Screenwriting : Bad Movies...Unrelatable Stories...or is it a Bad...Script: Was it the eggs or the chicken's fault?! by Juliana Philippi

Thanks for the nod, Juliana Philippi. I think a good script can become a bad movie, and a bad script can become a good movie. Sometimes the script is why a movie doesn't turn out well, sometimes it's the concept, and sometimes it's the budget, the directing, acting, editing, sound, etc.

One of my biggest turnoffs as a reader of any medium is a good idea done badly; as in, the stated story is deeply interesting but undermined by bad writing (one example being the novel "To All the Boys I've Loved Before"; the setup was great but fumbled pretty hard in how Lara Jean herself was written, as well as the gaping plot hole of the letters she wrote actually being addressed, meaning that at some point she really was planning to send them... or is just THAT stupid). That being said, I think it's possible for a weak script to make a good movie, since there's lots of So Bad, It's Good movies out there. It depends entirely on execution, so it's probably not a chicken-and-egg thing all that much. I know I can forgive a weak or barely-there story if the movie is fun to watch because of the actors.

Maurice Vaughan It can be...anything...one ingredient off, gone bad, rotten in the cooking process...and it all tastes...yuck. If only there was a formula, lol! (but, what fun would that be?) Sometimes, this also contradicts my post, a bad movie / bad script, leads the director, or writer, even actor, to their next breakthrough in growth, and boom...magic....after the...well, bad movie, lol.

Banafsheh Esmailzadeh Lol!!! So agree, sometimes I'm watching a movie, and I go..."no, this can't be that...idiotic...or...no, why is it this bad...ughghhh", and plot holes and character development play a huge role in why I just can't even with some movies. Although, the movies I just cannot commit to, are the ones that...linger on, and on, and on, and they do not EDIT! I saw the final episode of a rather famous franchise show last night...and I couldn't with all the "false ending" monologues, in the middle of like the biggest emergency on the planet...taking their time, saying this little monologues, with no sense of...nothing, no urgency....and these moments need to be placed strategically and correctly....I was so over it, lol. And, I see the actors giving it their all! But, it was...the script...I stay for the actors in the end...and only, only if I just can't...I turn it off, or fast forward...not sure which one is worse.

Yeah, Juliana Philippi, because the director, writer, etc. can learn from the bad movie. And some people make bad movies on purpose for fun.

Maurice Vaughan Oh, I love a good " bad movie"...sometimes those are my go to's! "Dude, Where's my Car"...classic...

I saw Dude, Where's My Car? in theaters, Juliana Philippi. And sometimes a movie could have an incredible script, incredible directing, etc., but some people still won't like it. It's just not their thing.

I think both affect each other. A good script with poor production—whether due to weak performances or an inability to fully realize the world, especially in sci-fi and fantasy, which rely on complete imaginary settings—can still fail.

Likewise, a bad script paired with great production often leads to a very poor result. Even if the production team hires strong actors and develops impressive visuals, sets, and music, they are still trying to elevate a fundamentally weak story—and the result usually remains bad.

But, I believe the script is far more important as the first step. Producers know what they want to work on, and they are unlikely to invest significant effort or creativity in repetitive or poorly written stories.

Meriem Bouziani You're very right, particularly in a sci-fi world, and fantasy, the world needs to be believable, the audience must totally and completely have no hesitation suspending their disbelief, and going on the ride. And production here has a great part to play, as are the interpretations of the actors - players. But, a bad script as well, even with millions upon millions and all the trimmings, will also block any growth the momentum and energy a great team of collaborators can have. Scripts, in most cases, most, are the backbone for our work : )

What I’ve noticed is a recycling of concepts a d repetition of stories. it’s boring and using famous actors to make people go is a bad scam.

Yes absolutely Juliana Philippi

So true, Juliana! Everything gets better with time, repetition, and learning. Every script you write is practice that helps us sharpen our instincts and improve, and that dedication really shows in the work we create.

Namhla Mnyamana Oh, for sure, me too, I've seen the...same...damn...thing...over and over again. And yes, at times, very well known actors do it...lol, my mom and I have a phrase we use, "well, she had to pay the rent". But yes, there has been a trend, particularly for "content over quality", when streamers just want content, content, content...but, the pendulum sways always. That's why us, the new wave of screen players, needs to get our voices out there, and keep on going!

Sydney S I totally agree : ) Nothing is for nothing, and actually the worst auditions, and the pitches with the harshest feedback, and the scripts that were a bit...off piste...got me to the next moment, next audition, and next script, and got me meetings, acting work, and an echo of "yes". We need those "low moments", but they're just contraction moments. Like the universe...expansion, and contraction: )

Yes, we're seeing some fine actors enacting substandard scripts.

So many stories are built on low-level, tit-for-tat emotional games, which merely serve to reflect an outworn status quo. It's assumed that such is the market demand.

And, conversely, how many screenplay writers, even here on this page, are attempting to set new scenarios that are designed to uplift & transport, via whichever genre??

