Screenwriting : Logging In by Lee Davis

I am a "Hollywood script reader". I have never heard that we say we can judge the quality of a script after reading just one page. We can tell a lot from reading one page but we cannot judge the quality of a script. I get the feeling your "poison pen piece" is based on misconceptions. I take your challenge everyday - I read a log line and I read the first page. Then I cover the entire script. Sometimes I read a log line that piques my interest. I respect how uninterested you feel in the movies most log lines describe. Most are quite poor. Unfortunately most screenplay are poor. Someday you may read a log line that sparks your interest. But that doesn't mean that log lines don't work. Most movies are poor - that doesn't mean movies don't work. Most screenplays are poor - that doesn't mean writing a screenplay doesn't work. To use an old adage; don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Just because most log lines are poorly written doesn't mean they don't work.

We feel we need to shed this attitude of demonising industry members and readers. I think loglines are a fair solution to what is a huge problem of oversupply. They aren't ideal no, but it's questionable if the ideal solution is workable.

If all loglines sound the same, you aren't doing it right. A logline is the essence of your story, what makes it unique and interesting, If that essence is the same as a bunch of other stories, you should toss that story and find one that is unique to write. The main problem with new writer's scripts is they have ideas that would be in a pro's discard pile because there is nothing unique and/or involving about them. They lack imagination and creativity. If the story someone is telling is bland, why would I want to read it to see if it is well told? Odds are it is not, because if they lack the creativity to come up with a great story they most likely lack the creativity to tell it well (in an unique and involving way). A logline is a good indicator... And what did Poe say about first sentences in prose?

Loglines solve three specific problems for me: 1. They give me something vaguely intelligent to say when people find out I'm a screenwriter and they ask the dreaded inevitable question: "So what's your movie about?" To prevent myself from either launching into some incoherent babble about the plot or standing there banally going: "Um, well, you see..." I simply quote my logline. At that point I can automatically retrieve benefit number two: 2. The reaction to the logline will tell me if I'm onto something with the story. If the person goes: "Wow, that's pretty cool/interesting" I know I have a story. If their eyes glaze over I need to go back to the drawing board. 3. There's no point writing a 100 page screenplay, a 30 page treatment or even a one page synopsis if I can't state my story in 2 - 3 lines. The logline contains all the essential elements of the story if written well. A protagonist, a flaw, a clear outward desire, an inciting incident and an antagonist/conflict. Anyway, that's my 5 cents about loglines.

Interesting Lee, while I write dreaded Loglines I actually think the half page "High Concept" just might be more what producers truly want to see when sending an inquiry. Some say to write high concept without premise but I really truly think the "High Concept blended with the project mission gets straight to the point and let's one know exactly what's coming besides while standard is standard when submitting to a producer they might just appreciate the initiative to do so. Granted you want to do it in a half page or at least less than a page. It really is the logline, the mission and synopsis all in one showing you really know your project and it's intended intent. That's how I'm going to send my inquiries from now on. I posted a good example under my logline section. Nifty discussion.

Lee, I admire you for stating your opinion, there's way too many screenwriters who won't stick their neck out on any issue BUT I disagree somewhat with what you're saying. Yeah, you can write a great logline and not be a great writer, but being able to write a compelling logline shows that you've mastered one aspect of storytelling which is concept. I don't start with a logline, but I start with 3 sentences that sum up the whole movie. I agree that you can tell more about how good the writer is by reading the first page, but again part of storytelling is developing a simple yet compelling concept, it's not just how good you are at crafting an individual scene, how good your dialogue is, your excellent terse descriptions and your prose. That's why I posted that thread about why screenwriting is much harder than people think - because you have to be an 8 out of 10 in several different skillsets - scene writing, character, structure, plotting, theme, concept, dialogue and description....

