write it. It's a calling card...don't you want to have the best written screenplay that means the most to you vs. a script you feel is "commercial" but you're not personally as invested?

I have to interject and say, one, period piece doesn't have a universal definition and the non-present day thing is arguable. Secondly, on average it takes 10 screenplays to get to your calling card. If you rely on the one piece and your audience says, well, what else have you got? That is why it's crucial to get a few ideas written. This can save you time if you run them by your trusted support group and allows you to tweak it versus having a completed screenplay that may require a lot of editing. Juno wasn't commercial but it had a market. A passion project can be your calling card but again, you need someone to want to keep it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Period_piece

I will agree to disagree.

I'd have to agree with Ivo on the definition of "period piece." Plus, a writer's "calling card" can be anything and everything. There are no limitations. Each person's experience is different. All the fantastic points made on this thread really are subject to opinion. There are far too many variables and circumstances surrounding any one film or screenplay to draw any concrete, final conclusions about this crazy industry. :) Concurring with Ivo's other point about story... some of the best professional advice about spec scripts that I have received recently is: "If you are not personally invested, then why bother. The story will suffer. That's what's important -- great story. That's what everyone wants."

Of course you have to be personally invested. However, to deny the business side of the crazy industry is a choice. Done.

Orianna, no one here is denying the business side. It's smart to keep one's ear to the ground. However, only considering the business side of things or giving it top importance in creative decision making will not guarantee success. And, if you are focusing so hard on what's currently "hot" in the theaters, then you are already behind. The point we were trying to make is if you are working on a script that is purely market focused verses personal interest/passion then that lack of emotional connection to the script may show in a lackluster execution. That script may fail simply because you truly don't care about the subject. What becomes "hot" in the market is when a great story surfaces above all the noise. Great stories come from great passion and personal investment. And, that great story is what starts a new trend -- historical or not. :)

Beth, and I am not denying passion but what gets the ear is understanding the market. You can predetermine it. We aren't disagreeing completely. But a good example is that someone wrote a horror flick without checking as to possible appeal and noted his frustration here. If you are doing a passion project you need to know who will go see it and is willing to take it to the world. There is a saying, the lazy and the fool walk the road twice.

I like this advice from Brain Koppelman about which genre to write.... http://vinebox.co/u/wyxqeeKCUdU/wfEcVHZqled

Brian is very good at balancing the passion with the business side. Good call, Lisa.

Or... Maybe that horror script just wasn't good. Sorry. :( My understanding is that horror is a hot genre in the market right now and will be for quite a while. ...I always thought that saying was "The lazy and the stingy walk the same road twice." Maybe that's just the Texan version. HaHa!

I never said horror wasn't hot. I precisely mentioned that earlier. My point was he didn't do research. If you do research on your market, you can save yourself a lot of headaches. In any case, knowing your market should be a priority.

A great script alone is not enough good contacts is a prerequisite to be produced , as earlier someone jocularly remarked I should know some Uncle or aunt LOL

Yes, you have to connect. You also need to understand your potential quadrants or audiences.

I have to post another vine from my favorite source for inspiration again...(He seems to have an answer for everything lately! ) about knowing someone in the biz... http://vinebox.co/u/wyxqeeKCUdU/whKqATOKiEx

I think like every sort of film its cyclical. Its never going to go away there's just to much good material to go around.