AS I am only a little over a year into my journey in this industry I am mainly trying to soak in as much info as possible vs. having any real answers. But I have thought the same thing many times this past year, and just kept most of the opinions to myself or my wife. As I read your post Juliana Philippi I started to make analogies to the sprots world. All U.S. professional leagues and much of the major college programs are often accused of recycling people - even those without a sterling track record - for coaching and coordinator positions because they are 'part of the group' and feel familiar and easy an less risky. As I evaluate the quality of much of what is released I feel like the same approach plagues this industry as well. I''ll likely never have the opportunity but if I am ever in a position of decision making I have made an oath to myself to not get stuck in that rut.

Melody Lemond agreed. It isn't the job of art to lift up necessarily but I made the remark to my wife last night as we finished 'The Beast In Me' (which I really really enjoyed and Brittany Snow would be PERFECT for Dixie Dynamite) that all of the characters are so flawed (the ex-wife of the Claire Danes character a minor exception but she was a plot point, not a driver of the story) and miserable. None of my projects are like that. All of the characters are tremendously flawed but they rise above those flaws and bring others with them. It wasn't intentional or pre-determined but everyone of my projects shows the humane side of deeply flawed people and how they can create a community of empathy and understanding. I write some pretty out there stories but they offer hope in every case rather than despair. Not in a 'happily ever after' approach but in a realistic and life affirming way.

Darrell Pennington well said. Agreed, the value in unmasking what may be seen as 'flawed'. Tonight, watching Fifty Shades of Grey brought that home here. Wonderful, that you approach your work in this way.

Slop tends to come from playing it safe.

You can have a really edgy concept that gets dampened by the sales agent.

You can have a brilliant script that gets watered down by the investors.

You can have an ambitious production that's compromised by budget.

You can have the resources, but you have to spend it all on talent.

You can have a radical team that's at the mercy of a dull director.

You can have a niche film that's oversold to a general audience.

Everything tends to go back to attempts to shore up the bottom line and try to guarantee a return.

The result can look insane, and obviously compromised, and go on to perform poorly, but the decisions that led to it individually made sense.

Writers often critique films for this all the time, but fail to see that they are doing it themselves with their specs, which are derivative, generic, and written to please everyone in an attempt to be undeniable.

Business and art do not play well, as the former leans into absolutes and the latter thrives in chaos.

The remedy to this used to be the slate; you made a dozen films of various degrees of artistic risk with budgets proportional to perceived return. The result was staple blockbuster returns upfront, the odd sleeper generating long-tail income, and some festival darlings that raised various entities' profiles. The problem is that the market and economic dynamics have changed radically since the era of theatrical and home video. Streaming killed it. There is no longer much perceived reward for risk, so fewer people are taking them.

Melody Lemond Fair point, actors work with what they have, most of the time, until they reach a level of picking a choosing, but, at times: we try to see the good in the script, as weak as it may be, or, we may be talked into it, or...we need to pay the rent, lol. I have learned, by trial and error, to always trust my gut, speaking as an actor now, and when reading a script, considering it, I really trust my intuition: the message, the character, the story, do they resonate, do they challenge me, excite me, and will it be for the greatest good...Is it fun! Is it inspiring!

Darrell Pennington Our industry is very similar to others, and I absolutely see the direct similarity between the big leagues in Hollywood and big soccer, European football leagues, really any top, top level sport. People recycled, players and coaches swapped. And, yes, we are certainly somewhere else in out career...but I feel, and know, it's a wonderful place to be. We are individuals, picking, and choosing, with every thought, every script, every audition, whether we will conform to the "status quo", mentioned several times here ( I am loving this discourse y'all! ) or, whether we will challenge, change, innovate, and transform filmmaking, acting, screenwriting. Aren't the most iconic movies, scripts, actor's interpretations of a character, weren't they, at first, thought of as wild, crazy, non-conformists, "out there", even a bit disliked at first? Our work, is individual, and we can all choose what we put out there, and the tippy top where they keep swapping the same people? At some point, that all falls apart as well.

CJ Walley And mic drop CJ...that's it. The money. Money, money, money : ) There's a phrase in Spanish " Poderoso caballero es Don Dinero", meaning " Powerful Gentleman is Sir Money". We always think having lots of money as artists, as people really, will solve all of our problems. Yet...that's rarely the case. Look at most people who win the lottery! They .... well, most do not end up in good places. Compromising for money changes compromise, to slop. Exactly that word. Slop. Nothing of substance, of...passion. We should always trust our heart, and that word, heart has bee taken out of the equation it seems, due to people thinking "oh, that's not part of the bottom line, no place here for heart or passion..." Yet...without passion, risks, heart, love, feeling...we have stories that...flop.

Juliana Philippi, indeed, but the thing is, slop doesn't always flop. There are entire channels/prodcos built on churning out safe, profit-generating content, without spending a single dime more than they need to. Plus, on the flip side, there is a lot of artistically risky material that fails badly because people overestimated the marketplace's likely response. Again, this is where long-tail returns worked really well. You could have a theatrical release bomb, but then find cult success in the video/DVD market.

CJ Walley Exactly. It’s all about timing, audience, planning, level of risk vs safe, and…well, what people like individually. At the end of it all, if we just keep on playing, we keep on learning. Learning our placement in the market place, the industry, where our voice fits, excels, and what we can do to position ourselves for success. This is a lifetime of commitment. Let’s keep writing!