Screenwriting : Feedback on a Logline by Simon © Simon

Kevin thank you for your detailed input. Appreciate it. I like When over where too. Yes, 3 always seems to be the norm... But I cannot think of a third at the moment without unraveling how my Antag handles 4... IE separates and so-forth. And yes, all horror movies are the same aren't they?.... LOL! I really need Dennis Hopper....

If you don't want to post what's new and different about your story, then there's not much point posting a logline - because that's what it's supposed to get across. This logline is 3 sentences long instead of 1, and it's basically the set up of half the horror movies out there. I've seen this movie 30 times. So, you need to make it clear what makes yours different. A generic logline will connote a generic story, so I'm not sure why you'd want to post one on purpose..

While taking spring break in Mexico, four college friends are drugged and held captive and must try to escape the town despite the corrupt police force.

What's the purpose of holding them captive?

Simon, you promised a generic log line and that's exactly what you delivered. Log lines are like trailers: enticements to go further into your story. Unique equals interesting. Not necessarily good, but at least worthy of a script request and a few pages read. With hundreds of thousands of scripts floating about, getting that far is hard.

It's a good logline, Simon. You might want to shorten it up, which can be done with some application of your talent. But overall, it does what ist's supposed to: give the reader/agent/producer an idea of the script's content. Cheers !

Four (positive and negative adjective) college students (want, need )a restful spring break in Mexico, are drugged, kidnapped, and must overcome a suave, (negative adjective) Tour Guide, by _____________, or, by defeating ____________________. Keep the logline to 50 words or less. The fact that the police are corrupt is one of the many obstacles they must face on their way to the climax. The fact that this happens at a trendy nightclub is also information not needed in the logline....but expressed during your set up in act one. Hope this helps. The sentence about the police is not a complete sentence...be careful with the grammar.

That's the story idea, you still need to sum it up in a logline. Try this: In Mexico, on Spring break, four students are kidnapped, one escapes and must rescue the other three.

This concept and logline totally works, but because it's a bit familiar e.g. similar to Hostel and many other horrors, it's all about the execution of the screenplay. even more so than something that is much more original. So the first 10 pages better be great writing I think.

I thought this was a comedy. When you said horror I had to go back and look at it again.

You should register your work with the WGA and then try not to be afraid of sharing. This Logline is probably too long and who "the rest" is doesn't seem like it's explained, though we can assume you are either talking about a group of other captives. Or perhaps 2 of the 4 people you mentioned escape and have to go back for the others, but you forgot to mention the #'s previously?

First off thank you all for taking the time to help better me. I will go in order: @Danny Yes all horror movies are the same, pretty much. Mine is, Candyman meets Chainsaw Massacre family. FWIW @Kevin, no torture. @ Ron I do not want to give the lead ( a female away) in the logline in my movie she is changed by the story. Oliver Stone's "How does the story change the Protagonist." I went to the school of director's cuts. LOL! The obvious hero is killed off as a surprise. @Lisa- Good to know I am along the lines of what the general public rented off the shelf. Not like I penned Breakfast Club...LOL @Pierre-It is not the town that is holding them down rather they have no help from local authority. They'd be fine once make they make it to the airport and reach customs officers but time does not allow that. If our protag wants to save the rest. @Gordon- Should I assume the positive or negative of your comment? Where you are enticed or you were not enticed? Due to your desire for Unique='s interesting, after stating mine was generic. @Will How would you shorten that logline, lose the descriptive of the club and go right to the drugged and snatched? @Ron Well how do you propose not giving away the twist in a logline? I have an obvious hero. Military captain on vacation, but he is not the hero. It is my shy girl who saves em and gets the boy at the end. @Linda I am guessing that the parenthesis are what I SHOULD or what you like you to see in a Log line? Four (Smart but exhausted) <--Posi and Neg? Is Trendy to descriptive in a logline be it only one word? @Anthony Ha that is right up my alley. When asked what the story is I always state;" Boy has girl, boy loses girl, boy gets girl back. @Dave No changes, just better suck you in the first few pages on a read for you then. Meaning on track with Logline. Thank you all again for constructive criticism, I appreciate it. My challenge is to write my logline without *devluging my female lead when most will think it is my military Captain. Watch my lead go from shy to vengeance and get the boy she was after from the beginning at the very end. That happy ending all seem to want. Me? I kill em all...LOL! During chainsaw massacre one of the many remakes. Not that, THAT is what my story is; but same idea. The logline is as follows: When a helpful family invites two lost couples in for a good ol' down-home massacre, the prom night teens find themselves all dressed up with nowhere to escape. Renee Zellweger and Mathew McConaughey. No mention of chainsaw, who does the saving, or the fact they are the main ingredient in the chili....

