Producing : My Opinion and what i think, please respond :) by Leon Reaper

Leon Reaper

My Opinion and what i think, please respond :)

Do you think that movies/audiences are abit too sensitive when involving children? Im doing a movie script that involves a child serial killer, the images wont be graphic, im going to be using the whole (you cant see it but you know what is happening or what's going to happen) approach, is it a taboo or something? there are evil people in the world and is it so wrong to be truthful to the audience about events that actually do happen?

Leon Reaper

i guess it depends on where its being viewed

Ren Kennedy

If you approach it as an evil child it won't be coming from a place of truth - you have to figure out why he/ she are acting the way they are and give compelling reasons and then the audience will forgive the most atrocious behaviour everything must be justified and the actor must be absolutely convinced that their action was for a good reason or it won't fly. Just my two cents but as an actor I can never decide my character is evil. The child thing is tricky but if treated with sensitivity could be very compelling. Good luck.

Leon Reaper

no not a serial killer that preys on children sorry i worded it wrong -__-

Leon Reaper

not that i mean a serial killer that preys on children sorry i worded it wrong -__-

Karen Keslen

Polemics subjects always generate polemic. Killing children is something disturbing and even among criminals, with their own twisted morality, the child murderer is the lowest level that a man can get. So, put this on film depends on how you will work to get a good result. In serie Alcatraz, episode 3 (Kit Nelson), shows a hunting for a child killer, however, everything is done so impeccable, nothing is explicit, all is indirectly, but you feel fear, anger and all the emotions every development of the episode. It is a good example of how treating a serious subject with seriously.

Leon Reaper

a child that kills would be awesome though...may do that in the future...no i havent but i will now :P x

Leon Reaper

what about the murderers robert thompson and jon venables? they were both only ten when they killed!

Leon Reaper

adult who kills children jacqueline...sorry :S

Leon Reaper

@karen yeah i see what you mean, I'm not going to go all gorey or anything. more like use the suspense and fear of what is happening whilst the camera is not on the actually characters themselves. In a PSYCHO kind of filming if you know what i mean? :)

Leon Reaper

actual*

Karen Keslen

@Leon I understand what you mean. Filming like a psycho will be great, because will more powerful the suspense and fear of audience, this sounds good.

Leon Reaper

thanks Karen, your lovely ;) x

Karen Keslen

You're welcome.

Chuck Dudley

Sounds like you're thinking like a producer with regards to the kind of audience you want to target. As a writer/director you're thinking what kind of tone you want to convey; suspense, horror, thriller... At some point the ARTIST inside will have to make a decision and create what feels right to YOU. From there all things will follow. Good luck Leon!

Leon Reaper

Thanks Chuck! :D i hope i get some notoriety with the scripts that i do and produce. so then i can travel and see you lot of the indie film industry (international-wise) and watch you guys work :P I like learning about aspects of the film-making process

Leon Reaper

the guy who is the child killer, acts like an everyday guy. smiling and talks to everyone but behind closed doors he changes, his true self shows and he keeps the young victims captive. one scene is where he comes back home after a days work. he is outside the room and by the side of the doorway hanging on a wall is a whip that he leaves there, he picks it up and steps inside the room....then he says 'daddys home now' then slams the door behind him and as the camera spans away all you hear is the cracking of the whip and the child screaming. not graphic in the slightest but you know whats happening.

Leon Reaper

Even i would feel fear watching it and i wrote the bloody thing haha

Leon Reaper

sadly though it is something that happens :(....

Leon Reaper

well he keeps a victim captive, other 1s he kills.

Noel Noel

You have to follow your gut and stay true to your story, whether fictional or based on true events. Nothing gratuitous or cheap. Just be honest. Truth be told, when I'm watching a film, and the director kills a child, animal, or elderly person...and depicts it on the screen...especially violently, I know that I'm in for a treat because the director as storyteller isn't pulling punches!

Leon Reaper

:D Awesome advice thank you Noel, im grateful

Edwin Adrian Nieves

I do believe there is a sensitivity to those kinds of images, but in the end, you just have to use all that is necessary to express the ideas and emotions you are trying to convey. Necessary does not mean going all out, however. It means knowing which visual and sound cues do justice to what you are intending to achieve. I feel that concept of "the necessary" will lead you to the right result.

Leon Reaper

thanks for the advice, (psycho + a film taboo) ooooh sounds fun!

Chuck Dudley

"Carma, uses her late sister's diary to avenge her death" Bryan Carrier -- I really like that premise! You definitely have a HOOK.

Leon Reaper

im glad I got interest in my post ^_^

Leon Reaper

sounds interesting, i bet your script has loads of suspense!, you dont get many films nowadays that do, its all ''in your face!''

Leon Reaper

I disagree, what if its done off-screen? in a psycho style. I think if its a child it will terrify adults more knowing that it COULD happen and BECAUSE they are defenseless. Adds to the realism of it as it is possible for a incident of any kid could be murdered in this kind of event,which is FACT

Leon Reaper

i feel that people need awareness of what happens in the world around them though, there's movies where peoples intestines are ripped out and limp being cut off and a film i want to do, is going to be done in a no detail way but doing something truthful. I don't get society -__- its like people live in a bubble and think they are invincible to all horrors of true life >__>

Angela Andrson

Wow! My husband and I were just throwing around an idea similar to this. If you want to collaborate or need some help, shoot me a message.

Leon Reaper

oh i dont mind criticism :) i like your honest

Leon Reaper

honesty

Leon Reaper

Thanks Angela :)

Leon Reaper

mines very different, it also has a reference to jack the ripper in it and its got danger in all directions not just by the killer

Don Thomas

Child serial killer. Now that would be an interesting movie. Not following established societal rules on morality or what is taboo or not is what a risk taker would do early on, and what a strategist would do in the right place and right time possibly years later when their career was more established. In America the idealized view of what America is for most 90 to 2 in age would be the Puritans. Puritans had a pretty bad reputation for being uptight in Europe way back in the day. A lot of time has passed and now Europe and other countries all over the world look at us an occasionally do a facepalm about us using the Puritans as a base model for such things. No Adultery ever! Not quite bad touch, but if you do it, if you commit adultery for whatever reason,somewhere along the way your want of SEX was involved. The Horror! Might not scare you even a little bit. Terrified the crap out of the Puritans. Good thing is worldwide were okay. Facepalm will only last so long. Can't deny having Puritans as a role model seems to have worked out fairly well for us. Good for us, we get all that we are. And if you ever personally desire to go to the country of Unlimited Adultery, go right ahead. Enjoy yourself. Everybody needs an occasional vacation to help keep them motivated. But as an American I am disgusted you would ever consider traveling to such a place. The name itself just creeps me out. "Country of Unlimited Adultery"? Just makes me want to take a shower and maybe go to Catholic Confessional. ...And I am not even Catholic. The Horror!

Leon Reaper

haha its true, things change.peoples ears and understanding have gotten better over the years

Stephen Viens

There's always THE BAD SEED from 1956.. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048977/

Leon Reaper

that movie pushed some boundaries! :P love how people respond to this film! :D

Justin Kapr

I think if you start thinking about how others will think of your film, you've already lost. Do whatever it is you want to do without remorse for your audience. Negative criticism is still good criticism. It's when you have no influence on someone that you should be truly worried.

Don Thomas

True Jacqueline, but at least the good thing is there are plenty of voluntarily overly malnourished young female actresses out there who are perfectly willing and eager to play as young as the feature film requires. Even if it includes tons of highly violent footage of the sexual and non-sexual kind. Too bad that chick from Zathura: A Space Adventure became so mega famous. She could have had a career in length and duration as a female actress which was comparable to the one Gabby Hayes had. Could have easily pulled off 12-17 years old for decades, maybe even younger with special effects and make up. And she wouldn't even have had to take her false teeth out when the cameras was rolling.

