Screenwriting : Jesus what's with all these logline threads? by Cherie Grant

Cherie Grant

Jesus what's with all these logline threads?

Half the threads at the moment are about people's loglines. Maybe people should be more concerned with their actual screenplays.

Kerry Douglas Dye

One theory: it's effective. Everyone needs a logline, and these threads are generating some good suggestions. I'll probably use this free logline review service myself soon. :) (In contrast, we've had a couple of recent "can you give notes on my screenplay?" posts, and they've been followed by the sound of chirping crickets.) Usually I agree with you, Cherie, but in this case I'm solidly in the "loglines are hard" camp.

Ivan Alexei Dominguez

The logline is but the initial line that displays in a flash the all story. I agree that we all know the definition and that in turn is given more importance than the script, but ... is the key that opens doors! Good luck. Regards Ivan

D Marcus

Writing an excellent log line is an essential and very important part of a career as a screenwriter. It is a condescending to assume that writers asking abut log lines are not more concerned with their actual screenplays. All writers should be concerned about their log line. It is the first thing an agent, producer, director or exec will see.

Janet Scott

Yep, perfect that log line and you got a story...

Janet Scott

It is a map that tells you where you are going. http://www.writersstore.com/writing-loglines-that-sell/

Danny Manus

or you can order my stage32 on demand Webinar on Loglines !

Janet Scott

Brilliant Danny .... thank you mate...

Chanel Ashley

I'm inclined to agree with you, Cherie - of course loglines are important and vital to the process, but I'm a skeptic, I'm not convinced the plethora of loglines on this site equals the same number of screenplays - the writing is the most important thing - providing loglines/synopsis on this site is fine, I hope that there are REAL screenplays in existence here as well - again, I'm a skeptic.

D Marcus

I see no problem with writing log lines to nonexistent screenplays. It's good exercise. Trying out, posting log lines and getting positive response may inspire the writer to write a "REAL" screenplay. Every writer has their own, personal method. We should encourage all methods.

Beth Fox Heisinger

Log lines are incredibly important! It's the essence of a script. It's DNA. It's your pitch. If a log line sucks then more than likely so does the script. I'm certainly not wasting my time nor is any reader. Chanel and Cherie, I'm confused by your skepticism and attitudes.... Stage 32 is a community. A place to share information, personal experience and to help one another. It's much much more than a place to self-promote. Frankly, those who only say "look at me look at me" are boring and solipsistic. If you'd like to see only scripts then perhaps you should go elsewhere. There are plenty of other sites that do just that.

William Martell

I can't answer for Jesus, but a script with a bland or bad idea is never going to be requested for a read in the first place. So it all hinges on a great logline... and that logline reflecting the script. I am often on film fest pitching panels where real producers listen to pitches and then decide the winner... and the last time I did this we picked the lesser of a bunch of evils. The producers usually request scripts from the folks who had great ideas. Last time: no scripts requested. The ideas were all bland and boring! And each of those was for an existing screenplay. How many screenplays are out there with bland and boring ideas?

Chanel Ashley

I must confess, Beth, I'm surprised and disappointed you would apply the word solipsistic, when I could suggest the same for you - am I not allowed an alternate view? - I already stated "loglines are important and vital to the process" - I firmly believe the WRITING is the MOST important - your logline may be brilliant, but the writing better be up to the task - so, am I not allowed a view because it may differ from someone else's? - this was discussed in another thread, separating loglines and screenplays and I still hold strongly to that view - you have a logline posted from 2 years ago, 211 views and 24 comments - it says on your page, "posted a screenplay" - you haven't, and it's none of my business whether you do or not, but I would suggest it more preferable you remain in a Logline category, separate from a screenplay category - as for your "look at me" comment" - well, let me simply say my estimation of you has diminished, I thought you were better than that.

Chanel Ashley

D Marcus, there is absolutely no problem with writing loglines to non existent screenplays, I'm simply suggesting I would prefer loglines and screenplays separated - no one has to agree, but that is my view.

Ami Brown

You can have a brilliant Oscar Winning script, but if the logline sucks no one will read it . The logline is not relevant to your SCRIPT - it is relevant to getting your SCRIPT funded or on screen. Practice makes perfect, and you want your logline to be as perfect as possible - to have the most chances of getting bought, or optioned or produced. If you are just writing for your own pleasure, or outlet, then a logline is not needed. It's all about perspective. :-) I love all these views and opinions.