Yeah don't get me wrong. The Logline is always included it is just boring only having such and yeah it is an art form that some of the best screenwriters in world sometimes never truly master. I'm definitely not saying I've mastered it. You could give the concept to ten different working, highly professional screenwriters and have ten different variations of loglines. I would never waste money with getting an opinion on that aspect of the craft for just such reason. I think it is crappy that so much weight is given to the logline though, via this site anyway. Inquiries should be clear and simple but only using the logline I think is selling yourself short and believe me "High Concept Synopsis/Mission" has gotten me a lot more attention. At least now I get a few replies instead of completely ignored and in this business that truly is a sign of progress. If you get a reply saying I can see how this concept and story could work it is just not something our company is interested at this time. I think that is a sign of getting there. I felt fortunate to get that reply anyway. As far as what I did next is get a lead will it pan out. IDK. You will hear those on this site that tell you, you have to do it this way or that way. The truth be told there is no one way to anything in this business. Do I decrease my odds IDK., Do their methodologies increase your odds. IDK.

@Alle, I agree with most of what you've said and respect your opinion because it's backed by a decade and a half of industry experience but would like to share my humble opinion on some of the issues you've touched on in your post. You wrote: "[b][i]I will say though Lee, there is a lot of "misinformation" and "discussion" about loglines on Stage32 and other places, that are loudest by people who have little experience ASSESSING and READING and DETERMINING. Keeping in mind MOST of these people screaming out from the treetops have one, maybe 2 documents of around 100 pages they call "a screenplay" and in most cases, they are far from. The internet has enabled the propagation of the lowest common denominator of information, or understanding (or lack) of that information and rumors. It then enables the broader propagation because "if five people who have never had a screenplay made say that this is how you write a screenplay, that is more RIGHT than the one person who has 10 screenplays and only had 1 made" because 5 people must be right and the person who is professionally working must be wrong. Right?[/i][/b]" Some thoughts: It's a given that there will be misinformation on a free site with 250 000 members from all over the world at different levels of experience, striving for different goals and representing different schools of thought. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, whether that opinion is informed or not. The fact that someone has not been produced is not the criteria for expressing an opinion, neither is it completing film school or even completing a screenplay. Neither does it mean that their point in the discussion or said opinion is invalidated by a lack of knowledge or experience. We all know the adage 'from the mouth of babes". Conversely, the fact that someone has been produced doesn't necessarily mean they know how to write a great story or that their opinion in a particular discussion is right or even informed. One of the great things about this site is the interaction between individuals of differing levels of knowledge and skills within a common context. And at the end of the day it really only about opinion not fact. All artistic disciplines exhibit a high level of innate subjectivity. That is why two people of equal skill and experience can see the same movie and one can love it and the other one hate it. That is why there are so many screenwriting "gurus", all pandering expert, surefire systems enabling you to write the ultimate screenplay. After 15 years of experience are you willing to put your head on a block by propagating the definitive way to writing a Hollywood blockbuster or Academy award winner? Are you able to take that methodology and show us how it's done by writing that box office smash hit or that 10 Oscar winner? At the end of the day it's the opinions of people who determine those things; a panel of artistic industry experience at the Oscars and a mass of uniformed opinions at the box office. How often are we surprised at both ends of the spectrum? The truth is story is universal and the principles of writing are immutable. Those majors will never change. You cannot break those principles, you can only break yourself against them. Process and product though are highly fluid. They change person to person. When 250 000 such individuals gather in a community we often differ in the minors, the nuts and bolts of how and when and where. Many of us are trying to test our ideas and the only way we can is to meet in an online community and express them, defend them, reassess them and correct them. Knowing WHAT is not the same as knowing HOW. Iron sharpens iron and this community not only allows but encourages that process in a respectful way because it's an important part of a writer's growth and development. Not everyone connected to Stage 32 wants to be a top Hollywood writer, some write for the love of writing and creativity. At the end of the day it is up to the individual to listen and way opinions carefully and then decide whether they wish to subscribe to that opinion or not. We appreciate those of you have the experience and information and we appreciate it when you correct us. Well, some of us do anyway. So thank you for your opinions. You always write with clarity and value, I'm glad you're here. Maybe if we encourage one another to share and challenge each others thoughts we can turn the tide of that lowest common denominator and increase broad base knowledge. Stage 32 and sites like it go a long way to making that possible. Just an opinion :-)

Art isn't empirical. No matter what a person's credentials and achievements are, judgements regarding what constitutes excellence in the Arts has been and always will be a matter of opinion subject to personal experience, interpretation and perspective. An informed opinion, a respected opinion, a sought after opinion, but nonetheless an opinion, not a fact.