Storenzo Dom

Try getting an adult that looks like a child to create the graphic scenes without actually involving a child. I remember the effects "The Exorcist" had on Linda Blair.. I just think that in a world thats become soooo open to soooo many things, the media & society still looks to find a subject to pick on to relieve themselve's from their own demons. So my opinion is go for it cause you have a right to write what you choose and no matter what you do, someone will always have something to say about it!

Stacey Chehardy

If someone posted about a movie where adults watch children brutally slaughtering other children as sport - I think it would receive negative comments...But look at the widely popular Hunger Games.

Leon Reaper

True what i want to do is do it in a offscreen way, where the audience arent too repulsed by the images by are repulsed to the fact that all these acts have taken place and leaving their minds to wonder what exactly has happened to the victims. if i go all out slaughter then there will be valuable viewers that will be disgusted and that will leave a major loss, marketing -wise. Terror of the unknown and unseen you know? the way hitchcock did but Obviously abit more graphic due to the change of perspective and tolerance of modern day

Leon Reaper

but are repulsed*

Leonard Benedetto

I don't think any subject is taboo for film but of course how you handle the material is the true test. murder of children is an ugly subject so you must avoid sensationalizing it. Take a look at the classic movie "M" and see how they portrayed the murders - or Citizen X.

Stacey Chehardy

Leon, I understand you are wanting to film it offscreen, Hitchcokian style, my point was that who would have thought such an atrocious subject as children slaughtering children for the sport of adult entertainment would be so popular - what type of comments would it have elicited here? What is the actual focus of your movie? Is it that children are being murdered or is the focus more on the murderer and his life? Are you going to have murder after murder for the sake of having murders, say as in the slasher type movies, or is your movie going to be more focused on the hellish life of the murderer?

Leon Reaper

that M film got 100% positive rating on the Rotten tomatoes website :P

Stacey Chehardy

@Leonard B - we are on the same page at the same time

Leon Reaper

i will post a brief plot on the film im doing, it revolves around many stories inbedded into it. :)

Leon Reaper

ts called REFORMED and it starts out that a child serial killer is on the loose, he kills them,sometimes kidnaps them and tortures them. when he abducts the victims(due to him having a special liking to certains 1s) he covers his tracks and the police are left clueless. So they end up recruiting a criminal murderer and ''reforming'' him to help catch the killer and both him and a police detective go on a search for the killer, through crime scenes etc but it will also show the female detective scared of the guy(the criminal) and shows her struggle to feel safe whilst on the case and also the criminals restrained on doing bad and doing good for a change.....What do you think?

Leon Reaper

restraint*

Leon Reaper

good,bad?...

Leon Reaper

oh it will have empathy on both sides :) im going to put alot of detail into the script. references to jack the ripper,drugs, the subject of abuse and the criminal mind, im researching now as a matter of fact :P x

Leon Reaper

im looking at neuroscience at the moment lmao

Anthony Marotta

I don't think that this is necessarily a taboo topic. If you look back at the silent film era, a time that had much more rigid rules regarding film, and even regarding how a society is viewed. Like Leonard B said, M was of the same style. And it was a near-perfect movie. My suggestion is to study that film and engage yourself in how Fritz Lang approaches the story.

Leon Reaper

have you guys ever seen Clockwork orange? something like that with the rehabilitation bit :)

Leon Reaper

will do Anthony :) thanks

Leon Reaper

yeah kevin bacons film role as a child molester was 'The Woodsman'

Stacey Chehardy

@Leon - that's one of my desert island movies!

Leon Reaper

awesome! Taboo + psycho style + clockwork orange type of plot, need to continue writing i suppose :P

Chad Glass

Check out: "Woman in Black" -the woman killer kills children. "Orphan" -the killer is a "child" killing children. "The Bad Seed" the killer is a child killing people. "The Omen" -the killer is a child killing people. "Children of the Corn" -the killers are children killing people. Children are both the killers and are killed in horror films. Make yours!

David L Tamarin

It is a taboo and in terms of short stories, most markets that promote so-called extreme horror will have a no violence against children rule, even Amazon Kindle would not publish me for that reason. Yet I can get the same lurid violence and rape and incest on the tv news which is watched by more than just me. There is an audience for it, you just have to get around those seeking to suppress the truth of this world. I'm definitely interested in the film, good luck!

Leon Reaper

you going to make the film William? :)

Leon Reaper

WOW! That's some far out shit! :P I bow to you sir! :D Terror's your middle name i guess lol

Leon Reaper

excuse my french :S lol

J. Vollenweider

Leon, just go for it! Some of the best horror films involve children (The Shining, Poltergeist, etc).

Leonard Benedetto

ok, to pipe in with my two cents. children of the corn is a horrible movie. sure it was a financial success considering all the sequels, but it still is a bad movie. the bad seed is incredibly campy; how many of you know the original ending which was changed for the film. in the movie, the mother gives her daughter an overdose of pills and then tries to shoot herself. both survive and the finale shows the daughter going to the pier to retrieve the medal she killed for only to be killed herself when struck by lightning. the original play ends quite differently. the mother dies and the daughter survives to kill again.

Leonard Benedetto

regarding W Ward's story - to say that is far out sh*t is an understatement. if I was given that 'logline', I don't think I would want to read or see it because there doesn't seem to be anything more to it then just pushing the boundaries. reminds me of 'A Serbian Film'. Some critics whom I respect said that it was an important film which they were glad to have seen, but they never would want to see it again. I have yet to bring myself to see it - unsure if I could stomach it.

Chad Glass

Most horror films I've seen are bad. Horror is perhaps the dominion of the worst films ever made. But the subject matter of children doing the killing or being killed embodies my above reply. There is nothing new about using children in horror films. In my opinion, children dying or killing in the horror genre isn't taboo at all as it has been explored in many films though the decades, good or bad. The question is: will YOUR film that you make be bad or good?

Chad Glass

To add, some of the best horror films are more psychological in nature with a minimum of blood and hacking to death onscreen. Gratuitous violence often replaces imagination and story. Anyone can think of something sickening to view.

Stacey Chehardy

How did this conversation gets so derailed? I thought Leon's premise was a man who kills children (we don't see him do it - Hitchcock style) - and it is actually a psycho-thriller. When did it become children dong the murder and a horror story?

Leon Reaper

you know what, writing a script of a child killer is quite disturbing when you have to write the dialogue, as much as people praise actors all the time, the real founder of the character is the writer and its very shocking where a writer has to dwell into to make a script...dont you think?

Leonard Benedetto

I LOVED the first Saw and thought it was remarkably tame and totally now what I expected. I think it was a brilliant script and movie which was ruined by the lame franchise. I really didn't like Hostel, thinking it was too obsessed with the gore (torture porn). there were elements in the story I liked but have to admit I fast forwarded through most of the movie. I love horror movies but find the majority fail because instead of scaring the audience, they merely 'shock' and surprise. one of my favorite horror films is the first Hellraiser (another great film, ruined by its franchise). True horror gets inside the viewer's head, allowing their imagination to imagine the worst. My favorite line in that movie was 'We'll tear your soul apart'. This is a great line because it's unclear what it means but allows the viewer to come up with their own terror.

Chad Glass

This is a real life child killer story that I lived among during childhood: http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2010/atlanta.child.murders/

Leon Reaper

fucking hell man :( that's sad....20 children....

Chad Glass

Yes. For a time, almost every other day a child was found dead. It sent Atlanta into an eerie state of paranoia as the killer was elusive and unseen. The case is world renown.