Chanel Ashley

If you had a choice, Ami, and only ONE choice, would you prefer having written a brilliant Oscar Winning script, or a brilliant logline - I know which I would choose.

Ami Brown

Sorry to make another comment - but I think giving feedback on the actual logline is helpful. Giving feedback on the feedback probably just confuses the person asking. If everyone would only focus on the actual logline presented, then the writer could make their own decisions of what advice to take or disregard. Again - just my opinion that I feel would be more helpful to me as a writer.

Ami Brown

Of course a script. :-) But it's nice that you don't have to choose one or the other - both is better.

Kerry Douglas Dye

Given three days, I almost certainly could write a brilliant logline. It might take me three or four months to write a guaranteed Oscar winner.

Beth Fox Heisinger

Chanel, first of all, my "solipsistic" comment was addressed to a general "those" who say "look at me." I did not say you were specifically. Secondly, I did not personally attack you like you have me. Thirdly, what makes you think that posting only a log line makes me a bad writer or anyone else for that matter? My script made me a PAGE semi-finalist and a Just Effing Entertain Me finalist. RB posts only his log lines and he is an award winning kick-ass writer. A choice not to post something is not a sign of weakness or some sort of con. It's just a choice. Fourthly, you don't know me -- at all -- so don't make such judgments. And, lastly, I apologize to everyone else on this thread. I certainly never meant for this to get catty, therefore I have "unfollowed" this thread. Best to everyone. :)

Phillip "Le Raconteur" Hardy

Did you say Jesus loglines? Here you go: Upon returning to earth during revelations, Jesus chucks his mission when he falls for an attractive publicist only to find he’s in competition for the same woman with the Prince of Darkness. Forgive me Lord, for I know not what I do.

D Marcus

Chanel, I accept your view. I offered mine. Isn't that what a discussion is? I don't understand why you felt the need to state the obvious.

Cherie Grant

The issue is how do people write a decent screenplay if they can't write a simple logline?

Ami Brown

Cherie, I think logline writing is so precise, and a craft in itself. You are taking 120 pages and turning it into one encompassing sentence to grab attention, without being wordy. The script is almost the opposite - taking one idea and making 120 pages of well thought out scenes. So they are really two different talents, but both can be perfected, I guess it's easier to get feedback on one sentence than an entire script as well on this site. I get your point though - if you can construct 120 pages of dialog and direction, you should be able to master one sentence to get your point across. :-)

D Marcus

I believe people who can write a decent screenplay struggle with writing a logline. A logline is not simple. They can be quite difficult. Writers should be just as concerned with their loglines as with their screenplays. Perhaps that is why there are all these logline threads.

Monique McGee

I don't think its because people aren't concerned with their screenplays. I think its just more reasonable to assume that someone is more likely to give you feedback on 2 lines than they are on a full screenplay.

D Marcus

Excellent post, Ronnie. Log lines are not simple. Starting threads about them, discussing them, being concerned about them does not mean a writer is not more concerned with log lines than their actual screenplays.

Scott Edwards

I think a little critique from your peers is a very positive thing. I'm more than happy to put my two cents in on a logline if it will help the writer iron out any issues they see with their current one. We should be encouraging one and other to succeed. Not judging.

Wayne Taylor

Without a killer logline your script will collect dust.

Cherie Grant

You're kidding marcus right? With all the complexities you have to work through on a screenplay and people are getting stumped on a logline? This is a joke right?

Kerry Douglas Dye

If he's kidding, I get the joke.

Kerry Douglas Dye

Cherie, one more thought: maybe you can't relate because your scripts lend themselves to easy loglines. That's not a dig... some of mine have to. I can think of at least one script where I wrote out the basic by-the-book logline, read it, and said to myself, "yeah, perfect, that's my script!" But I have at least two others where I read my basic by-the-book logline and I thought, "jeez, this makes my story sound really boring. It doesn't capture the major selling points... the tone, the depth..." So you try to rewrite it to capture those things and now it's too long, or you worry it's not "by the book" enough anymore, or that you're focusing on the things YOU think are important but maybe aren't actually selling points... Then you post here, or otherwise seek guidance. Because SOMETIMES, loglines are hard. But, as you well know, not always.

Brian Shell

Good loglines are an artform. I'm still learning how to do a decent one. It's a "True North" to sail your script by (and sell it too). Concise. Precise.

