Screenwriting : Two hour (120 page script) out the door? by Richard F Roszko

Those of us that have been in the real business already know that - so what's your point? How do we get the young up-n-comers to understand the real world, or should we even try?

You do need to be kind of established to convince someone that you need to tell your story in over 120 minutes, though. Even though it is not a slotting problem for movie theaters, a longer script means more scenes, more shooting days and more post-production days, which equates to a bigger budget.

But sure, if you are able to shoot 140 pages, now there's no need to cut scenes to hit the 120 minute mark. Even though a lot of people (even with streaming) feel a bit hesitant about watching a movie that's over two hours.

Unless you're producing your own films, the studio or network "gatekeeper" who greenlights your script will look for something 120 pages or less. Sometimes way less. A friend who just produced a great action movie with name talent is releasing it for a short theatrical run at 82 minutes. Streaming isn't going to change that. Longer movies require a lot more patience from the viewer. But younger movie-goers will always prefer a movie jam-packed with high-intensity action rather than a slow, dragged-out 120 minutes.

You can do anything you want. Convincing strangers in the business that you know more than them is hard.

But there are always unicorns, like this 140-pg original spec. None of her people told her to cut pages. Screen runtime 113 minutes. Nominated for multiple Oscars. I guess it helps your leverage if you can direct. But I don't know; never wrote a screenplay for an American based movie studio. They don't ask writers for marketing/selling advice.

https://focusfeaturesguilds2020.com/promising-young-woman/screenplay/Pro...

Yes, I get all of your points :) Being established would cut to the chase quickly. A non-produced screenwriter probably needs to follow the established guidelines...

Thanks for your insights, Richard! Much appreciated! I learned sometime back that screenplays should be around 110 pages - and that's what I try to stick to. But now I know why! All the Best!

At the moment, that is changing now that a lot of things are happening more and more on the streaming platform instead of cinemas.

Good point, Richard! Although the total run time can be wildly different than the total page count, so I tend not to care about the page count. Gary - don't forget that with an established IP, an audience is less likely to get upset with more screentime, so I'm not sure if the big franchises count in favor of your argument.

The issue is it doesn't usually go studio > movie theatre for most film productions. The path to market is more like prodco > sales agent > international trade shows/screeners > studio acquisition departments > studio distribution heads > distribution partners > retail/vod/television/rental/theatrical acquisition teams

That's before getting into the development side of things and all of that is exponentially multiplied since it covers dozens of regions and platforms. That's before considering market demographics and modern audience behaviour.

There's this huge machine that's evolved to work in a certain way with certain expectations where ~90mins is the norm. It's the ISO shipping container of the film world where there's few exceptions.

You can either run smoothly through that giant machine or you can be that squeaky wheel that grinds everything to a halt - which will most likely happen when you show a sales agent your early rough cut and they tell you cut it back to and hour and a half max or they will.

Jerking off over to some rare exception or lecturing the industry on how it needs to change achieves nothing. That's part delusion and part trying to stop a speeding train.

You can either work with reality or sit around living in a fantasy.

CJ - Walley's words of wisdom; pay attention!

huh, well for one thing the longer it is the bigger the budget. Also, i don't know if I'd have the sitting power for that. You want to be able to consume a whole story in one shot. Any longer than 1.5 hours and my ass gets sore! If i leave to finish later, if it's a feautre, you would have really lost momemtum. At that point, it's better to think limited series for TV show.

All the people queuing at the check-in desks for a flight wish they could take everything they need in their baggage and not have to even concern themselves with the weight and dimensions. However, everyone, despite the stress and compromise, accepts that a limit has to be set somewhere and everything moves faster, smoother, and fairer if they oblige. Well, accept a tiny percentage who froth at the mouth at thought they can't be an exception, believe their circumstances are different, and threaten never to fly with the airline ever again. The airline however doesn't care, it doesn't care that another airline might have a slightly different limit, it doesn't care that private jets exist, it doesn't care how many seats have been booked that day, that plane is taking off on time regardless because the economic system around that business and the greater industry has evolved to work that way. Can it change? Absolutely, but not rapidly and not without a clear incentive.

Being able to write within a certain page-count or adapt a script to suit one is a core professional writing skill much like being able to pack accordingly for a trip is a basic part of being an adult.

hilarious. folks doing contests and with 0 physical evidence of producing a competent wedding video always seem to know how the industry works.

Con themselves that they can output 150-300 minutes of content for corporate streamers.

Don't know. I like to see this from a broader perspective. Always think about the mass medium TV; as long as there is a 'mass discussion' about what we 'people "glare" at" there isn't a 'mass uprising against 'whatever' system', give the people their bread, and games as being tv or (in these modern times) discussion forums - so they feel they have 'worth', feel smart, empowered, by agreeing with each other, bashing each other's heads in or (as I do right here) complaining about the system; thereby BINDING them, with, or without them knowing it.. Oh well, time for another cup of coffee. Keeps me at peace. If we really want to change the screenwriting system, we really have to think "out of the box," instead of just using the term as a marketing tool, and gladly (fixed mindset) crawl back into our own 'box' of misery.

I will always deeply admire any creative who wants to change things for the benefit of the audience. We owe a lot of what we have to those rebels from the past.

What I find frustrating is when people want to buck the trend with zero repercussions to their commercial appeal or, in fact, want to be as market orientated as humanly as possible at the same time. We can't do both, they are incompatible, and innovators typically have a much tougher time than those who eventually follow them.

I recently wrote a blog that covers the same attitude to believing there's going to be some sort of revival which will act as that magic cavalry a lot of writers wish for; You Don't Need a Revival, You Need to Move With the Times.