Leon Reaper

thanks for the info though chad, i hope my film when i do it will atleast gain awareness of the horrors such as that

Chad Glass

My pleasure. Were I to do a missing child/murdered children horror film I would involve elements of true life cases and then take them into fantasy. Here is another American missing child story that has haunted society for decades: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVjkAakTKLc

Chad Glass

Here is a scene from Mystic River: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BhoAlF0xpg

Chad Glass

I suggest you watch this film. It's very brutal and raw and involves a scene where a family is murdered on video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSoqENueT2Y

Leon Reaper

these are quite brutal, but its what actually happens in the world.

Leon Reaper

you wouldnt wanna know what scene im writing in my script -__- I gotta go to a dark place of my imagination atm

Leon Reaper

nothing graphic, just terrifying to imagine >__>

Keverne Eason Mapp

If you have children,then you'll know that everyday you worry about their well being.....there are already enough cases of horrific things that happen to kids,REAL things,they're exposed to many dangers.....adding a serial killer is just over the top sensationalism,kids are the first to die in war,famine,conflict and family disputes......c'mon!.....use your imagination a little better,choose a Poodle killer....not children!!! Don't care if we don't see anything explicit,kids have a hard time already!

Leon Reaper

you do realize that films are fake right?.....

Curtis James Coffey

It is taboo, and a lot of people won't touch it, but I think if done right, it is incredibly effective and scary. I wrote a horror script that centered around children and I got rave reviews about how scary it was. It's been optioned, though unfortunately it had to be toned down quite a bit, because it really takes guts to take on a project involving anything scary or violent towards children.

Leon Reaper

i see famine on the t.v all the time man, Africa appeals on adverts.with upsetting images, but im doing something that lies just outside of peoples front door. if i do this maybe it will boost some more awareness of it and quite possibly save a life due to its message, ya never know! kids do have a hard time i agree with you, but its the people knowing they cant support them that are selfish too

Leon Reaper

people as in parents.

Leon Reaper

(my opinion)

Devorah Lynne Dishington

I believe 'Lovely Bones' would be a good example to follow, as it is along a similar subject matter. I hope this helps. >^.,.^< http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2554232/

Leon Reaper

oh i know that film, yeah kind of, but mines on a more frightening scale and has a clockwork orange feel to it.

Leon Reaper

i never follow by example, if i did that then there wouldn't be any originality.

Leonard Benedetto

regarding A Clockwork Orange, although there were violent and disturbing images, one must remember the satiric tone Kubrick took. Ultimately it was a story about society's definition of 'good' and its efforts to achieve it. I always heard that the book was written by Burgess in response to a real life home invasion where his wife was attacked and raped. He wrote the book as a release of his anger over the attack.

Devorah Lynne Dishington

Leon, I am not say to 'copy' anything . . . . gosh knows that there is WAY TOO MUCH of that in Hollywood!! But, you asked about it, and that was the closest movie on the subject that came to mind!! ORIGINALITY AT ALL COST!!! Bless ye!

Leon Reaper

oh ok thanks sweetheart x

Leon Reaper

i respect your opinion Julio :)

Leon Reaper

oh im not going to a studio, im going indie style. im not giving my script to any studio thats for sure >__>

Leon Reaper

I'm not gunna let them get any of the credit lol

David L Tamarin

@leon As an actor I would love to be involved in such a project. There is a film called The Gateway Meat if you google "100 most brutal and sick and violent films" almost all lists will have The Gateway Meat, usually in top 25. I helped write it and get briutally tortured to death in it. I had duct tape all over my face for like 12 hours. People said we couldn't make a truly sick film for a few thousand dollars we did it. What we are making now will get us in the top ten. I have been tortured to death onscreen many times and willing to do anything for the right role. I will soon annnounce indiegogo campaign. Godd luck and let me know if you need help I am a writer, actor, proucer, entertainment attorney and I do publicity and public relations campaigns. Dltamarin@hotmail.com. Thanks!

Sean Wickett

Hey I just joined! HI. Leon, count parents out of your audience. I can tell you truthfully that this material is not entertainment in anyway. Even if it's dressed up as a message film. I'm a father of two and the last thing I want to see is a film that pits children against each other in a duel to the death. I had a hard time with Hunger Games, and believe it or not Looper. To qualify myself I can say I've always loved a good horror film from the time I could go to video stores and rent something on my own. But now that I'm a parent my world view has changed. Believe me, once a parent, THE VERY LAST THING YOU ARE IS UNAWARE OF ANY CHILD'S SUFFERING. Anywhere. One thing that bothers me about modern films is the need to 'one up' previous films on their shock value. Now here we are making children the villains of our movies and therefore justifying the need to kill them. As this is what Hollywood has conditioned us to believe must happen to those who betray our protagonists or kill innocents within the narrative. I won't call your idea sick but maybe ignorant. Please don't take offense to this, I'm not insulting you. I just want to give you an opinion that hasn't been put forth in this thread yet. I'm not saying don't make your film either. There is room for an infinite number of genres and types of film. I won't ever be into torture porn but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be made. If you pursue this idea further (and there's no reason you shouldn't) try to approach it from a different angle. Forget parents as an audience. Even so, you should talk to parents about what their fears are with regards to their kids. Not from a "if there was a pedofile that moved into your neighbour hood how would you feel" angle but some of the everyday fears that no one talks about. I'll give you an example; a personal experience. When my first child was born I laid in the hospital bed next to my sleeping wife. My eyes were fixed on the tiny new person sleeping, swaddled, in the sleeper next to the bed. One little sound and I was on my feet making sure they were still breathing, that everything was ok. I didn't sleep much the first night. I wasn't prepared for that fear to stay with me. I'm not a fearful person, at all. But I fear for my child in ways I never thought I would. The continual dread that something might take my child from this world will be with me until the day I die. It's the same for any parent, even the parents of the children you see on tv, starving in Africa. It's something you don't FULLY understand until you have kids. Seriously. Before I had kids I understood only in concept what it might be like to be a parent. People without kids only see the surface interaction between parent and child and make their judgements. There isn't the true understanding of the relationship or how a parent feels toward the person they've brought into this world and has to teach them EVERYTHING until the child is somewhat autonomous. As the child grows, the fear may diminish but it never leaves. Ever. Try for some of that understanding in your script. Get the audience to feel what it must be like to be a parent. Don't sensationalize the fact that it's a Serial Killer Movie because, truly, those are boring. That genre was driven into the ground after Se7en. If you want to get to the heart of fear in your story, it should be primal and relatable. Don't worry about whether it's showing or implying the violence because that's just semantics. Get the audience to feel like a parent then ratchet up the tension and the rest will take care of itself. Listen to Keverne. We all realize films are fake. Does your idea have any entertainment value beyond shock? Does the theme have merit or is it scary just for the sake of it? Bringing truth to the audience is not showing them that child murderers do horrible things. We know that. (I wept at a Christmas Party when I heard about the Connecticut shootings.) It would be too 'on the nose'. Ok, I've gone on far too long. Sorry for the rant. One final thought: if you want to be provocative introduce the element of forgiveness to your story. Nothing divides an audience faster.

Leon Reaper

thanks david, yeah that sounds awesome man. i will see what roles and see if i can get a budget uptogether, hopefully i can so i can afford overseas talent. would you be so kind as to help spread the word once my campaigning starts for it? i will do the same for yours :D

Leon Reaper

no problem sean, sorry i was just wanting to do this for an awareness kind of thing. i respect how something like this would effect a parent so thats why im not going to go the gore way because even i would be disturbed with myself by it. I have always wanted to work with kids and i used to look after a kid that had autism. I'm not un-sentimental.

Leon Reaper

but i will expect parents not wanting to watch it so i respect your decision and theirs too but i hope the parents that don't take care of their kids get to so they realize how dangerous and how much you gotta care for your kid when they are out.

Leon Reaper

what i want to do is show the evils of the world,bereavement,show that a person can have two sides to their personality and hide within society,empathy, shock and hopelessness and forgiveness(not on the killers side though)

Leonard Benedetto

Not every movie is going to be for every audience. Just because some may find a subject matter distasteful is no reason not to make it. I'm still surprise Silence of the Lambs reached such a large audience considering the subject matter, but that goes more to the brilliance of the filmmakers.