The negative adjectives describes for both the protagonist and antagonist their harmatia, their faults and tragic flaws; the positive should be more expressive than smart but yes that is the idea, you fill in the blanks, as you are the creative writer. If it is trendy then so be it, but that translates into not telling the story but gives a good idea to the reader what the protagonist is up against in terms of their inner needs and superobjetives. So too the same for the antagonist...he/she should have descriptions that are 100% contrary to the protagonists. This sets up the necessary tension for conflict between them without giving away the plot narrative. The protagonist also on the inner journey must overcome their own tragic flaw in order to defeat the nemeses. I hate to tell you this too but there should only be one protagonist. The other students fall into the line of romance and reflection characters; four main characters are your hero, the nemeses, the reflection, and the romance...but it isn't necessary to have a romance character; all of these characters have inner and outer motivations that create the texture for narrative subplots as well. OK, smart but exhausted...exhausted is not a "fault" that he or she must overcome that you show in their character arcs over the course of the film. One would assume this fault is what gets the protagonist into trouble. For the antagonist, you need to show his character arc too, as he is a worthy opponent....someone whose inner motives and faults coupled with his/her outer desire and actions, makes it impossible for the protagonist and the students to overcome him/her. It is from these flaws that your theme emerges...the message of your story...the reader will begin to understand that without you stating it in the logline. I understand you want a twist to occur with your protagonist but again that is something that doesn't need to be stated and will not be revealed within the logline as written....but you must state the protagonist in the logline. If the hero, the main character is aided by the romance or reflection character and becomes the hero in the twist you want...ok....but you don't need to state the twist in the logline. The logline will describe the protagonist, the antagonist, their inner motivations and their outer super objectives which create the conflict and how the conflict is overcome (by____________).

Simon, I was not enticed because it seemed common. Why should I root for the four college kids? They seem reactive, not going out and making things happen. Are they underdogs, lost souls? Why would someone drug and kidnap them? Money is a common answer. Anything special about the corrupt police? Also, why does this story have to happen at this time? (that is a question posted by Scott Meyers on his blog "Go into the Story")

Linda thanks for the details I will dissect and apply or try to. Gordon thanks for expounding.

You are welcome...anytime...

A logline should be one sentence. Tough to do, I know. It should reveal your protagonist, his/her need/goal and the danger or dilemma involved with the antagonist.

Diana I thoughT that was a Tweet...haha. Imagine if that is all we ever had to do with anyone. Just one sentence...No hurt feelings, no pleasantries, no; "Sorry I asked eyes." Yes! He's back.... Don Rickles in.... MAKING IT FAST! Just kidding. I would implode obvious by my posts!

Ok so goofin around above I forgot to post that I applied most of the advice and rewrote the L.L but will share it after I go buy the domain name for the movie and send it over the eC.O.

All right just bought the .com name and have to go read about what changes are allowed to keep CR intact, before upload to eCO

Candyman meets Texas Chainsaw Massacre sounds very intriguing, as those are two of the best horror films ever made and I am a fan of both movies! FYI. I see little corrolation between that the original logline you posted above, but good luck with it all!!!

