Screenwriting : Thoughts on mentoring new screenwriters? by Tim Johnson

Well, first of all, I would never tell someone to compare their own work to others—that's just a really really good way to make someone feel really really bad. Instead, I would encourage new writers to seek out scripts that are similar (or not) to what they wish to achieve and study them; see how they may inform their specific goals. And secondly, everyone develops in their own way so to lump people together into groups doesn't seem appropriate nor fair. Perhaps approach each person as individually and as constructively as possible—as an aspiring screenwriter myself that's what I expect. No self-serving rhetoric please. Thirdly, I would never suggest to someone to "stick to watching movies"—no one has the right to say something like that to anyone—but I would encourage writers to stand up to naysayers and keep going.

I love when the music producer critiques Dewey Cox's version of "That's Amore". What a great film. Walk Hard, Tim! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pUF0Yn7YpE

Rather than suggesting what "those folks" should do, I'd suggest to you that your whole approach to working with writers needs a rethink as it comes across as extremely negative if not downright rude.

Einstein and Edison were told demoralizing things, but they went on to improve and revolutionize the world.

Tim I sort of get your drift on this one. There will always be people who think they are great at something and in reality they are not and indeed are never likely to be any good at that something. I wouldn't waste my time on these people they are deluded and would not take kindly to advice that in essence says you haven't got what it takes. Then there are others who just get it. They know how to do what they do and it's almost instinctive for them. They just get it. I wouldn't give them advice either because they are clearly better at "it" than me. That leaves the middle group, and I will always have time for them because With perseverance they will travel the road and get some of, if not all of the way to where they want to be. That said I do get frustrated when asked for advice and freely give it only for the "asker" almost immediately then wants to argue with me why my advice is wrong. If somebody doesn't want to take my advice that's fine with me, but please don't ask if you are not going to give it proper consideration.

A side comment, not directed at anyone in particular: Just as there are some ego-invested, headstrong new writers there are some ego-invested, headstrong experienced writers/gurus/consultants/etc. And both extremes are hard to deal with or share meaningful advice. Both do more damage than inspire.

Mentoring new screenwriters (actors & directors) is my passion and since I’m retired, I guess it’s my hobby too. I’ve run into an awful lot empty headed know-it-all types that really should not be dreaming of becoming successful writers – but I’ll never say that out load because I really don’t want to crumple their little feelers. Many just want to debate some trivia but I just don’t have the time (desire) to argue with a fence post all night. I never compare one writer’s work with another’s but I do carefully go over the well established tried and true customs and traditions trying to get them to understand the rational of sticking pretty close to the norms while understanding that there are no absolute rules. If they just don’t get it – I become very busy working on my own projects.

Jeff – I noticed that you are looking to maybe relocate to a smaller town. Take a look at Ashland Oregon. It’s one of the most indie filmmaker friendliest communities in the Country.

Has anyone seen the French film Marguerite? It's about a wealthy French woman (Marguerite) who is a bloody awful singer, yet aspires to be an opera star. Nobody has the heart to tell her how bad she is, and especially not those who make money off of her. It's in theaters now. Catherine Frot won the Cesar Award (the French equivalent of the Academy Awards) as best actress for her role as Marguerite, and the film won three other Cesar's as well. And Meryl Streep's film, Florence Foster Jones, opens next month. It's a simliar story, but based on a real person, who bought her way to Carnegie Hall back in the 1940's. Both are touching dramas about delusional people; the dreams they have; and how those around them respond.

Thanks to all who responded to the question. I clearly pushed some buttons with my poor phrasing which was not my intent. Sometimes my brand of humor doesn't translate so well to the blog-post format and can come off snarky if you don't know me, so I apologize for that. I maybe pick that up from dad who's favorite dad-joke was his advice on improving your golf game - "Oh, that's easy. Just take 6 months off then quit - get it, get it!???" I am not a guru or a consultant or a teacher, just a guy who loves to write stories and has been studying screencraft for a few years (so I WAS that new guy not too long ago). Mentoring is not my "trade", just something we all do from time to time, which I consider a privilege. I have never told anyone to stop writing. But I do feel, like Jeff and Doug and Michael, that it's important to focus your own time and energy more on the ones who sincerely want to learn and not get caught up in those who feel their writing is perfect already.

Good morning, eager young minds.

Tim – I’ve been writing in one form or another since the early 1970s. Obviously my writing must be perfect by now. HA, not even close! I don’t think there is such a thing as perfect writing. What would ole Bill Shakespeare say to that?

I think there are a lot of perfect stories. Writers who master the craft of storytelling have graced the world with perfect stories for decades...even centuries.

Patricia - I definitely relate to thinking screenwriting would be a piece of cake! My wife and I came out of a bad movie 5 years ago and I said, "Geez, even I could write a better movie than that!'. [begin montage of humbling experiences]. I'd written fiction for years and vaguely remembered that screenplays had some kind of special indenting rules. So next day I went looking for a book on the indenting rules. Imagine my surprise when I discovered 50 books on the subject (most of which I now own). Maybe there was a little more to this craft after all? Personally I've gotten a lot out of reading scripts. It was very eye-opening to examine, for example, Steve Martin's "LA Story" (incredibly sparse) to Cameron Crowe's "Elizabethtown" (incredibly dense) and coming away realizing the "rules" aren't so rigid after all and it's so much more about characters and story. And hardly at all about the indenting. :)

I think that mentoring, teaching and 'guruing' are three different things. Since I qualify as none of the above (I don't even like ashrams) I would probably quote someone smarter than myself. "Write for the joy of it." - Stephen King If one is motivated, there are plenty of books and classes to learn the craft AND the business. I could advise on some that I've read. And of course there is the 10,000 hour rule. I had a mentor once, but he didn't teach me how to write, he was an example of how to be a writer.

As someone who has been called a guru, I truly hate that term. And only those WITH those huge egos really relish in or prefer that term. Those are probably the ones who charge way too much and give way too little. Most consultants/teachers/mentors/pros do what we do with very little ego. until we're called out on message boards at least...then maybe a little of that ego comes thru lol.

It seems with as many bad scripts that actually make their way onto media that there is potential out there for even the awful- just my opinion.

For the first group just let them find out for themselves. if they are no good they will get no where and eventually realise this. You just can't tell people. They don't listen.

It’s not the ones who fail and don’t listen so much as the arrogant ones who refuse to listen/learn. We are all ignorant but most of us are willing to learn/be taught. It’s the arrogant ones who refuse to learn who fall into the stupid category. My sad advice is to not waste your precious time with them. The real talent is being able to distinguish ignorance from true stupidity.