Leon Reaper

i think i have upset sean :S

Chad Glass

Some are reacting as if children have never been seen killed, or doing the killing, in the movies before. Children have killed children in stories and in movies before. Adults have killed children in movies before. It is not new. The question is how will this serve your story and how are you to depict the murders? The sky is the limit. Here is a classic children killing children story: http://lordoftheflies.org/

Chad Glass

another very popular kids killing kids film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-T7yPJVvXw

Stacey Chehardy

Is this one of the longest streams on Stage32? 135 comments?

Leon Reaper

@stacey i hope so,i find the comments interesting tbh

Leon Reaper

:P

Stacey Chehardy

@Chad - don't some speculate that this film was ripped off to make Hunger Games?

Leon Reaper

i wondered that, did you like the hunger games film stacey? I havent seen it yet but i know what its about

Stacey Chehardy

Leon, do you find varying views from your country than America?

Chad Glass

Stacey, I believe so. Lots of films in Hollywood rip off foreign films.

Stacey Chehardy

@Leon, I commented on the hunger games earlier today in your post - it quite disturbed me that adults would find sport in watching children slaughter children. But if I am understanding your theme, you have a (normal - seeming) man who murders and tortures children b/c of his own twisted and sick childhood experiences...right? That is different than just killing kids for the sport - your protagonist has a 'motive' and 'drive'...right?

Sean Wickett

@leon hey man, I didn't want to sound like I was coming down on you. I'm not! I would just encourage you to really think outside the box on this one due to it's very sensitive nature. And I would put to you the question "Why not?" regarding forgiveness towards the killer (if I'm interpreting what you wrote correctly). if this person is a serial killer, preying on children, no less, then this person was/is someone's victim. that would create some complexity in that character. the evils of the world is a given, we all know it's there. but if a theme of your story was to do with parents and children, the good and bad of it, how bad parents can create kids who grow to be bad adults or even the opposite, good parents raise bad kids, could create an interesting tension. especially with the cyclical nature of society: grow up, have kids. the world is shades of gray and everyone is someone's victim or persecutor. @leonard totally in agreement with you.

Leon Reaper

yes, he likes to murder for fun and sexual gratification and the ones he likes and keeps(for torture) are for those plus he likes to destroy their innocence then when hes done he gets rid of them and moves onto the next, disgusting i know but it exists.

Leon Reaper

yeah i could do that sean, like him being abused by a parent and possible messed his up so he thinks he can do the same and also feels anger/revenge that he himself when he had his innocence it was taken away?

Sean Wickett

@stacey now that's sick. @leon not upset! honest! :)

Stacey Chehardy

@Sean.... yes you are right!!! they are marketing 'souvenirs' of child serial killers... demented! but... there must be a market??? sooooo, maybe Leon's work will fit the macabre? Speaking of which, has anyone seen the ads for the new series on AMC - Freakshow? wow....

Michael Stephen Roberts

I think the art of presentation to be everything. Like that movie where they were lost in the woods surrounded by some kind of witchcraft. Nothing really ever happened yet it was quite the suspense thriller. Or those old flics by Alfred Hitchcock. I think your subject matter is both sensitive and unnerving to many people simply because it happens more often than we would like to discuss. But if you can find the fine line where innocence is preyed upon by everyday, "normal", people, evil reveals itself. Much like the young doctor in american horror story, bloody face. Good luck.

Chad Glass

Well-said, Michael.

Christopher Owens

The sensitivity in most of the US has skyrocketed since all these school shootings have occurred. But to me personally, that's more reason for you to explore such a "touchy" topic. Gives viewers who really wanna see a good movie, that feeling of understanding. Which helps strike more fear into hearts.

Stewart Skelton

The Bad Seed

Dustin Bowcott

Most people wouldn't like to see or even think kids are getting hurt. I wouldn't watch it and if I ever wrote about a kid getting hurt I would do the same as you. it happens, but it is minimalised. I seriously couldn't write it myself as I would never want to get into a child-killer's head, aside from with a bullet of course.

Keverne Eason Mapp

I've read through all of these comments.......and have finally come to the conclusion that you should make a film about a cooking show!....yes! a cooking show! With all the chopping,hacking,ripping,slicing,roasting,stabbing,boiling and preparation,the various tastes,what has been already consumed,what might 'Go Down Well',how to present the final dish,how little to spend by getting your ingredients from the GUTTER,(reference to facts),why some people,(Parents),won't eat it,how your experience,(An autistic kid),will be valuable............it really does sound like a cooking program that can be seen on a Monday afternoon for retired people who haven't had the chance to cook for years................! I know,I'm not being serious,because after reading all of the 155 comments,I just realized that your idea is not really about making a film at all.....it's about dealing with where the sexually dominated narcissistic pervert pitches over the cliffs of religious morality to impose his masturbatory compulsive fetish on an indifferent society in order to impose a 'Catch Me if You Can' mad dash through time using the hyped up media and hordes of dogs foaming at the mouth,straining on chromed chains that are yanking on the muscular arms of policemen who wear 200 dollar Raybans.......finally to be caught sat in the sitting room of his Grandmother's house knitting little pink rabbits.......then dragged away to be studied by hundreds of shrinks who'll scratch their balding heads for decades trying to phathom out the how,why and what for?........just like the 'Sauce Bearnaise Syndrome'..........never heard of that? THE SAUCE BEARNAISE SYNDROME: "Being sickened by the taste, smell or even thought of a particular food or drink because, on a previous occasion you became ill shortly after consuming it. Your mind has made a connection between the food/drink and the illness although it was purely coincidental, and the food/drink item actually was not the cause of the illness" So to conclude; I suppose the words 'Children' and 'Killer' were the ingredients that are triggering an inevitable urge to vomit......even if your sauce tastes nice for others,excuse me whilst I just step outside and pebbledash the door of your car!

James Holzrichter

It has been done before as fiction and it happens in real life. One of the most popular shows on Showtime is Dexter, he was not a child but still a serial killer and the star of the show. That show was a bit graphic and I myself can't watch it without wanting to grab the main character and hang him, (not the actor the character). All that being said if you do decide to write and make it some people will like the movie and get the message and others will scream bloody murder,(no pun intended, ok maybe a little pun). People also thought it was impossible for women to be serial killers. They also thought the world was flat. I would not be offended at what I am seeing but I would most certainly have some emotions toward the serial killer and hope he got caught. :) Luck!

Matthew Taylor

i wouldnt worry to much .. controversy sells and anything involving kids gets attention.. look at how the end of stephen king's the mist ended.. all in all people will always find stuff to bitcch about no matter what your imagery is. be true to yourself and your art.

Marion Renk-Rosenthal

I agree with Matthew, be true to your art. If you start worrying about all the political correctness you will never be able to make a film.

Malcolm X. Johnson

Your first obligation is to the story. Stay true to that and everything else falls into place. I think where it becomes an issue is when people do things for shock value. They attempt to force the story instead of allowing it to grow organically. That being said, you should be very prejudicial to whom you share your ideas and works with. Never allow someone to talk you out of your vision. DO YOU!

Leon Reaper

Thanks Sam, its not like i want to produce it straight out there to make a point. i actually want people to see it and see what i did and say''yes this stuff happens'' and also the movie has a reformed criminal helping out. giving the message of (some people can change and about forgiveness).its my Art for awareness aswell, im also included into the script that fact that this child-murderer is someone sweet and nice, nobody would expect he would do it. then show the transformation behind closed doors, to explore in the mind of a evil killer that has a split personality. What i want to do also, is raise awareness of what could happen in everyday life and for once have the audience express their feelings against a horrible creature that will be portrayed, but my Art in this script is to show how the child-killers mind works.There wont be decapitations but you will see example: girl locked up in a cellar,girl being whipped by hideous man(not viewable whatsoever) GET THE AUDIENCE PSYCHOLOGICALLY! :D!!!!