Update, I just used the ECO. Pretty simple if you read the tutorial guide as some of the questions asked were not self evident. Nevertheless I got it handled and the cost is still 35.00 not the 55.00 some how discussed. So yay for the little guy. The title is: CARNITAS TACO Logline rewritten as encouraged by some of you. Thank you! Which apparently was a synopsis more then it was a logline. "A soft spoken Kendra has a last shot for the boy of her dreams. Who she must help rescue from a cannibalistic family before it's too late." Synopsis: "4 college kids head down to Mexico for a much needed Spring Break. A soft spoken Kendra meets a suave tour guide, who's family is known for their award winning tacos. After being drugged and snatched, with no help from the corrupt local Police department. It is up to one of them to save the rest from being turned into the family's secret recipe."

Simon...this isn't a logline yet ... it's one sentence that is like a tagline ... the second line isn't a complete sentence.

Die Hard A snarky, unconventional police detective learns that his wife is held captive and must overcome a brilliant, revenge-seeking criminal mastermind to rescue his wife by working singlehandedly to apprehend the criminal and his henchmen. It should read like that.

Take out their protagonist and put yours in with 2 adjectives, do the same for the antagonist.

HI Linda, I was over here http://forums.nycmidnight.com/logline-vs-synopsis_topic4510.html trying to get the hang of the diff between LL and Synopsis. SO I will have to work on the second sentence I guess, any constructive suggestions?

Use the same template but their own situation....no names....

state how she "must overcome" the antagonist...describe the antagonist.... to rescue...... by .............

Its so simple it's hard.

yes Simon I just put in a sample logline....use the same "template" but with your own characters.

So it should read; "A soft spoken Kendra has a last shot for the boy of her dreams, who she must help rescue from a cannibalistic family before it's too late."

Commas scare me as I was abused by an English teacher who claimed they are the caveat, or opus for run on sentences. No names got it.

Some of the information on that website is erroneous. Be careful.

The Matrix In the distant future, a bold, insecure hacker learns the truth about the matrix and must overcome a formidable, arrogant agent to save the people of Zion by accepting his fate and defeating an army of sentient machines. read the two samples here...they are the actual loglines used for the films. this is the template for loglines....both utilize the same format.

To follow your lead: A softspoken, young woman learns that the man of her dreams has been kidnapped and must overcome a ruthless cannablistic family to rescue him without the aid of a corrupt Police department.

close....but use more dynamic adjectives ...one polar negative and opposite for protag and antag.

rescue him w/o the aid of a corrupt poice dept BY_defeating___________________. describe how she saves

you're almost there...

Well I was trying that with Soft spoken being the adj for her, without leading on she is a martial arts expert. Then Cannibalistic is pretty off the chart for adj on the other end of the spectrum..

for the adjectives ...bold but insecure vs, formidable but arrogant - snarky unconventional policeman vs brilliant, revenge seeking criminal. we get an immediate sense of what the battle will be

no if that is what they are...ruthless _____ cannibals

note the adj's are 1 negative and 1 positive for both the protag and antag

A soft spoken, young woman learns that the man of her dreams has been kidnapped and must overcome a ruthless cannibalistic family to rescue him without the aid of a corrupt Police department; by using her wits and childhood Martial Arts background. Maybe I need to embrace the "expert with MA" in the L.L as this is how she saves the others. Although I wanted the who does the saving a surprise. I guess that is a spoiler alert the renter of the movie must keep to themselves when hitting the play button.

OK Linda 1:1 ratio on the adjectives. Soft spoken and capable V.S the ruthless and cannibalistic

you're going to need to expose that early on in your script through foreshadowing otherwise no one in the audience will believe it. its not a twist...it is in her character... if she is the protag. if she is the romance character the it can be hidden and used as a twist....but she cannot be in the logline. only protags and antags in logline.

shy, ---------- martial artist

is she the protag? or another character?

if she is not the protag...don't use her in the logline....the protag doesn't have to be the hero

only the protag and antag are used in a logline.

