Screenwriting : Setting the mood or tone of a scene by Rod Seitz

It is a visual medium. You could mention it in a clever location description.

“The road was dusty, dry and nasty. Like a blues slide guitar - All mood and attitude”.

I wouldn’t. But if you did it skilful enough readers may enjoy it. Remember the sound track for “Dog Day Afternoon”? That movie was moody and full of tone. No music whatsoever.

Write it as you see/hear it. If a specific song is important to telling the story, name it. If you chose well, the line producer won’t get THAT irritated.

Reading the first draft of a first-time screenwriter this past weekend, he included Prince's Purple Rain and Bruce Springsteen's Born in the USA - yea, good luck gettin' those, geezo

Hi, Rod. Can you share more context? What is the style or genre? Or is your question just something you are pondering in general, not specific? Is the music just for the audience? If you are talking about say... an action scene like a fight sequence in John Wick, I would not make any background music reference in the script simply because it is unnecessary, misplaced, and could throw the reader out of the story. Great action writing is succinct and heightened with sharp pacing, how the type flows on the page. Action scenes tend to be written in a way that mirrors the quickness, the action, and the visceral intensity of the scene's substance, perhaps in choppy short sentences, lots of white space, etc. A reader's eyes move quickly down the page. Too much description can get in the way. Overwriting is problematic. And IF/WHEN this script should go any further, other people would make those decisions. Or... is the music something a character is hearing or choosing or interacting with in some way that is important or relevant to the story? If so, then perhaps put it in. It's YOUR screenplay. Until someone else shows up, you are the filmmaker. Or perhaps you are writing your own film to produce. Anyway, agree with Dan M, look to other screenwriters, see how they handled such things on the page. ;)

I like that Beth: "Until someone else shows up, you are the filmmaker." Nice

Or, maybe once the Production Co. buys it and takes you on as a consult, you can mention, when I was writing this, that song was playing out in my head, who knows, maybe they will pony up the 25 grand to use it. Everytime I hear a famous song in a A list feature, I'm like ooops there's another 25 grand! Of course music license vary greatly but you get the idea.

To answer the other part of your question, Rod, if you choose to do so you would just make note in the description.

If there's a song i would really like to play during a scene but i know i won't have the rights, i just mention the type of music it is like "Independent rock" and i add with "a similar vibe of" or "in the same vibe as"...However it depends on the song, if it's not a well known song, i don't mention it cuz the reader won't know what i'm talking about.

I have, if someone wants to pass on my work just because I did that then I'm glad they passed. If someone passes on a great story because you put a song in there, well I mean? You can be clever, you can say, an electric pop song like...….. plays in the back ground. Edgar Wright wrote Baby Driver to music and he got 80% of he songs he wrote in there. He's a writer/director though and so he can do pretty much what he wants as can Tarantino ( don't leave us Q ) If a song is vital to the scene you should probably to have a back up scene ready to go if rights aren't obtained.

Kay why do you have to answer peoples comments and be snotty. I'll tell you what kind of writer does. One that says this is important to have music here. One who has known the songwriter in question for thirty years and already has a green light on using it Kay. Like I said if a reader passes on my work because of that then I am glad about it. I also said that you can phrase it in a certain way. Electro music is a wide genre. I get what your saying but you also need understand that not everyone who writes needs to pass a studio reader to get work made. You need to consider the industry has more than one way to skin the cat. Beth on the other hand looks both ways before she answers a question. I'm not getting into it with you. You have your ways and I have mine and maybe I'm not as green as you might think.

Kay Luke I have an ancillary question. What about specific product placement mention? If I mention Almond M&M's in a scene,would it be a reader red flag?

As for using songs, like Terry Rossio said in Wordplay, "If you crave control, direct."

Getting the rights to music is a nightmare: the research, a master, BMI and ASCAP., the paperwork. I produced a doc where I stupidly made a song the cornerstone, and had a another I wanted to use. I sought festival licenses. The former song cost $3000 and put the production way over budget. A hard lesson to learn. The rights holder also had a condition the doc not be entered into festivals in Texas. (???) The latter was a breeze I got for free. True, a doc isn't a narrative, but the licensing process is the same.