Leon Reaper

get them to want the killer to be caught! get them to be on the edge of their seat desperately hoping the killer gets caught and the girl gets saved by the killer tyrant etc!!

Leon Reaper

No, unlike lovely bones its not about just one young girl

Leon Reaper

child-killers dont stop what they do. unfortunately..

Leon Reaper

Mind you Stephen Kings ''IT'' also was praised

Leon Reaper

anyway all i hope for is a child that will go that extra mile to act with that willingness in a subject that is taboo.....

Leon Reaper

__> is it possible?

Leon Reaper

__> may be hard...

Leonard Benedetto

RE: "IT", the kids were terrorized by the clown, but they weren't killed until they were adults. One thing that I find troublesome in your posts Leon is your mentioning that the kidnapped child will be tortured. Killing is one thing, but torture seems extreme and probably unnecessary. You really have to come up with a good reason to have the child tortured and the mental sickness of the torturer is not enough of a reason. Being kidnapped is torture enough - any further infliction of pain might be crossing the line. look at 'Silence of the Lambs' - when the senator's daughter was kidnapped by 'Buffalo Bill', it was horrendous enough to see the conditions she was forced to live under. Any further infliction of torture would have been overkill

Chad Glass

Kids dying can be done to great effect if they're teens who die in cartoonish ways, such as in the series "Final Destination." In this kind of film the movie is akin to going to a "fun house"on a thrill ride as the film(s) do not take themselves seriously. These are actually quasi-action films that happen to have gratuitous death by some supernatural force.

Leon Reaper

it wont be seen leonard -___- its all psychologically done...not visibly

Leon Reaper

i would never film something like that visibly, im not that sick.

Leon Reaper

all the material will be done for the audience to - guess,- presume and of the use of their imagination.

Leon Reaper

Im going to dive into the mind of the killer, its not a relentless shock horror

Chad Glass

this is a great film where kids die; pure art: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYu0cb6ONbs

Chad Glass

another excellent art film where the whole point is to see kids die: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yr0mcWY0YBU

Leon Reaper

I will do this right, to entertain peoples heads but not offending them in any visible way. get inside and send the chills go up their spine. nothing more, nothing less. visibility will be on par with the movie (The children) hardly any but the 'not knowing whats happening behind that closed door' effect and putting that to its fullest potential.

Leon Reaper

Now that movie is definitely NOT what i am aiming for!

Leon Reaper

-__- so what your saying is i should give up doing anything about a killer of children(even though freddy krueger was one)

Leon Reaper

fine, lets live in denial >__>

Chad Glass

Is that directed at me, the question? Answer, no. I'm all for it thus my enthused posts and examples. It's not a taboo subject at all as it has been done millions of times in various ways.

Leonard Benedetto

Freddy Krueger killed teenagers - not children -- BIG difference

Leon Reaper

Exactly.have you seen a film Called Baby Blues? its about a mother who kills her kids when she suffers from post natal depression.

Stacey Chehardy

In the scene where the guy grabs the whip off the wall and walks into the room.. i think the door shutting behind him is enough fodder for the brain, we don't need to actually hear it whip or child scream - we 'hear' it in our head

Leon Reaper

before he got burned, in freddy vs jason you see a little girl with no eyes in the main characters dream

Leon Reaper

yeah i will probably leave that bit out now you come to mention it

Leon Reaper

i hope this subject discussion gets to 200 comments

Keverne Eason Mapp

Isn't that the real reason you asked the question in the first place......with no intention to make a film at all?

Chad Glass

This was a horrific event in America, Andrea Yates: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjJuN9Qfr0I

Chad Glass

When I first saw this it disturbed the hell out of me above all other stories of children with disorders: Child of Rage The FULL Documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2-Re_Fl_L4

Keverne Eason Mapp

Why not go to 300 and make a film about all these comments,that sounds more interesting and creative to me!

Keverne Eason Mapp

Isn't the recent tragic affair in the USA enough blood curling facts for you all........or is it a drug to see kids sick or tortured and abused.....were you abused ever,I'm sure you weren't,otherwise you'd be making a film about butterflies and ants...hehe!

Leon Reaper

im doing the script now as we speak keverne -__-

Leon Reaper

what happened is sickening but i wasnt doing this film in any recordance to the events. I dont like remembering TRUE horrific events. im just doing a movie on the criminal mind majority-wise, the children bit is only a small part of the film but relevant to how evil some people can be and under the nose of modern society...

Leon Reaper

whats so wrong about that?, its not graphic in any way. All material in this will instigated(let the audience use their gut-feeling. Thats not wrong! Horror movies are meant to do that!

Leon Reaper

and no keverne if you look at my display pic, you kinda get what type of genre im interested in...

Leon Reaper

@Ben Thanks man, the most frightening thing will be how the killer behaves. what arouses him, what type of mindset he's in, what kind of things he like to do(non-graphically but instigated) THAT! will grab the audience.

Keverne Eason Mapp

You mean over 200 comments later and your script is still not finished.....you need to work under more pressure,like a strange knock on the door,shadows of footsteps under the door,a note is pushed under the door........you open the note and it reads.....;"If this script is not done by tomorrow morning,I'm leaving this discussion group and selling the idea to the highest bidder!",you dash out into the hallway but there's no-one,just a drop of blood slightly smeared on the marble tiles........so now you'll have to finish your script tonight my friend,otherwise tomorrow it'll be too late!

Leon Reaper

excuse me keverne, unlike you i research into my scripts

Leon Reaper

this discussion is only 2 days old!!!

Leon Reaper

Not even the Best writer in the world writes a script in 2 days!!! unless its cliche infested

Leon Reaper

it will be finished by end of this month

Leon Reaper

now excuse me but i gotta look up about electro shock therapy -__-

Keverne Eason Mapp

I don't write scripts,I'm a storyboarder and Art Director,so my research is purely visual.....pictures tell a thousand words!

Stacey Chehardy

i thought keverne's comment was quite clever! LOL and pardon me, Leon, there ARE some screenwriters that can write in a day. I wrote mine in one day....now granted I have done about 15 rewrites and polishes, but the original story is still there. I let the characters write it, they tell me who they are and what they do - much easier than me forcing them to do what I want them to do...

Keverne Eason Mapp

Quite right Stacey,a quick outline sketch in terms of structure doesn't take that long,this way you can protect it with a simple copywright,then iron out the details.Matrix was sold on 6 storyboards and a one page synopsis.Anyway,I suppose it's time for me to leave this discussion,I've seen enough......or rather nothing yet!

Leon Reaper

well sorry,but i have to cover alot of research in mine.

Leon Reaper

you dont know shit about scriptwriting keverne so your opinion is invalid

Leon Reaper

James cameron spent 6 months doing the script for titanic

Leon Reaper

(I) am researching about (psychology,biology,information on crime scenes,electroshock therapy,criminals,information on jack the ripper,case files and history)

Alexander D Carney

I don't think it's taboo but it's hard to do. Look at the movie "The Bad Seed" based on a Broadway play of the same name to see how this difficult subject was treated in the past.

Leon Reaper

will i be able to get to recruit a child actor for a role in this?.....thats my only problem....

