Screenwriting : Hello and Editing by Barry Smith

Barry, I'm with you in that I like to edit my own scripts.

Lots of times, I end up going over the 120-page mark with my own screenplays...and I'm happy as long as I don't create a 131-page (or bigger) screenplay.

My philosophy is: Whatever it takes to tell the story so that it makes sense and can keep readers glued to it, I'll use it...as long as I get between 90-130 pages.

So glad you've joined Stage 32, Barry! All the VERY BEST to you!

Cheers Jim, that's very kind. Good luck with your own projects. A question though, have you ever encountered people saying not to go over 120 or it's unlikely to be read? What's your thinking on that?

Have a great weekend

Barry

It's my impression that the magic 120 has been downsized in recent years to about 110.

Barry -

First of all, edit it yourself. And be brutal about it. If you do happen to sell it, there will be other people ready with a sharp, bloody knife to whittle it down to size, if need be. Better it's the guy who understands the script like no one else.

I'm going to pass on advice I've received from multiple conversations with agents, producers and a half-drunk studio exec I met in a bar. I'm just the messenger here, so no one get upset at me for relaying what I was told.

1) Keep your page count under 100 unless you've written The Godfather or Lawrence of Arabia. Even then, in today's market... But if you're at 120 plus pages, readers will look at the page count from an unknown writer and dismiss it out of hand. Readers know their boss's expectations and they aren't about to put their job on the line unless a script knocked their socks off. There had better be something really special about a script that's 120+ pages before they're going to do that. Also, two full hours of mostly dialogue isn't going to excite a studio executive unless your dialogue is on par with Aaron Sorkin.

2) Every decision is driven by cost. The longer the script, the longer it takes to produce and the more it costs for sets, crew, cast, equipment rentals, post-production, insurance, etc.

And the other piece of the puzzle- the longer the running time, the less showings per day at a theater. Let's say you have a 100 page script vs a 120 page script. A 100 page (minute) script would most likely mean five showings per screen/day vs. four for a 120 page script. In a 400 seat auditorium, assuming all seats sold at $13 per ticket, that one more showing per day equals an $5200 of box office revenue PER DAY, PER SCREEN. Spread that across all the screens in the country/world. As you can see, this very quickly becomes a VERY significant amount of money. (This was actually diagramed out for me by a studio exec on a cocktail napkin not long ago. This same exec went on to say he has a standing policy with his readers to not even consider a script longer than 90 pages because the final cut will most likely be 95 to 100 minutes, depending on the director.)

3) Finally, here's the best advice I was given. Cut it until it bleeds, then cut some more. If there's so much as a word that doesn't lead directly to the progression of the story, get rid of it.

Click the link below and take a look at the runtimes in this list of 2021-2022 new release films.

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls029217360/?sort=runtime,desc&st_dt=&mode=det...

Note that once you get past the movies the studios expect to be blockbusters or are tentpole franchises, the runtimes drop dramatically.

Good luck to you!

Thank you, for this very thorough response,.and very enlightening one too. Sounds like good advice. I will do my best to take it.

Barry, I've run into some contributors right here on Stage 32 who told folks not to exceed 120 pages on screenplays or the scripts won't even be considered...and that advice came when I first joined 32 a couple of years ago.

But then I took a look (here on 32, too!) at a post that listed some scripts that actually got produced despite their needing 110-130 pages apiece to fully tell their stories...and still clocked in with shorter run times than page count would indicate. (I just wish I had the post's title memorized.)

With that in mind, my take on not exceeding 120 pages is: As long as I don't leave holes in the story, as long as the story makes sense, AND can keep readers glued to it...if it takes 120 pages for me to get the job done, so be it.

Now, when I outline what I'm trying to turn into a feature script, I try to get under 120 pages...but it doesn't always work out. (And I'm okay with that.)

Nice to hear from you, Barry...all the VERY BEST to you! (And good luck on your own projects!)

Cheers for all these comments, I appreciate your sincerity to help and differing opinions and the pros and cons of hanging out in bars. Like many things in life it seems to come down to quality over quantity, or, if you've got both, that's pretty good too. So thanks all, I think I'll enjoy using this site.