Yes, Michael I agree the logline is the bate, the worm that catches the fish. Almost everyone in the industry swears by it. Even audiences who come to watch movies at the theater that I work, decide what movie to watch base on the logline, to proof your point. So lets all start practicing and the art of loglines!!! Show to them to your immediate friends and family and see if they find it interesting and intrigued to know more about your screenplay.

People seem to have different approaches when it comes to when and how they formulate loglines. For me, the loglne is like a seed from which the story germinates. It doesn't define every aspect of the story but carries its basic genetic potential. I prefer to develop one very early on in my structural planning. It then guides the basic tenet of the story throughout my writing process. Maybe that's because I tend to be more plot driven. Others seem to only be able to formulate one once the story is complete. I suspect it's because their story evolves more organically from character development. I don't think it matters which approach you favor as long as at the end of the day you can distil the story to it's irreducible minimum. If you cannot, chances are the pieces of the puzzle are either missing or don't fit seamlessly. Just a thought.

If you're able to write a great script, then the logline writes itself. Because after the script is written, if you aren't able to easily distill it down to one compelling sentence with a clear sense of drama and conflict, then by definition it wouldn't be a great script! Now how you get to a great script, there are many ways to get there, so don't act like the only way is to write a logline first and then stick to it by hook or by crook through the whole process. It might change a little. Your muse might want you to tweak it a bit. My #1 goal is to write a great script...not get a script sold, not get a script made, not ace pitch meetings or write a logline that gets lots of "bites", but to write a great script. That's the supergoal behind those other subgoals.

As Dave says, it's not cool to say you have to form a rigid logline before you can write a great script. It's not cool to say there's any right or wrong way to go about writing a script.

While I'm not a fan of loglines there is an aspect I forgot about them. It can be dependent upon the unique situation of where you are at in the process too. If you have a plot and a story that you really have formulated where you want to go with it logline first might not be such a necessity. However if you just have a generalized idea of the story and you start thinking in terms of loglines it may actually help in the development process of where the story needs to go and perhaps even find that arc for you. Learning loglines really should be more of a writing tool vs. a marketing tool and still think it sucks everyone is so dependent on them for marketing. Dave as far as a good reduction goes I kind of think of like this. a reduced sauce can be very flavorful making you want more but by reducing it so much sometimes you lose the notes of all the other flavors or alter the flavors too much. So much as a reduction is dependent upon the script so is the sauce dependent upon the recipe. Some ingredients can't reduce as well as others just as some screenplays can't either. Another one of my dumb analogies.

You need a good logline to pitch your project. It's just how it is.

Alle. And I almost agree with you. As a hiring manager (of freelance writers) I receive hundreds of resumes a week. I only spend approximately 20-30 seconds on each resume, so I do understand your need for a more efficient screening method. However, I have never found a good writer from looking at resumes. I have no problem with a writer who uses a log line to clarify his story idea. And I have no problem with producers searching by genre category or other helpful search terms like budget, location, time period, etc., to filter scripts. I just don't think a log line provides trustworthy information about the writer or the story. When I wrote my Logging In comment, I purposely used the analogy of listening to a musician (live or via demo tape) because it allows you to hear the actual music, not a blurb about the song. A screenplay is not just an idea, it's a musical performance that involves originality, concept, voice, phrasing, rhythm, influence, genre and technical skill. None of which can be a conveyed by a standard (fill in the blanks) log line. You may be able to cast a suitable actor from a photo, but, trust me, you can't find a good screenplay from a log line. I don't know about anyone else, but I can usually form an opinion I trust on both the story concept and the writing quality by reading a single page of a feature script. In fact, I don't even need to read it. I listen to the writer's performance using Adobe's Read Aloud feature. If I don't hear any music in 60 seconds, I stop listening.

Thanks for the unflinching talk about real biz. I look at loglines like any other tool...useful in the right situation, but definitely not the only tool in my kit.