Keverne Eason Mapp

Well said Samuel,I totally agree with all tht you've just written,as I've worked with prisoners both women and men,people who have chopped up their spouses,women that have killed their kids and put them in the freezer,men that have tortured women,children and other men.........so up close,a criminal is not at all what cinema depicts,not at all. So do your ground work Leon,(avoid insulting my intellectual capacitieson script writing like a child stamping his foot in a supermarket because he wants his mummy to allow him to play on the toy car ride),and know one thing,a storyboarder and roughman has to read the whole script several times before he can get the root elements to visualize,so I know a good script when I see one,I work with talented script writers and it's a very difficult challenge to get out on paper,just like drawing a storyboard or illustrating a scene. My initial reaction to your question about if an audience is ready for this kind of stuff,was about kids,children,you know,the ones that'll be running the country and deciding whether you'll get your pension or not......the ones in our society that need protection and TLC....but now I realize that your whole project is quite immature and childlike immitation of what you seemingly admire,which boils down to cheap halloween masks and purple cell phones.....research as much as you want,but I don't get the impression that at the end of the month your script will even have scratched the surface of what goes on inside a criminal's head,not even a petty thief at that.........Samuel has given you a very important guidline on where not to tread,but I suppose you're out to get a 300 comment discussion more than write a stimulating script about something that's been done over and over again,and I dare say,by the best. .....I've been trying to get out of this discussion for the last day,but can't find the KILL SWITCH!

Michael Stephen Roberts

I think you guys are missing the point of script writing period. It's mostly for entertainment purposes, unless you are dong a documentary. So the question is how can a script writer incorporate the horrors of society while entertaining his audience. The purple phone and mask are eye catching; there is some value in that.

Leon Reaper

huh? where did the purple phone and mask come from? its not a slasher! its a psychological thriller!!!!! ffs! its not even graphic whatsoever! you wont see kids cut up. you only see the ''about to happen'' stuff and then the aftermath(in minimal fashion) not during -__-. and btw im going to be exploring how he interacts with people all around him, i will show how sick the character is, then also illustrate his past

Leon Reaper

fuck off keverne you have no idea what you are on about. films have trodden on this subject (carefully) im doing this head-on THATS THE DIFFERENCE but obviously your the master of films -__-

Leon Reaper

I going to show how the killer acts behind closed doors, what arouses him, what kind of temperament he has, his personality towards members of the public etc. I'm doing this detailed whatever you say

Leon Reaper

The characters do have a story in this ffs!

Leon Reaper

and keverne your stepping over the line, im just glad that my post has gotten alot of feedback and interesting views so shut the fuck up. dont fucking say about what YOU think i am doing.unless your outside my house peeping through the window. if your not, you know fuck all.

Leon Reaper

i write my script in segments start-middle-end. right now I'm righting the ending to it .

Leon Reaper

@Jacqueline oh that!! sorry i forget my display pic after awhile. whats so wrong with showing your creative side. if that's illegal, call 911. obviously the film industry isn't about creative individuals...twat!

Leon Reaper

not twat to you jacqueline, to keverne :S.

Parker Reeve

Great. Now you start name calling. Classy.

Leon Reaper

@Parker frustration >__>

Leon Reaper

he was taking bites out of me,talking about things irrelevant to the subject of the discussion. i call it self-defense. he stepped over the line by going on about my appearance and presuming.about me and what im doing

Leon Reaper

im sorry if my script isnt finished in 3/4 days. I try and be a perfectionist when i do things. shrug sue me

Leon Reaper

ok, when i feel love i like to run naked in cornfields....what about you?

Leon Reaper

lol joke

Brad Watts

sound good to me !

Keverne Eason Mapp

Well Samuel,you certainly have good advice here......100% in agreement. One very significant element to consider is that when someone is murdered,it affects all the family members,ripping their lives apart forever,then all the friends and close aquaintences are profoundly affected,again for life......so when you count up all the people that are emotionally wounded it climbs into the hundreds....now if someone is a serial killer,just counting all the people's lives he or she's affected makes a sad horde. Now examine the displaced sexual pervertions of a true warped mind,put it all into a child and you have something that's fiction,pure fantasy,as most kids that have taken another life have never done so through sexuallly displaced frustration,but by mimmicking elders,which gives us 'Copycat' offenders and not serious warped minds......and that's the hub of my distain for any film wishing to 'Entertain' audiences with such a morbid subject using children as a crowd puller. I'm really saddened by the fact that we're still glorifying killers and murderers,sadly this post is the proof that one guy pulls the trigger and the crowds rush in to goggle in awe! Leon has pulled a crowd.....now let's see what he's got to offer as real entertainment apart from a 300 strong comment figure! Better be good Leon,really good!

Leon Reaper

fine samuel> i will put it in other terms then, i will show on screen how one behaves to the best of my knowledge and research, better? 2nd point = Im expressing the danger of what is real life ok? Both the Human Centipede films are Far worse than this. 3rd point you gave: Im doing it in a CSI kinda way, not in a SAW kinda way. there will be blood but not gallons and gallons and no violence will be shown on screen towards the child actor in any way shape of form. unless you consider just being tied up too much for you?

Leon Reaper

fear of the unknown im going to use. make the audiences brain cause the fear to them and not with their eyes.

Leon Reaper

this film will be softened for the general public and also in the case of censorships

Roger Goldsmith

I think audiences are sensitive for obvious reasons . You just have to be careful and be aware of that. . It is a hard one I must confess but should not stop you if your reasons for making the film and going in that direction have some merit.

Chauncey Chester

there are examples like ...lets talk about kevin, let the right one in..etc..you should be fine

Roger Goldsmith

Sorry. Not a film a this stage I gather, a script. Well, the same comments apply I guess. I wrote a script entitled Blackberry Stains about a schoolteacher who was abusing a pupil who happened to be his son's best friend. It was dark and there was redemption but I had no qualms about writing it. A film of it got made and it won a Goldie award in 2011 in LA.

Leon Reaper

well that's quite shocking subject itself so that gives me abit of hope that my movie will be accepted :)

Harvey Jacobs

Think "Happiness" by Todd Solonz. A masurbator who made obscene phone calls and a pedophile who abused his son's best friend. I think the field is open.

Leon Reaper

0__0 now you put it like that,...i suppose it is

Leon Reaper

well to show you how much im going into detail, i have also created the character for the FBI agent....her names Sarah Abberline. descendant from frederick abberline. (a detective on the jack the ripper case)

Leon Reaper

mine also tells the story between the FBI agent and the criminal that is reformed, her having to look over her shoulder not knowing if he has reformed and the criminals conflict from his former self after rehabilitation... theres more than meets the eye in this samuel

Leon Reaper

....if you say so >__>

Chad Glass

What is the story being talked about here anyway? State the story in one sentence. If you cannot do that then you don't have story.

Leon Reaper

i guess there has to be someone negative all the time about a project.

Leon Reaper

sorry i got confused, after talking about CSI i got MI6 and FBI mixed up :S

Leon Reaper

I will show you, if i continue typing about it you will just reject it over and over again

Leon Reaper

fine, its not you im pissed off about, its that keverne guy who went too far a made comment on me as a person sorry but thats over-stepping it

Leon Reaper

your comments are fine. its just keverne PRESUMING im doing fuck all. i use this website for feedback and advice cus you lot got more experience than me so its my chance of learning in a way

Natalie Villa

Wow I think that audiences are sensitive. I think if you did the film tastefully, the powerful story will come through. I also think that it's all about your approach. Good Luck with your film!

Leon Reaper

Thank you Natalie xx

Leon Reaper

i understand

Don Thomas

I think you can do whatever the hell you want to do as long as you are thinking SYMPHONY. I don't care too much for Classical Music, but I also not a fan of pop music. Like Billy Joel said in the song the Entertainer " http://youtu.be/CYLMN2PSI3E

Leon Reaper

i tell you what though, researching into child killers and the acts they have done is not very nice work to do i have to say....>__>

Parker Reeve

Leon, you can defend yourself against personal attacks by rising above them and staying classy and not resorting to name calling. I agree, he stepped over the line. It’s to bad you then stepped over it with him. But that's MUCH harder to do, isn't it?