Chanel Ashley

Kerry, I suspect the sore point may be there appears to be so much discussion and angst re loglines for scripts that may not exist - you related your story re three scripts of your own - this would suggest you have three COMPLETED scripts, a logline for one, a struggle with the other two - you are perceived as having done the WORK and require some assistance, which is not an issue - BUT, and I know I keep repeating myself, wouldn't it be preferable to have loglines separate from screenplays - discuss loglines all you wish, at any length, at your leisure, but not juxtaposed with screenplays - I would like to see a clean break.

Chanel Ashley

For clarity, one category with Loglines and Synopsis - separate category for Loglines/Synopsis and Screenplay - I fail to understand why there is such a strong resistance to change.

Kerry Douglas Dye

I have no resistance to your idea, Chanel. I don't even understand it. :) Sorry, I never understood the stage32 interface well enough to follow that debate. I came here to defend people requesting help with their loglines. No more than that.

Chanel Ashley

I have not made myself understood, I apologise for the lack of clarity - I'll try again - I'm not advocating removing loglines from screenplays, that would be ridiculous - as it currently stands, we enter Loglines and generally face two options - LOGLINES/SYNOPSIS and NO screenplay OR we have LOGLINES/SYNOPSIS with a SCREENPLAY to view - I'm advocating we split the two into separate categories - WHY? - some of us, myself included, have no interest in loglines and synopsis without a screenplay to view - no interest in people TESTING a logline/synopsis prior to writing a script or any OTHER reason they choose not to upload- there are of course MANY members that ARE interested in the former and that's FINE by me, but be a separate category and do your own thing at your leisure - myself, and others, PREFER, if the option is available, to read loglines, then the synopsis, followed by the screenplay if sufficient interest is generated - I would not have thought this as anything radical, but a simplification of what currently exists - this is my view.

Curt Butler

Jesus said that because he hadn't yet written the script. :)

Robin Squire

Really the script is everything. You could have the most wonderful logline every created, and a sensational synopsis to follow, but if the script has been put together clumsily and doesn't deliver what the logline promises, and the characters are flat and the story gets lost along the way and the..ah heck. Pitchfest, anyone?

Edward St.Boniface

THE ULTIMATE LOGLINE: Izzascrup. Thazzit.

Wallace Brown

Cherie, a logline is just as important as writing the script. It not only gives one a clear marker as to what it is they're writing thus preventing the risk of story-deviation, it is the logline (the short written pitch) that will help get the read of the entire script. Posting loglines and getting others' opinions/ideas/views also assists in the script-writing process and getting the creative juices flowing. A good site for logline feedback can be found here : http://logline.it/