Being a history buff I have to admit that every time I hear “period films cost so much more money to make: the costume, the sets etc.” I get a bit frustrated. If you look at my original list of best pictures winners and you look what they cost to make most of the budgets are really not that big. “12 Years a Slave” = $20 million. “King’s Speech” = 15 million. “Argo” = $44 Million. American Hustle = $40 million. These movies are no more than other films that are set in the current day such as “The Heat” ($43 million), “Silver Linings Playbook” ($21 Million), “We are the Millers” ($43 million) and “Horrible Bosses” ($35 million). “Lincoln” which had a huge cast of recognizable stars was only $65 million. Even historical films with a bigger scope and a blockbuster feel like “Inglorious Bastards” and “The Monuments Men” were $70 million. All the historical films above (except “Monuments Men” which is still in the theaters), made at least 4 times its cost and “The King’s Speech” made a staggering 25 times its cost. It seems to me when you look at these examples the statement that “historical movies cost a lot more” has become a something of an urbane myth. I know that many movies are made for $5 million or less and it’s every filmmakers dream to make a movie like “Insidious” which cost $1.5 to make and made $54 million (36 times what it cost to make). But from everything I’ve seen historical films are not that much more expensive to make.

Excellent point. Rick's comments here point up the incredible vagaries of movie budgets that have little to do it being a "period" piece or not. 'Incredible thread here!

With due respect to the preceding comments, as I think they have plenty merit, for the small filmmaker, say a budget of $5000 - $15,000 about what most Kickstarter campaigns seek, historical is more expensive. I think it has a lot to do with the level of production one is considering. I have several film ideas that could be made as period pieces or as contemporary pieces; getting current-year autos from a local dealer for a day for free costs a lot less than renting from the local classic car museum. Same goes for actors wearing their own clothes as opposed to renting period costumes from the local theater. I think the question is scale and production-value related.

@ Ralph. I totally agree with you that a filmmaker with an ultra-low budget has little or no chance of getting a period movie done. With those kinds of budgets it just makes sense. Unless you belong to a reenactment group (Civil War, Medieval etc.) that you can draw on people who own their own costumes and props. I think any screenwriter working on a budget like you’re talking about would have to be very creative with the story to do a period film or even a Sci-fi for that matter. That being said, don’t be afraid to ask your local reenactment group for help. Most of them are true history buffs and more then not would jump at the chance to be in a film, share their knowledge or their costumes and equipment. Many have multiple sets of costumes and might be willing to outfit your actors for free. You'll also get better quality more accurate resources then any costume shop or theater group. I’ve been in various reenactment groups through the years and I’ve helped several filmmakers out.

Rick, I like your outlook and optimism. Ralph's point is well taken though, too. You usually don't produce a period piece on a micro-budget. Granted. But I took this conversation as talking about Hollywood multi-million dollar films, and how the screenwriter, who has written an excellent script and believes that his/her idea would connect with an audience—can make a sale or option. But if you're a filmmaker(which I am too) who wants to make a period piece and you only have a micro-budget Rick's solutions like using re-enactors is the beginning of the kind of creativity that makes the dream possible. Every year technology gives us higher resolution cameras at a cheaper price. And the technology of CGI makes recreating the past possible, even in the micro-budget realm. I am currently writing a screenplay about the legendary Seminole war leader Osceola. Every year re-enactors recreate Dade's Battle, the explosive event that started the Second Seminole War. I am editing footage I shot of one of these into a modest video that shows the action and adventure that happened back then; that I can use to try to convince a producer or studio to see my story's potential. Yet, I understand Orianna's passion too for gauging the market. Have you guys seen Jeanne Bowerman's tweet with a 2013 spec script analysis/review? http://www.tracking-board.com/2013-spec-book-year-in-review/ The reason why historical/period pieces grab me so is that the story is connected to real people who impacted history. They lived, fought and died. There is meaning for me here. History gives me my heroes and villains; my protagonists and antagonists. There are so many story diamonds like these laying on the sands of history to be picked up and revealed to the world by those inspired. Each contributor to this thread has valid points. There's no need to argue or play one-upsmanship. The odds are against us all! So we might as well be positive to one another to help each of us write the best script possible, and maybe learn something about the world and ourselves in the process.

Ivo, you're tip to write in passes is of awesome value. Thanks!