Don Thomas

That's your dream? Well, then like Conan said "To HELL with you!" Obviously you don't get it. SYMPHONY! Great films need GREAT screenwriters. Great screenwriters can write great screenplays. SYMPHONY'S only come from certain level writer and director. A director no matter how good can only do so much with your little pop song. What was the line in the above video: "But if I go cold, I won't get sold. I'll get put in the back In the discount rack, Like another can of beans." That's your dream? Chick that wrote the Twilight Books kicked your ass. SYMPHONY! Who here knows Morse code?

Leon Reaper

I get what you mean parker. i gotta keep a cool head

Leon Reaper

Eight big fingers standing up tall Two little ears to hear mummy's call One little nose that I can blow Ten little toes, all in a row Two short thumbs that wriggle up and down Two little feet to stand on the ground Hands to clap and eyes to see, Oh what fun, just to be me

Leon Reaper

(Dialogue of the Child-killer in my script, singing it as he sharpens his knife)

Don Thomas

Do you Leon? Do you really? What is Morse Code for S.O.S. ?

Leon Reaper

I dont know.....i have a telephone you see....

Don Thomas

Leon if you were on the Titanic manning the telegraph. Everybody dies. You don't know Morse Code. Not enough for S.O.S. Everybody includes you.

Don Thomas

Not just Jack but also naked Kate Winslet. Dead.

Don Thomas

Let's just hope Leon can figure it out before we get to the band who kept playing.

Leon Reaper

well seeing as i would be manning the telegraph, that would imply that im a sailor myself and for me to go out on sea i would require training, once after training is completed i would have gained knowledge in how to do so....

Don Thomas

Okay so you know that Morse Code is based on the principle of the simplest electrical communication possible. Electricity. So you are willing for all electricity to go away because you don't know Morse Code. Lazy ass writer.

Don Thomas

Okay we'll just wait here as more people in the Titanic movie besides the two lovers dies while Leon is figuring it out. Anyone else want to jump in here, or is Leon on his own except for me?

Leon Reaper

speak english riddler -__-

Don Thomas

Okay you got it? Still have not answered the question. What is Morse Code for S.O.S.

Leon Reaper

...---...

Don Thomas

In your film. Actor is as clueless as you about telegraphs. He is just beating to the beat of his favorite song, lets say Michael Jackson's song Beat It. Will that work in your movie or will you look like an idiot if that scene is shown?

Don Thomas

Not Morse Code for S,O.S. any Boy Scout could tell you that.

Don Thomas

So Boy Scouts go to your film and laugh. They think you are a joke.

Leon Reaper

mmm i cant believe you can think that in only a few sentences without seeing the character as a whole first....very judgemental....but i respect your opinion Don

Leon Reaper

:D

Don Thomas

Sorry Leon making a point. I respect you. You get a lot of where I am coming from. But not everyone does and as soon as I make my point I KNOW you will.

Don Thomas

Okay. What is Morse Code for the single letter V?

Leon Reaper

ok man....you know.....hollywood brings out lazy plots and scripts...they aint perfect themselves.

Leon Reaper

..._ ?

Dustin Bowcott

"i tell you what though, researching into child killers and the acts they have done is not very nice work to do i have to say....>__>" Then why go there? I like horror but for me horror has lost its lustre. IT's all gore and attempted shock. Would I be shocked by a child killer movie? Yes I would, so shocked I'd actually wonder what could bring a writer to write such a thing. My conclusion of course would be that the writer must be very young and is simply looking to shock the audience rather than wow (pronounced woo) them with quality of writing and an excellent story. I know because I was the same when I was younger. Children are taboo. Nobody wants to see kids getting hurt and my personal opinion is that a movie like this wouldn't even do well on DVD. Killing kids is not different, we don't go there for a reason. It's pretty much unmarketable and almost impossible to write unless you're fucked up. When I write I see it playing out in my mind and those sorts of images are just too disturbing to put there. We also have a responsibility as writers/filmmakers to ensure that we don't pollute minds in that way. Adults are fair game, kids are a no-no. And that's the way it should stay, IMO.

Chad Glass

Horror films will continue to be made for as long as there is visual entertainment.

Keverne Eason Mapp

YES! I'm the 300th person here to make a comment.....gosh I'm so happy! Maybe there'll be a prize or a gift in my mailbox? I really think that I should be invited to the TV studios and given some kind of VIP treatment,or should it be Leon? He's the one that posted his question about audiences being too sensitive to see a child killing another child,or was it an adult killing a child,or was it a child killing adults,or was it......I don't remember! So Leon,you feel that I don't think you're doing anything,but on the contrary,I think you've just got all the dialogue you'll be needing for a film called '300 shades of Horror'.You can getany actor to read out the various comments,have some heated,some sad,others very serious....you could start shooting tomorrow and have the whole thing edited by the end of the month and out on Vimeo and YouTube. But one thing to do is,listen to what we elders are saying,it'll serve you in the future.And stop being so defensive,it's all constructive criticism to get you thinking out of the 'BOX',because as it is,you've been conditioned and are walking down a well trodden path built by stereotypes that don't care about anything other than money. CALL ME MR 300!

James Holzrichter

lol grats on over 300 comments... :P

Leon Reaper

thanks james, @Dustin sooo you saying a child molester is very much different then?(seeing as there's a movie about that with kevin bacon) because im doing this as a Art and show the truth on real life....nothings going to be very visual. If a criminal is carrying a black bin bag trailing with blood, you will know something very bad has happened without even needing to go into chopping up bodies like SAW does etc. use the image and inclinations not the actual act itself. you know?

Leon Reaper

......

Declan Powers

i think it's a great idea. also you should check out the movie Red State, its about the evil of homophobia shown through a crazy cult that involves both adults and brainwashed children. i know its not exactly like your premise but i think you should check it out; its a horror filn but its done in an unusual way.

Alexander D Carney

No. If people don't want to see it, it's not up to me to change their minds.

Kate Callaghan

People are very protective of children.

Jody Yvette Wirt

I used to really love horror of all kinds, especially serial killer stuff. Then I had a kid. Now I have a hard time watching any horror, but especially something involving kids. I never imagined that I would feel this way- its come as quite a shock! But... all that being said... there are plenty of people who don't have kids and won't have this problem. You can't appeal to everyone, and I think when films try to appeal to everyone they end up with neutered hollywood trash. So make what you feel compelled to make! Something else to keep in mind though, people's imaginations are powerful, so even though you might not show it, what the audience imagines could be just as bad or worse! Case in point, people swear up & down that Tarantino showed the ear getting cut off in Reservoir Dogs, but he didn't, it happened off screen! Something else also occurs to me, it might be cool if your hero was a kid, too. That would counterbalance the violence done to kids, if a kid gets the killer and saves the day. And I don't think that's been done!

Cate Emond

I think you need to to tell the story you want to tell, and be brave enough to tell the truth without (or despite) worrying what other people will think. There is nothing wrong with being truthful, and in my opinion that can create the best art. I'm struggling with this myself right now as the script I am writing deals with the loss of children and the grief that comes with it, but having that courage to tell the story truthfully will make you a better writer. Good luck!

Evan Stewart Eisenberg

writing from a place of dark imagination is age old. where would crime novels or film noir be without some "deviant" influence buried inside waiting to be revealed through stories, movies, music or plays. Write on....get it off your chest. let the world decide if is worthy or not. sounds deeply intriguing to me. good luck . ee

Evan Stewart Eisenberg

ps. who does your hair? lol. ee

Chauncey Chester

Write your story and feel good about what you write.

Johnny McCaffery

It reminds me of another film....A Nightmare in Elm Street. If it's different and new, write it.

David O'Brien

Its a basic human need to protect children. They're our future, that's why strong and suspenseful films in the genre you're working will always jolt us. Only you, as the writer, knows the level to which you intend to shock us. If you do it for sensational reasons you might find an audience you didn't want. But if you make it truly suspenseful, it will be far more shocking and cathartic and add to our need to protect.