And Fair Use issues.

Then the cover I wanted a local musician to record. A copy of the recording had to be sent to the rights holder who would give a thumbs up or down. The cost of recording a decent rendition and getting the song to the holder was significant. After all that, they declined to grant the rights.

One may write what they please. Some readers will bristle, some won't. Why add an element that could add one iota of a pass. As a reader, I don't pass Spec writers solely for using specific music but I do caution them. I'm good with that advice.

Further, why are known writers/directors used as a reference. Wright famously sent actors the BABY DRIVER script with a flash drive of the music. He had a $34M budget and a vision the studio wrote a check for delivery of it. I'll bet the music licensing office personnel got gray hair negotiating all the rights.

Well, first, a spec script is a flexible document. It is not carved in stone—sheesh, for cryin' out loud! And please stop saying "it will be thrown out" when that is not absolute. That may be what you would do, Kay, as you keep telling us, but not everyone. How do I know that? My mentor. Other professional execs/producers. Other professional writers. Etc. Second, a song choice can be ignored or changed or removed. Clearly. The point of a spec is to incite interest and to use every option and tool available to you to capture the essence of the story and entertain your reader. Writers tend to be very judicious and purposeful when making choices in a spec. These choices are not made lightly. Plus you are not "selling" an IP if you mention a song in a spec script. It is not actually using it in any true sense. It is a proposal. A spec is a proposal. You are selling an execution of an idea, a possibility, and are making suggestions. I gotta say, that is incredibly cynical to assume someone is plagiarizing, not to mention insulting. There's this thing called "fair use," is there not? Third, respectfully, not everyone here has the same goals as you or is wishing to be in "Hollywood." There's a big huge world out there! Some are interested in independent filmmaking and not writing for others but rather writing for themselves and for their own projects. There's really no need for imposing judgment when someone asks a question, especially when we do not have the full context. The answer usually and truthfully depends on many complexities. Generalizations are not necessarily always the answer, there are gray areas. Plus we do have some writer/filmmaker dwellers in this forum of screenwriting too. ;) Also, what's with all the weird capitalization? Gawd, Twitter is ruining grammar. Lol!

Then why not make the proposal the spirit of the specific song. I propose a song like this.

I worked with a published songwriter who partered with me on a script. We wanted to have a character hum a theme song to invoke a feeling. They knew Fair Use is the first five bars free - the rest you pay for. Fair Use in documentary work is very clearly defined. The laws can be Googled.

Sure, Tony S, as I said, use all options and tools that are available to you. ;) Look, I understand how expensive and how hard it is to secure usage rights to specific music—I used to work in graphics/branding and advertising.

Pamela, just FYI, Laura is no longer on this site for a variety of reasons. Ah, trademark. That is a whole other monster. Lol! I do not envy producers and/or filmmakers having to deal with a trademark.

I saw a program recently that dealt with highly visible and widely known board games on a shelf behind the characters. Monopoly and Trivial Pursuit. The 'monopoly" was painted in here and there in the same fire engine red as the background. It looked like Alien text, but it was obvious what it was. Same as the filled in "trivial pursuit." Not digital in post. Deliberate in practical.

Though agreed in principle re: the OP, one experience is not all experience. It's just as valid another boss or reader/gatekeeper might not care. Bottom Line: why risk it.

Respectfully, a lot happens from spec up through development. I assume that process is a bit different from company to company. My mentor, she’s a former V. P. of Development at United Artists. ;)

Question answered, Rod? :)

Personally speaking, I got the slap of reality quite early. But it was delivered with kindness and guidance. It grounded me. I was extremely lucky to have my path cross with such a generous person. Most everyone else, execs, agents, producers, writers, filmmakers, etc, that I have conversed with and/or have sought or been given further guidance, in the Lounge or through S32, have been the same: kind. ;)

I just got a slap.