Jimmie Dale Brown

Snopsis for WILDER: Title: WILDER By: Jim Brown ibrown@suddenlink.net 1-501-270-0541 Co-writer: Douglas Cloud LOGLINE: ACTION/ADVENTURE SCREENPLAY: WILDER features a female lead. Sydney Wilder is in constant danger from killers and drug runners. The story also features a strange and ancient civilization of travelers with the mystical power of shapeshifting. Action and adventure in the Mountains of Colorado. (Honorable mention Creative Writer Awards). Title: WILDER By: Jim Brown ibrown@suddenlink.net 1-501-270-0541 Co-writer: Douglas Cloud SYNOPSIS; Outdoor writer and adventurer SYDNEY WILDER is comfortable in her cabin in the Ozarks where She is a writer and adventurer. She is busily trying to complete an assignment for Cave Explorer Magazine when she is visited by old friend, AKIELA. A visit from a tall slender man of indeterminate age and background causes Wilder to change her whole schedule and head for Colorado. AKIELA has powers that WILDER doesn’t begin to understand but accepts as a friend. Akiela visits in the dead of the night and tells WILDER that he has an assignment for her . He asks Sydney Wilder to go to. Colorado to assist Monty Linn with a dangerous situation brought on by the greed of an unscrupulous land developer, smuggler of white slaves, and drug dealer. WILDER packs up her Jeep Commander, heads to Colorado, and begins the most exciting and dangerous adventure he has ever been involved in up to this point. Wilder awakens believing it to be just a dream since her huge watchdog, Aegis, had not warned her of an intruder during the night. Aegis is half Malamute, half Russian Wolfhound and 150 pounds of fangs and fury when aroused. But since Aegis knows Akiela and trusts him he doesn’t stir except to look up when Akiela opens the window and slides the screen off. Aegis sees it is Akiela and gently lays his head back down and relaxes. Akiela leaves a small leather bag of gold, and a map of a mysterious trail in the Rocky Mountains, and tells WILDER she will know what to do when she arrives at Monty’s ranch. When she sees the bag of gold and map Akiela left on her bedside table, she remembers her pervious night’s visitor and what he had said. When Wilder arrives at Monty’s Linn’s ranch, in the foothills of the Rocky Mountains, she finds that a crooked businessman, Luke Grogan, is trying every way possible to steal Monty's ranch so it might be used as a base for illegal drugs and human slave trafficking. Wilder meets Monty Linn and his friend Raven and learns the whole story. Monty Linn is desperate to find a way to pay off the mortgage that Grogan has purchased from the Buzzard Gulch bank. Raven is a mysterious person that just showed up at the M-L ranch and became close friends with Monty. He seems to be a Native American, but we are never quite sure. SYDNEY WILDER has to enter the majestic Rockies following a map to a mysterious valley where an ancient city once stood occupied by a regal people of indeterminate culture, background, or nationality. She is told that there is treasure there for her to pay off Monty's debt, and that she will meet Khaldun, brother of Odogbe who is somehow related to Akiela. Mystery and adventure awaits SYDNEY WILDER and she is again ready for the challenge. The “Ancient Ones” she is to meet have strange powers with the ability to disappear in one place and appear somewhere else in another form. With outlaws led by Grogan following WILDER and her small band of adventurers, the “Ancient Ones” slow down the pursuers by appearing to them as a Great Snow Owl, a very large rattlesnake, and a giant white wolf. Grogan and his hired goons are kept off balance by sounds of the night in the Mountains as chants and drums that could not possibly be there…but are heard by all the would be thieves and assassins. Who are these people she is to meet? Where do they originate? How did they accumulate a treasure, and why would "The Ancient Ones" give it to save Monty Linn’s ranch? What are these strange powers and abilities they seem to possess? RESUME FOR JIM BROWN AND DOUGLAS CLOUD: Resume’ for writers Jim Brown and Douglas Cloud Resume: Name: Jim Brown Address: 3 Plantation Drive West City: Heber Springs State: AR Zip: 72543 Country: US Phone: 1-501-270-0541 Cell/Pager: 270 0541 Fax: NA mail: ibrown@suddenlink.net Résumé for Jim Brown and Douglas Cloud Both Jim D. Brown and Dr. Charles Douglas Cloud have advanced degrees and both have experience teaching on the college level. Douglas Cloud and Jim D. Brown have recently optioned "A Perfect Gift" to Jessica Villegas Latuada at Nabufilms. "A Perfect Gift" is an original screenplay by Douglas Cloud based upon a true story. Maritza Guimet with CPA Films optioned two screenplays, FOR THE LOVE OF THE GAME AND A BRIDGE TO CROSS, by Jim D. Brown and C. Douglas Cloud after finding the scripts on InkTip. The scripts were actually adaptations of two of Jim Brown's books. Maritza originally picked them up as part of a slate of MOWs for OlympuSAT cable television outlets, to be produced simultaneously in English and Spanish. Ms Guimet did not produce the work and relinquished her rights. Jim Brown and Dr. Cloud have also been asked by Joseph Nasser to do a "Spec" script for Nasser Entertainment. A Bridge to Cross was optioned by Kevan Otto for production as a Movie of the Week. A Bridge to Cross was adapted from an original novel, by the same name, published in 2003 by Jim D. Brown. Mr. Otto did not produce the movie and relinquished his rights. A Bridge to Cross was a semi-finalist in the Kairos Prize screenwriting competition in 2010. Recent announcements confirm that "A Bridge to Cross" is in the top 25% OF ENTRIES in the PAGE AWARDS WRITING COMPETITION FOR 2012. DOUGLAS CLOUD:CO-AUTHOR > Address: 6325 Williams Grove Drive City: Brentwood State: TN > Zip: 37027 > Country: US > Phone: 615-584-4375 > Cell/Pager: 615-584-4375 > Fax: > Email: ednadoug@yahoo.com > Résumé� > > The writer has been mentored by Paul Cooper, a three-time Emmy winner, who served as staff writer for such shows as "Murder She Wrote,""Little House on the Prairie,""Touched by an Angel," and "The Waltons." Mr. Cooper has written one screenplay that resulted in a theater movie and several that > have appeared as recent television movies

Doug Nelson

Cherie – FYI, I’m a film producer, a reluctant director and I teach screenwriting (currently, I have a film in post, one in production and another in pre – oh, and I have a few award winning scripts under my belt.) Now I understand your frustration with all the superfluous and jejune threads you must wade through in searching for answers to your questions – but most are not as advanced in the process as you must be. I too get a little terse at responding to similar inquiries over and over (I’ve already answered that question over 100 times – let’s move it along!) But I curb my frustration when I realize that this public forum is a source of learning and a place for us to share our knowledge with those following us. So yes, I’ll answer those “dumb cyclic” questions over and over. Let’s pay it forward, shall we?

