Screenwriting : The Anti - Hero. by Jorge J Prieto

A perfect example of this is daredevil they not only understand good and bad, but follow law in their own way. They understand that if they get caught justice will come hard on them, but at the same time the good they done; even if not rewarded like normal heroes they can say the world was change.

Big difference between an Anti-Hero and a Tragic Hero.

you're late in the game. most movies today have anti-heroes. comic book characters. every character in Quentin Tarantino movies. Shane Black's new movie, Nice Guys. Dead Pool. Jason Bourne. the recent Oscar Winners (Birdman) . the hot trend is female anti heroes. write strong chick leads.

Thanks guys. Dan, I've been writing tragic heroes (thanks Bill) since 2007, without realizing what noun to use in describing them. I do agree with every characters you cited as anti hero, so thank you, my friend.

Jorge has touched on an essential thing. Equal weights & measures should apply, as in a champion bout. A hero, IMHO, should be equal to his anti in all perspectives. The usual portrait is often reduced to good and bad guy, the winner walking into the sunset with the girl. But life's not like that. Having said that, the biz half of show-biz focuses on the mass audience and the escape factor: the leave 'em feeling good formula. Hollywood must not be underated, they know what they're doing. Its about 'profit' - that its not a bad word. That is also a form of honesty. Ultimately, its all in the writer's magic. I'm trying to think of a hit movie or book where the bad guy is the hero. The Godfather and the original book of The Invisible Man comes to mind. Good 'bad' heroes are hard to come by.

Jorge - not to nitpick on definitions, but I think it's important. The tragic hero is by definition a character of virtue, but ultimately fails in their goal. The anti-hero is a darker character whose morals and psyche may be a bit shady (by conventional definitions), and whose goals and methods in achieving those goals might be even shadier. The anti-hero could fail, too, and could be considered a tragic anti-hero, if appropriately so. Just in case if you're pitching and call your virtous hero an "anti-hero", and the producer says "he's no anti-hero...", if you know what I mean. I like both kinds. Most movies today still rely on the traditional hero, but anti-heroes are cool, too. Sometimes the line could even be a bit blurred - that's really cool when that happens.

Bill: THANKS, my friend. Yes, I see the differences clearly as you described them and I know exactly which of my screenplays I have created these two types of characters. Thanks again for taking the time, buddy. You are THE BEST!

Joseph: You are right. In TV, Tony Soprano, Walter White Breaking Bad, were anti hero, I think?? Don Draper Mad Man, tragic hero? What do u say, BILL? Am I close? JOSEPH? Btw: I personally, always as horrible as H. Ledger jocker character was, I kinda felt sorry for him, when he describes the way he's father cut his face. Weird right? But it moved me. I felt sorry for the guy.

Anthony. There's no story w/o the anti. All-bad & all-good = unauthentic. And if a writer is not presenting a new view, he is not saying much. Not to divert, I used historical Roman archives to produce authentic new perspectives of heroes that challenge the status quo: "So you are the only people who reject my divinity!" [Caligula to the Jews, 37 AD, six years after Jesus]; "For how can a Messiah emerge without first defending the source that introduced one?" Of course, it all has to be validated with non-fiction, but the premise remains the same in fiction too. There is real truth in The Simpsons, it is exceptional cartoon expression that is deceptively simple.

Good darker characters, in my opinion, can be any number of themes. I don't think they have to fail in order to learn, unless your thesis is a lesson you want to impart. Sometimes the killer isn't caught- why can't he or she take you along for the ride, leaving the viewer thinking "wow that's some f%%^d up s%^&!" For instance take this idea I had at one time- "The Whisperer." A shadow soul whispers in unaware people's ears, motivating them at opportune times to commit the horrid acts they were merely considering prior. With this story there is no happy ending, there is no lesson, other than perhaps people are responsible for their own actions. The main point is just to see the f&*d up crap people do when he whispers in their ear, the reader/viewer is along for the ride. I don't know, it just seems everything is too formulaic these days, and I like to break the so-called "rules." If the writing is solid the sky is the limit (that's a big if though). Just my two cents, not that it's even worth two pence.

Anthony: You make a valid point. Like I said, TV series today, from How to Get Away with Murder, American Crime, Bates Motel, Empire, all have anti hero and or flawed heroes. The flaw is important because it provides EMPATHY for the protagonist. We, the audience, like I cited before starting with Tony Soprano , need to like these characters even if they are unlikable. Thanks, Anthony for your contribution to this thread.

Donald, yes! The sky is the limit "if" we have a solid story. But, you really believe that a person, any living person performs an act, any act without a motive? Motive is the catalyst that drives a person to act. Unless you are Jason on Friday The 13th Part 15 and even a good writer can make that one work by loading Jayson up with a reasonable need. Btw, I kinda like your story concept, Whisper. You should at least post your logline in your profile page. Thanks, for your input. This is what Stage 32 April 2016 Content Challenge is all about. I'm grateful , my friend:)

Thanks for the kind words!

Even though it's getting a bit cliched out there with "heroes you love to hate," the idea of the anti-hero is pretty important. In fact, all protagonists in "good" stories are anti-heros. Any hero or heroine suffering from a good moral component will have anti-hero qualities... they don't have to be superheroes either :) It's all in the moral component (check this out http://bit.ly/1HT4Xme). Get that right and your protagonists will be really convincing people, not just cliched anti-heros. My 2 cents.

Jeff - I don't think all protagonists are anti-heroes. While some heroes may have some dualistic qualities, they are not all set up to be anti-heroes, nor is it the intent of all writers to create anti-heroes in all of their stories.

Bill--you're right, I'm wrong. But I'm right about the moral thing :)

Jeff - no doubt that any hero can have some moral/ethical dilemma. That's a great struggle when that happens, and especially when it makes an audience think, "what would I have done in that situation?"

Bill--IMO any story if it's a story has to have a moral component. If you don't have that you don't have a story. I have a long blog post that Stage32 is going publish soon about this topic where I will lay out the difference between a story and "something else." It will bring up some new ideas for how writers can figure out if they actually have a story to begin with. So... stay tuned.

Jeff - sounds good to me. Every moment of my life is fraught with right or wrong. I look forward to stealing your article. I mean....reading it. Heh-heh.

Bill--HA... steal away.... please.

I'll be waiting as well Jeff. Thanks for your contribution to this thread as well. Bill C. what can I say ? Love you man.