Sigh... in a perfect world

How does a screenwriter fire a reader from a studio, or a passing producer. Or the ilk. That's their decision, and one the writer must accept regardless any brave attempt to be defiant in the face of a pass.

Huh? Doctor. Birth.

Getting back to your question...

Rod, I think there are a myriad of creative ways to set up vibe, including mentioning the genre or type of music, without naming any one song or artist. i.e. "Smokey blues riffs hang in the air like a... " Use all your senses to fill in the gaps. "It feels like..." That type of challenge is what makes writing fun - creating an experience, not just words on paper. We've all been trained in this fine art all our lives, btw - every time we've heard lyrics that tell a story, or listened to a passionate spoken word poet. But of course, screenplays are their own art form, so you'll want to strike a balance on being descriptive and keeping things moving and tight.

Like Kramer, I have 'The Kavorka'. It's a curse. :)

I'm an optimist but also a realist, so I don't know why it still shocks me to see that the most vocal self-proclaimed experts often have no IMDB screenwriting, directing, or producing credits. Like as in zero, nada, nil. Yet many such people make their living selling books on how to succeed as a screenwriter. Others just like to pose as the real deal online. (Maybe some confuse writing a role with playing one?) So word to the wise, search out a person's credits before allowing them undue influence on your creative process. Like a good script, actual achievements are shown in action, not described in dialog. ;)

Dan M - I have.

Hi Rod,

Pardon my comment if it was already mentioned, but I'd write a specific song into a screenplay if I felt it was pertinent in that spot. I have also written "A song similar to (xxxx) plays in the bg."

If somebody likes your story enough to keep reading it, and maybe even to option it from you....they certainly won't stop reading it because you put some song names in it. And if it was that big a deal (acquiring songs for films), producers who do acquire them for their films wouldn't acquire them.

They do cost money to acquire, obviously, and everything is relative. So if you're writing an ultra-low budget story, and are hoping for a dozen or so popular songs to be included in it, they probably won't be. The last low-budget film I saw had a $5,000,000 budget, and had about a dozen popular songs in it.

Best fortunes in your creative endeavors, Rod!

"I have, if someone wants to pass on my work just because I did that then I'm glad they passed.

"I agree with Karen. If a reader passes on a script because the writer included a song the Reader should be immediately fired because they aren’t doing their job."

The discussion thread is about studio readers, not outside readers. It stems from Kay's thoughts, "...look at it from a Producer's point of view. ... Besides, what kind of Writer can't write a scene that's not dependent on the perfect song playing?

PASS."

And so on and so on, all the way back.

Take a chill pill, Jack. "I agree with Karen. If a reader passes on a script because the writer included a song the Reader should be immediately fired because they aren’t doing their job." That's ambiguous.

Kay Luke Thanks for answering my question about the Almond M&M's. I mentioned them as a sexual metaphor in a phone sex scene from my first script - hard shell, gooey center, and a nutritious nut inside.

Rob you must be so tried of getting your posts high jacked. Tony S I answered the question. Kay directed his comment at me which I also answered. Jean I can nether confirm nor deny that one should take advice only from a person with an IMBD profile, perhaps some choose to practice anonymity! Kay I understand the business and I'm not getting into it with you. Now can we all get back to helping people rather than the same old same old blah blah AGAIN!

That's an intriguing premise, Karen. But it's also true beyond the shadow of the slightest doubt that there is such a thing as paid _______________ (writers/inciters/engagers and even disinfo trolls) out there. (As well as unpaid people who just like to posture.) A close friend and media insider recently shared how disillusioned they were a few years back when they first learned that their favorite sports team hires such characters to stir up drama online and on twitter. The thinking is "controversy sells" (ratings/clicks...). It's pretty obvious that's how a lot of sports shows are structured as well. Between that unreal reality, and the increase of cleverly concealed product placement, it's turning into a TRUMAN SHOW world. Lol