I do disclose in a nonchalant way that she is a martial arts expert, in conversation. Not that you see her in a tournament rather an acknowledgement of her accolades in conversation upon meeting to whom you would think is the hero. To follow up on the shy,_____MA. Disclose that in the adj out front, but what do I use to recall after corrupt PD. It is exciting to learn this, I appreciate your help BTW

A shy, yet capable young woman learns that the man of her dreams has been kidnapped and must overcome a ruthless cannibalistic family to rescue him without the aid of a corrupt Police department; by using her wits and childhood Martial Arts background.

is she the protagonist? if yes then after the police dept you must tell "defeats them by_________."(how does she do it?)

if she isn't the protag then scrap her. put the main character in the template.

LOGLINES WORKSHEET Name Title 1 TITLE TV Drama, TV Sitcom, Comic, Web Series ACT 1 , A , SETTING: Only if in the past or future, on another planet, or in an alternate reality or dimension. a, an positive adjective negative adjective that must be overcome to accomplish the goal descriptive noun(s) MAIN CHARACTER: Who is this story about? NOTES: The notes section is for the course director to provide notes to you and not vice versa. and must overcome INCITING INCIDENT: What happens at the beginning of Act 1? NOTES: , a, an positive adjective negative adjective that will cause the antagonist to win or lose descriptive noun(s) SINGULAR EXTERNAL PRIMARY ANTAGONIST: Who tries to stop the main character from accomplishing the goal? NOTES: ACT 2 to GOAL: What does the main character try to accomplish during Act 2? NOTES: ACT 3 by . HOW: What must happen in order for the story to end? NOTES:  

that's the template.

The Lion King An exiled, gullible lion prince learns of the poor state of his kingdom and must overcome his witty, cowardly uncle to save the animals of his kingdom by returning from exile and usurping his uncle’s reign.

It's all the same format from the template.

Thanks Linda, you are really patient and helpful I appreciate it. I get the gist of it now I believe. The two adj are polar as you stated. One being a strength and the other being a weakness or a vantage point an Antag would capitalize on. In my case it is a (capable and trusting) young woman. , As we all know how trust can get one easily into trouble.... To then overcome the Protag's two adj using the 1:1 ration of ruthless and cannibalistic. Although cannibalistic would not be something for my Protag to capitalize on would it? More like Ruthless and (unorganized) cannibalistic family. Would allow for the Polar adj of my Antag and give my Protag something to capitalize on too. Or is that not needed? i will have to let this stew to get a firmer grasp on it. Thanks again Simon

OK so for the Antag's two adjectives; Ruthless being the strength, I now am trying to land on the Antag's weakness. 1. unorganized or disorganized 2 devil-may-care 2.desperate

Yes...devil may care means like ruthless but ruthless sounds meaner which you want. desperate for? if you could find one word to catch that description.... desperate =insecure

yes write it out today...let it sit for a day ....rewrite it again because I am sure as you think on the film's plot you will find different adjectives...play with it until it sits well with you. You are very welcome. If you need to talk more I am here.

I was using Merriam's Dictionary for my def of a weaknesses of the Antag. coupled with a Thesaurus to get something descriptive.

hahahaha...now you're a writer. I am aways in those books ....the one aspect of film writing, including loglines is lean writing, concise, vibrant, and active ....with the idea less is more....and Show Don't Tell.

Ok so I re read everyone's comments and suggestions or one in the same. I really appreciate the time you all have shared. I rewrote it again, especially after delving further into "Dynamic Adjectives" Thanks Linda. I came up with this: On a much deserved vacation, a capable, insecure woman is snatched and must overcome a ruthless and respected family to save her and friends; by rising to the occasion and defeating the cannibalistic family before they are turned into the family's secret recipe.