Phillip "Le Raconteur" Hardy

Doug: Perfectly said sir. And, I agree completely. This is something I said in a recent interview: "Be a good listener, develop a thick skin and possess an ample dose of humility no matter what comes your way."

Michael Eddy

All due respect to D Marcus - but writing a "logline" should not even be the job of the screenwriter. The writer's job is to write - be it a screenplay, teleplay, novel, book for a play. THAT'S the work. The logline is some bullshit shorthand for the benefit of reader's with the attention span of a gnat. That can be done by your agent - or the studio reader hired to do a synopsis of your 100-120 pages of hard work - when he or she is whittling it all down so the studio exec with a 6 figure salary and a stack of scripts for his weekend read - can take 10 seconds to decide whether to even bother to read what it took you months to write - if in fact they even know how to read - and don't simply fake it until the Monday morning meeting and wait for others in the room to give them their opinion. If this sounds cynical - it is. It's also realistic. Do your work as a screenwriter. Write a great screenplay. Tell a great story. Write great characters and dialogue. Hope it gets bought and made. Don't worry about the fucking shorthand to make someone else's job easier. If you need a logline to enter your script into a contest - then do it. Other than that - don't.

Doug Nelson

Michael – I truly believe that your road to fulfilling success will be long and bumpy indeed – but whatever floats your boat.

Phillip "Le Raconteur" Hardy

Jimmie Dale: First, though your screenplay seems to have been good enough to garner you “honorable mention” at Creative Writer awards, it probably wasn’t based on your somewhat lackluster logline and synopsis. Your logline feels like main character Sydney is in constant danger from the bad guys. And by the way, this story has shape shifters with magical powers. I think you can do a better job summarizing your screenplay. Additionally, it has been my experience that people interested in seeing a one page synopsis want to read a beginning, middle and end. You may think “leave them wanting more.” But producers and other readers don’t want you to pose a question like: “Who are these people she is to meet? Where do they originate? How did they accumulate a treasure, and why would "The Ancient Ones" give it to save Monty Linn’s ranch? What are these strange powers and abilities they seem to possess?” Your readers would rather be able to make an assessment of your one page story synopsis to determine if they’re interested in delving into the whole script. Additionally, your synopsis wastes valuable space with details like “Aegis is half Malamute, half Russian Wolfhound and 150 pounds of fangs and fury when aroused.” Save that detail for your script. A good synopsis should concisely summarize that major events of your script.

Michael Eddy

Doug - already been down the road to success. Bumps and all. Been there - done some of that - so trust me when I say I know whereof I speak. Made plenty of bank. Movies made. Credited and otherwise. Had a few boats sunk out from under me. Still afloat.

Phillip "Le Raconteur" Hardy

Michael: I’m happy you’ve had success with your career and you’re still afloat. I say do whatever works for you. However, I disagree with you about writing loglines. Many people shopping scripts won’t even read a synopsis if they think your logline blows. Some industry folk believe if a screenwriter can’t write an intriguing logline, then their script won’t be good. And I know that isn’t always true. But for me, I would never trust my literary agent or producer to synopsize my work. That’s my preference. Currently, my literary agent is shopping one of my scripts for television and just asked me for a one page logline and synopsis. If I told him go ahead and write it for me I think he would have said “Wait a minute, you’re the writer.

Doug Nelson

Phillip – you pretty much got a handle on it. Some days I’m a writer, other days I’m a producer. When I look at submitted works through my producer’s glasses, I want to see a logline that catches my attention; it’s your business card. A well written logline hopefully precedes a well written script. If someone other than the writer writes it – I consider that deceptive, and I refuse to deal with deceptive folk. But then, I’m only one producer among many.