Historical, IMHO, appears with movies like Alexander, Troy, The Passion, namely anything post-1000 CE is modern history. Movies like 300 appears the new way of presentation of such historical themes. On the drawing board are Moses and a Re-Make of the 1958 Ben Hur. Ben Hur II - Exile is a new book Pub date May 14, accounting the Roman War with the Jews and also scheduled as a promising Motion Picture. Fantasy is the bigger BO with youth, but real history is the bigger winner long term.

Joseph, I mostly agree with you but my experience is that comparatively little 'real' history has been presented and taught by schools let alone set to motion in films. 'Historical' films are routinely embellished and propagandized without regard for the true historical record, including '300' and the like. The hilarity of a 'document' like 'Birth of a Nation' is pretty typical. Some accounts are closer to the true record than others such as 'Zulu.'

No denying its the era of Photo-shopping of history aimed at the Harry Potter youth audience. However reality is beginning to bite: historical, space & Science documentary is just as popular as movies today; we cannot remember the names of the CGI blockbuster 5 mins after The End - these are already becoming worn, even with 3-D. I am thinking, reality & controversial stuff will reign long term. Folk want movies like The Passion or any historical/biblical depictions with scholarly, historical, archaeological proof back-up, but not as religious repeats. That which makes one think and jolt. Youth grow up too :)

I'm writing two compelling WWII scripts. Have you noticed the WWII scripts completed in the last several years and those currently in the works?

Marcus. A writer can publish a book today, which is not controlled by studios.

My take on this is "Yes" there are some very successful historical-based movies, but generally studios don't want to face the extra costs (costuming, historical sets etc.) and would rather go cheap with present-day comedies, horror and cop chase movies. Yes, the best historical films garner Academy Awards, but aren't necessarily the best money-makers and "bang-for-the-buck" for movie investors. I love the research approach and writing about historical figures (see my "Historical Feature Scriptwriting" blog) Hopefully one or more of my own historical scripts will get noticed???

The thing to remember about something like a "what's going to sell " handbook no mater what the subject that it can take forever to write and get the thing published and by the time its on the shelf for you to buy the dynamic has changed. Its hard to sell any script. Historicals have the extra budget issues with making it look realistic so there is an issue and will get in the way of you making a sale but it boils down to what do you write? I write fantasy adventure and they can cost the earth. I think the trick if you are dedicated to telling a historical story is to find a way of telling it economically.

I like your comment about telling an historical story economically. Trouble is I think part of the audience enjoyment of this genre is seeing the costumes, surroundings and manners/mannerisms of another time. (eg. in my case the 1880s in "Wilde About Oscar") Some of the scenes would just need the actors in costume, but other more expansive crowd scenes with hansom cabs, old-time gaslit streets etc.???... expensive! Somehow the Brits seem to do it well like "Jane Eye", "Tristan Shandy", all the Merchant Ivory films and of cause the hugely popular "Downton Abbey" series.

The Brits and a many others have a much longer theater history, so settings, costumes and props appropriate to historical tales are more ingrained in the culture. Take a look at Spielburgh's Amistad; the costuming suffices but comes across to me as 'thin' and somewhat painted on. Though shot here, 12 Years A Slave seems to have a much better tuned look, not to mention a Brit Director.

Yes Ralph, 12 Years A Slave had excellent costuming, as did of course Lincoln, a movie I like very much. Generally I think the Brits have the edge in historical romances and dramas. With my 2 historical scripts, I'm entering Brit. competitions and am almost ready to pitch to producers there.

Like Biblical films, the historical genre appears to resurrect periodically with upgraded technology and new spin directors. Like Spielberg's Lincoln and Cameron's Titanic. However, historical editions of biblical stuff is harder to manage - mostly because belief is dna embedded and no one wants to let it be dented by historical details. This says the Jews of Judea were heroes in challenging Rome's emperors - else we'd all be worshiping Jupiter today. Five Roman historians of the 1st century agree: http://www.amazon.com/Ben-Hur-II-Happened-Century/dp/0994201842/ref=sr_1...