@Barry Save each copy before you edit and re edit, that way you can see past errors on page and chart your growth. Also in case you rush and cut out any useful nuggets by mistake you can always go back to retrieve them. Enjoy Stage 32!

Thank you Debbie, sounds like good advice to me, I will definitely do this in the future.

I agree and disagree with most of the comments I've read in here (I'm a Pisces, you know the two fish headed in opposite directions). When it comes to editing your own material; you'll run a spell checker and the format assistant, but you'll still miss a few things - never fails. An outside editor will find things that you can't see in your own work. I'll bet it can be written tighter. You know your story, but let someone else (who doesn't know it) read it and tell you if they think it's cohesive, logical, makes sense ant they understand it. You'll be surprised at what you learn.

When I write my first draft it is usually bloated larger than it needs to be. Lots of time I don't have to get rid of large sections I love to cut it down. What I do is make it brief on each action line and dialog. I read each action and think to my self what is the shortest way to get to the point the quickest. Once a director gets the script he should know how to arrange the visual concepts of the script to make it work. Also simpler the dialog the quicker it flows.

Cheers Doug Nelson , I'm actually going to use the Script Reading service on here, so glad you think that's a good idea, or at least one of your fish heads does. And thanks @Marven, that's a good point you make about the director being able to arrange the action, it's good to think about them sometimes, you can forget about them when deep in writing. And @Wally, that was something I never considered, but who knows...

Sometimes putting it away for a few weeks and not thinking about it at all before taking another look at it can help give yourself a fresh look at it. Some writers leave their scripts months before taking another look at it.

Cheers @ewan, but after the Euros final I'm not sure I''ll be leaving the house much and I need something to do. ;(

Hi Barry try this. Get each scene and write down what it achieves. Do we learn the character has a fear of spiders for instance. Do any scenes do the same job? If so. Find the best one and delete the other. Do this until all the scene that are “functionally” duplicates of the other scenes are gone.

Now rewrite the screenplay. You may go and get the cool bits that were deleted and combine them with the surviving scenes. I did this to a screenplay I had. I lost 11 pages off the front. It was better for it and sold after the pruning.

Barry Smith, I think you're right to say it's a skill or screenwriters should have. I'd say it's an essential one.

Learn to enjoy it. Learn to write concise prose and tight scenes. You're not technically losing anything as you can keep old drafts.

Learn to kill your darlings - write with as much freedom and creativity as you want, but be ruthless in your rewrites. If you're married to every word, you won't be able to objectively assess your work to see if it serves a story purpose.

Absolutely agree with CJ, above. It's a vital skill that all screenwriters should possess, and if they don't yet, they should learn to develop. In my many years helping writers with their scripts (be it reading, editing, polishing or rewriting), I've always managed to find ways of reducing the page count of bloated scripts without losing anything essential.

You're also right that sometimes a writer can be too close to their work; they can't see the wood for the trees, which is why an objective script editor can often help here, working out more concise ways of conveying a visual or dialogue for those visuals and moments of speech that are necessary.

So, while I would urge you to try editing yourself, if after you've given it a go you're still struggling to bring that page count down to a reasonable length, then maybe it's then worth having someone else take a look at it.

Feel free to PM me anytime, Barry.

Thanks CJ, Eoin and Phil, we used to say kill your darlings when I worked in advertising too,. Many dead darlings. Does seem like a necessary skill. And cheers Phil for the offer. Hope all your own works are going well.

Where do your beats land? Thats more important than your total page count

also, I've heard writers editing out "the" and other things like that. your lose pages of of superfluous words

Cheers Michael, writing style sounds like a very original way of bringing down the word count. I bet James Joyce never had this problem with Ulysses.

Barry Smith :D (Joyce).

Cheers to everyone for all your thoughtful comments, I'm editing it down now and your advice on everything from dialogue to writing style to putting space between youaelf and the work, using editors and how many pages is acceptable is very helpful as I proceed. So hope all's going well for you and thank you for connecting on here.