Phillip "Le Raconteur" Hardy

Doug: I definitely agree. I’ve been lucky this year and picked up some people interested in pitching my work. However, I wouldn’t have obtained their support without being able to write a competent and god forbid, compelling logline and synopsis. A lot of newer writers have to be able to do this just to be able to construct a query letter. As a former teacher, I’m sure you probably taught your students the importance of this process.

Ruby Zandra Waller

I'm not quite sure what prompted all the comments regarding loglines, but I thank God for them because I have been asked for one for my book/ screenplay, "Kingmaker Blues". I thought I was going to have to write a logline for submittal. After reading many of the posts associated with Loglines, I'm thinking I might have already created the Logline behind the title. The title of my book/screenplay is "Kingmaker Blues: From the Ashes of Deceit He Rose!". My logline I'm thinking would be summing up the gest of the production with a one liner as evidenced by "From the Ashes of Deceit, Barack Obama Rose" - told from the perspective of Ruby Zandra Waller (Nevada Swing State Delegate to Barack Obama 2008 and2012), Forman of Clark County Grand Jury. I'm thinking a "Logline" is what us English Teachers call a "Thesis Statement" which introduces what we will be writing about. Thesis and Thesis Statements are very important. If a logline is as important to a screenplay as a Thesis and Thesis Statement is to an essay, I understand why all the comments regarding loglines from us new comers. I was probably not the only newcomer who was offered the opportunity to promote my work and submit the "Logline" for free. My guess is we all want to take advantage of the opportunity at "free" advertisement of our artistry by getting our loglines out there to our screenplays prior to finishing the work. I would be honored at any comments/posts made relating to loglines that helped me to understand how to make them "Attention Getters". Any feedback regarding my concept of a "Logline", and what is considered a "good one" by the awesome artists here on Stage 32 is greatly appreciated.

Phillip "Le Raconteur" Hardy

Ruby: Congrats on you book and screenplay. For your logline, you need to really have a good one/two sentence summary of your screenplay. Something like this would be a good starting point: "An unknown Senator from Illinois uses his charisma to defeat a field of other candidates and become the first African American elected to the United States presidency. "

Manuel Joaquin Santiago

Hey Ruby, congratulations on your screenplay! I just joined this awesome site and feel greatly encouraged. Also, thanks to Phillip for your generous recommendation to Ruby, it's instructive to me as well!

Phillip "Le Raconteur" Hardy

Manuel: You are most welcome.

Ruby Zandra Waller

Yes, in deedy, Phillip, Michelle Obama, Charisma, organizational skills, the loyalty of his supporters, and more importantly, the anointing of the "Trinity" made the difference in defeating the powerful Clintons, McCains, and Romneys while the 44th president served not just one, but two terms proving brilliance is best left undetected in the face of opposition.

Phillip "Le Raconteur" Hardy

Ruby: Now take what you just conveyed in your post to me and put it into a 30 word sentence that becomes your logline.

Ruby Zandra Waller

Thank you for your excellent logline prefix. I will tweek it so that a hint of the "Blues" behind the campaign that lead to the election and re-election of our first "Brown" President is revealed as the main theme moreso than the President's Charisma which only got him in the race.

Ruby Zandra Waller

Gotcha, thanks, Phillip!

Sydney Cuthbert

...In a world where budding screenwriters are concerned with logline perfection, a diabolical cabal of Hollywood studios scheme to force them to adapt a rigid structure in order to sell the "perfect pitch"... until they discover that... feel free to add your own Act III twist.

Curt Butler

... Jesus answers-back... "You got me?"

Phillip "Le Raconteur" Hardy

Or how about this one: “In a world of budding young screenwriters, a group of smug, pretentious elitists decide who is or isn’t worthy of their good opinion and instead offer smart alecky remarks.”

Phillip "Le Raconteur" Hardy

Alle: Yeah, that's it. We have a genre. Now it's a logline in search of a title.

Phillip "Le Raconteur" Hardy

Let it be noted that I have the only logline that incorporated the Son of God in this thread. Just sayin'

Phillip "Le Raconteur" Hardy

Alle: It's the same with any creative or even athletic talent. How many guitarists before a Jimi Hendrix? How many painters before a Vermeer? How many basketball players to get a Jordan? With Final Draft, It’s easier for the monkeys to format their screenplays than it is for the next Hendrix to learn and practice his licks.