Pretty good, but how about a different ending..."before the family has them over for dinner...literally."

What do you mean she's capable? What we got from your logline is this. "A woman and her friends have to defeat a family of cannibals" - I think you should emphasize what the woman does, if she is capable. And also the "respected" part about the cannibals is probably the most interesting part of it all, so I would like to know more about that.

You are on the right track now...but we don't need the setting at the beginning . A capable, insecure martial artist is snatched and drugged and must overcome a ruthless, "respectable" family in order to save herself and friends, by defeating a cannibalistic family. Less is more. the ; is not necessary I put in "martial artist" because you need to define her better. is there another description you prefer to use? Good job. That gets me to think how can that happen? what will she do to save herself and them? You want your logline to hook them so they open the page and start reading it.

Is there anything in her fatal flaw that will play against "Respectable" for her description?

"Generic" loglines are probably not a good use of your creative energy. I'm sure now buried in these 72 comments above are two standard points: A logline in nearly all cases is one sentence, a maximum of 30 words, thus short enough that most screenwriters can say them aloud in one breath without gasping for air at the end.

Good advice Richard, lol.

Hahaahhaaaaaaaa.....let's hear it for the screenplay template....it's the same problem, but, that is what Hollywood uses. Until they capture the notion that screenwriters and directors need to work hand in hand from pre to post production this is the battle. We can still remain creative within the constraints of the templates for the time being. Now who says we need Hollywood to produce? If Art is the main goal then we can find a way to produce our own screenplays.

Why 4, why Mexico, why drugs? Why not young scientists for example which don't hang in clubs but in libraries.

Thanks for the direction Linda. I for some reason want to stay away from martial arts. Maybe when i hear martial arts I am scarred from the 70's bad lipsync movies. Makes me NOT want to watch anything that boasts of it. Even Jackie Chan movies as real as they are "him doing the stunts" seems so far fetched, albeit he is actually doing them, be it rehearsed 120 times. Since I am only going to have 1 sentence and less then 100 characters on some platforms... "Candyman meets Chainsaw Massacre." But won't I have a problem using others titles in my logline? Richard I have been finding that most platforms only allow 200 characters, I am about 80 too much... Some only a 100! Maybe you could whittle it down to one sentence while obtaining the two polar adjectives for both the protag and antag.. I am not able to. As Linda mentioned about recent boiler plates, or templates... How do you use the standard two polar adj all while creating a conflict and challenge in 100 characters, including spaces? It seems that the loglines I am reading ALL go over... I know it is a new world of Tweets and so forth but something has to give on that restriction. Renat- Keep reading...

Simon it is wise if you find something to describe her. BTW this template is what industry uses as seen in all the other movies previously posted. We "play the game", unless of course you are able to produce and fund your own film. Until such time that between this director/auteur relationship finds respect from pre to post production, I suggest you use the template. Your film will immediately be thrown in a pile and they will not turn the page. Remember who you are writing for - it's the reader - an intern who may be younger than you: think about it. The competition is fierce, they find stupid reasons to delete you: don't lose the battle at the primary level of your logline. Certainly your goal is to make sure they keep turning the pages. At with that in mind hopefully they will go past page 5 or 10 before throwing it away. The reference to using film titles is, of course, best used at the time of the Pitch, when you are discussing it with a producer at his office - not in a logline. I hope this helps. Also , as it appears a difficult task, I will admit that it is...but you are almost there and you can do it. My best wishes for your your film- Linda

It has to be in one of these 3 somewhere? which is better? I cannot think of a dynamic adjective other then Capable to describe a bad-ass woman..Can you? As mentioned before stating Martial Arts, Kungfu, Karate Champion just seems so 70's-80's. LOGLINE: A capable and trusting young woman and her friends are kidnapped, they must overcome a ruthless and careless cannibalistic family without the aid of a corrupt Police department by using wits and some childhood martial arts background to try and escape. LOGLINE: On a much deserved vacation, a capable, friendly woman is snatched and must overcome a ruthless, esteemed, cannabilistic family by rising to the occasion and defeating the family before being turned into the family's secret recipe. LOGLINE: With one last chance to land Pete the boy of her dreams our very capable but timid Kendra is kidnapped and must overcome an esteemed, ruthless, cannabilistic family by rising to the occasion and defeating the family before being turned into the family's secret recipe.