Angelina Carkic

I think it's a great idea. I'm a teacher and believe me there ARE evil kids out there. Maybe not to the level you'll be writing about, but surely without any empathy for others. They actually plan 'events.' and sit back watching the outcome. I like that you'll be making the audience 'imagine' the worst. Too many shows now are so graphic they take out the audience's ability to imagine. -- The way reading a good book does. Go for it!

Hope Mackenzie Perry

No I don't. My daughter is & she LOVES horror movies & the I.D channel! I think it is up to the parent to know how mature type child is. Hope is mature for her age & can handle adult situations & content. Now if the child can not handle stuff like that like can't even watch a scary movie without waking their parents up crying them no maybe not. Just ask the parents & the kid of the kid can handle it. Hope is an actress, I know she will have to play many different roles, so if she wants to play the part them I give her permission. There are shows out there about killer kids. If you ever have auditions remember Hope Perry. http://saige.hopemackenzieperry.com

Hope Mackenzie Perry

I wanted to hear children's views on this...remind you my daughter is not like most, but her 2 friends also gave their opinion. Now, I Wasn't sure if you are talking about a kid being the killer or being killed, so I asked both. 2 out of 3 kids, my daughter & the boy down the street said they would play both. The other little girl said she would be scared they would really hurt her if she played the kid being killed. Remind you, this 3rd little girl is a little immature for her age. My daughter, Hope said she would want to play both because she wants to play different roles. The little boy said because he thinks it would be fun. I think it's a great idea.You just have to make sure the kid is mature & knows it's just a movie. There are some really great actresses who played disturbing roles as kids, they ended up being great movies. You will find that everyone has their own opinion, you can't make everyone happy. You do what makes you happy. As a parent of a child actress, a child actress that is mature, I would let her do it if she wanted. Now if I had a different child, who was not mature, I would not let her. It all depends on the kid. For my daughter she just wants Challenging roles. Good luck on your film. Sincerely, Melissa, Hope's mom.

Troy Scoughton Sr.

Kids always scare me in horror flicks and I think that concept (done right) could be really spooky

Chad Glass

Andrew, that's an excellent idea. Make the film anyway. People go around the established system with regularity especially in the age of iPhones and cheap production values. Horror is horror and story is king, not agents or "official" venues. Make the film on your iPhone and then put it on Youtube.

Chad Glass

Yes the bottom line is often all that Hollywood cares about as it is a global machine seeking massive profits. It is a business after all. Where does one fit into it? Does one dare? Does one even want to? I think if you want to make a movie and make a statement with it then it can be done. The question is do you want to make sacrifices to get it made--to risk losing money? I think that is the biggest conundrum facing indie film makers. Do they sell out or do they make their movie regardless of a payday?

Angelina Carkic

I love your orphanage idea. It is brilliant. What if you pitched it again to other companies?

Lisa Pate

I think it is a story that certainly be told! It is unfortunately a part of life and CAN be portrayed in film. I like the fact that you're not using the graphic approach, though. If you need a child female actor (10 but can play younger), my daughter would love to be a part! Please keep me in mind as well... Wishing you the best on your project! :)

Chad Glass

Of course you already know there is a film called "Orphan" but the idea being discussed here isn't the same as depicted in "Orphan." And it's interesting in that his idea predates "Children of the Corn" which isn't the same idea either but entails a group of murderous children.

Chad Glass

I think "Children of the Damned" is one.

Chad Glass

Yes.

Leonard Benedetto

"Lord of the Flies" could fit in this category. And there's a little seen Spanish movie from 1976 called 'Who Can Kill a Child?" that definitely fits this category - and why no one has decided to remake it is beyond me

Chad Glass

good points

Hope Mackenzie Perry

There are always going to be some that don't like your work & some that love it. You can't make everyone happy. Believe me I have tried. You have to do what you believe in. Look how many movies out there involve children killer, in reality there are a lot out there. There is a TV show called Killer Kids on Bio. It's sad, but true. Just like there are people who kill children. Like on Deadly woman on the I.D channel, always has those kind of stories. Hope was in an episode called Nightmare Next Door about an 11 year old girl who was kidnapped, raped & killed, true story. Yes it is sad, it's sick that people could do that but a lot of people find it entertaining to watch. Like I said, you cant make everyone happy. Do what makes you happy. & there are people who would pick it up, if nobody would ever touch it then how did so many other movies like that make it to the big screen? Entertainment! But that is just my opinion.

Angelina Carkic

It most cetainly would be a creepy film. Kids watch murder on TV everyday and they're not out on a killing spree. Most definately get this made.

Angelina Carkic

You've 'kindled' my interest in on line E-books. Any chance you can give a hint what that entails? It might be a way to make a few dollars while I wait for a bite on the scripts.

Angelina Carkic

Thank you Chad! Nice of you to respond and so quickly too. Thumbs up Angelina

Chad Glass

You're welcome, Angelina.

Chad Glass

Andrew, thanks for sharing that backstory. That was very engaging and is its own story. You are wise to write it today as an ebook and self-publish. To my knowledge if you have a script it ends up either in the trash or in a pile of others miles high and anonymously invisible to the world. I don't know how anything even gets read and made unless one is already hooked up with powerful insiders who want stories written around A-list actors as career vehicles.

Angelina Carkic

How fascinating. Will you be writing a script on this subject? It would make a great period piece. You might be interested that in Oz. a great many bodies are discovered off highways and about 10 years ago, decapitated heads were being found around lake George near Canberra. News about these ceased being reported around that time. Probably censors stopped this information being circulated. Can't imagine it just stopped. You might find this a bizarre story worth looking up.

Cliff Zed

What audience are you targeting? If no graphic images, then you should be okay. Some people are too sensitive and that's okay. My sister was upset that the baby was kidnapped in The Incredibles. She's not your audience.

Ralph Shorter

In my opinion, I think it's okay to intimate what is going to happen without a graphic display of the actual murders. To go further might be too much for most audiences...

Kate Callaghan

I agree that suggesting what happened is a better way to go. I also have a concern for the young actor who would be playing a role such as this if it were to be graphic. Having coached kids, I have seen first hand what certain roles can do to them long after the production has wrapped. As long as they are not immediately involved in graphic scenes it would be better. Often parents are over eager for their child to do a role and consider their children mature enough to handle it so it would be easy as a director to take the parental word. Besides, the power of suggestion is often more powerful when you consider the viewing audience. Good luck with the project.

Peter Carr

Check out the Motion Picture Association's Rating Guide and you will find what is allowed and not when it comes to children and things such as this. I'm not agreeing with it but you need to read it before pitching your property. Some things are just not aloud in US or Canadian cinema

Michael A Vanderosen

I assume you've seen the renowned 1931 classic movie 'M' with Peter Lorre about a serial child killer? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0022100/ ...any discussions and forums around that film and the issues raised would be a good starting point...

Angelina Carkic

Loved that film. Peter Lorre did a marvelous job as the killer. Creepy, yet vulnerable. Loved it. And it's in German.

Fo Bo

I say go for it, as long as it's tasteful, we creative types would certainly appreciate it. There are child serial killers, and you can even reference one. Much success.

Jennifer Feuerbach

As a parent I'd argue this one way, and as a filmmaker I'd argue it another. It would certainly make for a terrifying movie. The question is how "truthful" are you being? Are you making people afraid for just the thrill, or are you really exploring the murderer's personality so that the audience believes that they could avoid such a person in the future? My one piece of advice is to have someone kill the murderer at the end. No "bringing to justice" will ever be satisfying.

Mithran Maharajan

Hollywood made children of the corn in 1984 and people did receive it. So I guess it's about how the plot is set up

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