There was a member on here once who used to denigrate other members on a daily basis. I won't share his name but it rhymed with "Cheater Story". He tried to keep his career a secret but he wasn't too difficult to do due-diligence on. Turned out his entire filmmaking history was corporate videos for a firm he worked for in NYC... that he was putting together via Power Point.

Cinemas are having to become a larger place for "consumers" because of mainstream expectations and what resultantly makes the most money. It does limit creative freedom, but equally, we are getting into an exciting place where Hollywood is running out of ideas - it could lead to some of the best creative work we have seen in a long time, it is just a matter of getting it out to people.

Well, it also depends on how effective the film. Is it two hours of great cinema? From an audience's point of view, it depends on the context of a specific movie, no? I've certainly seen plenty of good and great films that were over two hours, and I loved them. But I certainly will not sit through a bad movie, whether it's 5 minutes or 90 minutes or whatever. Of course, from a development/production point of view, 90 minutes make much economic and market sense. Art costs money to both make and sell.

A side thought and a unicorn, I know, but... isn't Zack Synder's Justice League over 4 hours? Whew, that will take a while to get through this weekend. Lol. I read somewhere that they are looking at theatrical release, at least in some parts of the world. ;)

Part of the problem faced in the low budget indie world, and I know this is going to sound completely insane but it's true, is some acquisition departments in some regions don't even watch the movies they pick up. They sell on the trailer, the star power, along with trust in the agent and sometimes part of a package of properties being offered as a deal.

So, you could have a great movie but, because it's not another widget that simply slots into the mechanism, it's written off immediately.

A lot of media movies around like this including music. It's cold, ruthless, and devoid of artistic merit.

Now of course, if someone wanted to operate outside of this, I would expect them be considering other routes to market anyway such as working the festival circuit while buying a lot of positive PR and relying mostly on domestic sales. Producers using that strategy may have a totally different attitude to something like page count but then festivals have their own systems I'm not too familiar with.

Then there's bigger deals for bigger projects. Some indie films are pitched by major prodcos at festival and secure MGs that give them a lot more flexibility as they are less reliant on revenue streams such as TV or certain theatrical regions.

Dan MaxXx Thank you for posting that link. I read it. Smooth. (90 percent conversation, 10 % scene setting, This is out on netflix? now isnt it? Although I had thought it was a series. I hadnt watched it because I dont watch scary stuff. Anyhoo. Thanks for posting the link

@CJWalley you make a good point. Things have changed dramatically. The growing segment that spends billions on media though, are they the youngsters? We, int he western world have an agiing population.........maybe we can hold on to the bastion of golden oldies for a bit longer. But yet again, you are right, Indies writers are the last bastion, the present and future way.

Dan M, yes, ditto, thank you so much for posting that link. I've wished to read the script for Promising Young Woman, a film clocked just under two hours. I am so thrilled about the film's and writer/director Emerald Fennell's nominations. Katherine, the film is currently available on Amazon Prime, YouTube, and Google Play, I believe. ;)

To add, Richard, I understand your post's focus, and its discussion is steered more toward traditional theater release and its possible market restraints, and how that affects screenwriting. Still, as others mentioned, streaming/on-demand is changing things already. It offers a more flexible way to create, distribute one's work, and caters to other creative freedoms, such as film length. I mentioned Zack Synder's Justice League above. What excites me about that film is how that is an example of supporting filmmakers. This is exciting. He got to make the film he wanted to without studio interference, and it's in a 4:3 aspect ratio, which I love, and it is shown on HBO Max in 4:3 ratio, respecting cinema. Its length is certainly unique—I guess there was talk of breaking it up into 4 episodes? And, I'm sure some parts probably could have been cut. But, whatever. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the superhero genre. What interests me is filmmakers. Page count has always been a forum discussion, sometimes a heated debate. Yet, it too truly depends on a specific project, exactly what, and who it is geared toward. There are typical page counts and preferences for mediums, sure, but like most things in screenwriting, it depends on how those pages are written and the context of what those pages contain. While I support and love love love movie theaters and enjoy the freedom of streaming, I'm hoping a natural symbiotic relationship will form between the two. I don't see movie theaters ever disappearing. Rather, I see a widening opportunity and creative flexibility for filmmakers and writers. :)

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Personally, I like a longer movie. I like a night-in where I can start watching at 8pm and finish at 11pm without having to gear up for something different mid-way.

Makes me reflect back to when the midnight movie era had double or even triple features. Two to three films, often of a very similar tone, for the price of one. Tarantino and Rodriguez tried to bring that back with Grindhouse but it didn't work. Maybe it would have if it was released now via streaming - but I doubt it would have been as lucrative.

I cant count the number of times i fell asleep trying to watch Snyder’s 4 hour version of justice league. - the longer you write the better it has to be - only long classics made in - others were flops

Richard F Roszko Beth Fox Heisinger very much appreciated both of your perspectives - it has expanded my thinking!

James Norris Arterburn 140 pages is not unheard of, but consider how 210 pages could much more easily become a 4-part mini-series for Netflix with each episode no more than an hour. It's not the page count, it's whether or not your structure supports having that many pages.

James I would say 210 pages isn’t the fastest way to tell the story. But you may also set a new standard.

Number of pages is no more a qualifier of quality than the length of the authors surname. However it may be an indicator to the writers skill. No so much as a writer, but recognising a story that is a movie. Many great stories just aren’t movies.

It used to be 120 pages for a two hour movie and since screenplays are leaner nowadays 105 to 110 is more the norm for a two hour movie.

Great perspectives you are all sharing.