Example from The Lion King LOGLINE. An exiled, gullible lion prince learns of the poor state of his kingdom and must overcome his witty, cowardly uncle to save the animals of his kingdom by returning from exile and usurping his uncle’s reign. A ________, ________ _________, is drugged and kidnapped, and must overcome a ruthless, cannabilistic __________ , to rescue her ________, by _______________________. It is a simple "less is more" statement to give the reader an idea of who the protagonist and the antagonist are, and, what happens in the inciting incident and plot point one in Act 1, plot point 2 in Act II, and the climax in Act III. That is all...no more no less, no Proper Names. @Lisa Scott: that is a tagline to be used in a pitch, treatment, or synopsis for the advertisement.

Linda Thanks for pointing the no names. Appreciate the pointers. I guess my challenge is trying to describe a bad ass woman as mentioned in the last post. A guy is so much easier (to me to describe) where one can state Ruff Neck but you do that for a woman (i guess in my eyes) it paints a different picture then an attractive woman who can take care of herself.

@Peter Corey this too only tells the reader some of the information necessary. What you have written is like a tagline or synopsis teaser. A logline specifically enlightens the reader to the dynamic aspects of the protagonist's and antagonist's character, and specific information regarding the inciting incident, and plot points during the film in Acts I, II, and III. It also doesn't help Simon if you do it for him. He needs to train his own mind and belief system that he is capable to create the appropriate verbiage.

That is really good info Peter Corey, I like the way you shared with me an example of 28 words and how NOT trying to stuff all that info Act 123 into a Logline. I was really going nuts trying to trim that down and have so much info in it... I liked your example. I will study it and work it's structure into the movie jacket. From what I gather at this time, I think there is a difference to what Linda has in mind as she shared info and instruction. I think Linda is doing it as though it is a book and that the "logline" is what sucks a reader in. In which I think a version as Linda's would be used more for a Synopsis of Act 123 using polar dynamic adjectives to create tension and conflict. Although it may indeed be the correct way a logline should be, but no longer in today's 100 characters including spaces format. I do appreciate the templates and hints but sometimes as Peter Corey shared really helps too. I got stagnate on it to be honest, only having those templates to refer to. Trying to trim it down to 100 characters... Whereas Peter Corey is doing it like one would see on a movie cover IG,, movie store jacket. Seed & Spark and the rest of this Twitter minded world. 100 characters or less... That is what I am after, I do not have to "play the game" with a producer on this one. I am trying to iron out the jacket cover. All in all, most have been very helpful on this Thank you to those who offered their help. Script is finished BTW. In Pre Production. I am a hyphenate on this one. You know the ol' adage... Thanks again I appreciate the info, direction and positive inputs Simon

simon, this logline is typed on the title page of your script. it is the standard that executives in hollywood expect to see as I showed you with other movies as examples. It's not a synopsis. Glad I could help inform you.

Looks like we could round and round on this. For my application I wanted a movie box Logline and that is it. There is room for something such as a logline or Synopsis I think it is in my Celtx software Title page. I have no idea how the format is accepted or desired. I have ZERO exposure to that. I love the term Dauntless, what a great dynamic adjective. Along with some art on the cover, that too is a descriptive. I have the tagline too. I have been doing the artwork for the T-shirts and have a Tagline of "It's the Meat" Which was pointed out reading a book, one of many in the last few months; pending on location, above title or below it has different impact, or feel when using a Tagline. Thanks again all, great information. Regards, Simon