Ruby Zandra Waller

Duly noted, Phillip, regarding the "Son" of "God". I was delighted no one bit your head off for it. Yesterday on Facebook there was a welcome home thread for Bowe. I kid you not, all the threads with "religious" connotations were requested deleted and the commenters were told in very disrespectful words to leave their religion out of their comments which was very distressing to me because God is a part of me. I can't leave Him at home which meant I had to leave the conversation as not to offend God. I'd much rather offend "man" and stay on track with God. I was a little disappointed that our World has regressed to having no problem with spewing hateful words in public, but allowing someone to express their love for God is out of the question. This thread has been very educational, and Phillip, I appreciate you taking the time to personally address my issues and the others who needed help understanding the importance of Loglines. Thank you for taking us on and "being your brother's keeper" where ever you were able to help. Now I can submit a logline I am confident with whenever requested.

Phillip "Le Raconteur" Hardy

Ruby: It was my pleasure to help. With regards to the Son of God, hopefully, you got the joke. Like anywhere else in the world, Stage 32 has there is a fair share of A-holes that think they're the real deal. I'm often irreverent; and in my first post in this thread, noted what's Jesus got to do with loglines? To make my point, I just incorporated him into a logline. Most people didn’t get the joke. I think that many folks could learn a great lesson from the Christ, who didn’t qualify if people were worthy of his love and help.

Jimmie Dale Brown

CURRENT SCRIPTS BY JIM D. BROWN AND DOUGLAS CLOUD* Titles and loglines. Would like very much for a director or producer to ask for a synopsis or script. A BRIDGE TO CROSS – Faith Based, baseball themed – Former baseball player, now gospel preacher, tries to Cross the Bridge from hate and frustration to one of peace and forgiveness. FOR THE LOVE OF THE GAME– Baseball themed, faith based story of Tim Casey as a minor league baseball player who finds a profession, a girl, and faith in God in Springfield, Missouri. WILDER –Outdoor Action/Adventure of a writer/adventurer - female lead JAKE SCOTT – Outdoor action/adventure seeking a treasure in the Rocky Mountains. Similar to WILDER but with a male lead. THE FOSTER TWINS IN THE MYSTERY OF THE HAUNTED CANYON- Twin teenage girls solving mystery of the Mystic Valley in the Rocky Mountains. THE FOSTER TWINS IN THE MYSTERY OF THE HOUSE ON JOINER LANE – Teenage girls trying to find a treasure in newly purchased property. Haunted log mansion? BLACK FURY– Western action/adventure with a cowboy, a wild stallion, a large dog, being stalked by a deranged grizzly, and a crooked banker/politician. A BUFFALO COWBOY FROM NEW YORK - David Knight has always wanted to own a ranch in Montana. He is a successful business man in New York, but decides to live his dream. WILDFIRE – Western, featuring a wild chestnut stallion, a cowboy trying to catch the horse to sire a herd of superior horses. Wildlife scenery, outlaws, a giant grizzly bear, a dog, and a romance with a Representative of the Society for the Protection of the Wild Mustang. THE PERFECT GIFT--A teenager girl suffering a physical handicap fights loneliness and the loss of her service dog. *All our scripts are strictly Family Friendly stories for family viewing. No cursing, no nudity, no suggestive language, or suggestive situations. Some action/adventure and “mild” violence. Jim Brown 501-270-0541 ibrown@suddenlink.net

Chanel Ashley

Jim, this is the second time you have invaded/hijacked this thread with your self promotion - if you wish to showcase your wares, post your own thread, this is a discussion re the value of loglines, not your items for sale - others may disagree, but where I come from you would be deemed "rude" - I'm using polite language because your scripts are "strictly Family Friendly" - keep this up and the language may change - as always, it is my personal view.

Kerry Douglas Dye

He's spamming lots of threads. Anyone know how to report abuse?

Phillip "Le Raconteur" Hardy

And his loglines ain't that great.

Janet Scott

Please keep in mind his age guys... let us be respectful here. I don't think he deliberately spammed....

Chanel Ashley

I suspect he knows exactly what he is doing, age or otherwise.

Cherie Grant

How do you know his age? How old is he? You must answer these important questions.

Janet Scott

His picture depicts an older person.... but, then again one can be fooled can't they. Not always is what your seeing what you are actually seeing... and perhaps we are all being conned here.... Mmmmmm must now go back and take a closer look at that persons profile... Now where is me eye glass. I broke my monocle....

Janet Scott

Hon, the fine gent is 75 years old.... well done Jimmie....

Cherie Grant

Wow, I didn't expect anyone to answer my question. haha Thanks.

Janet Scott

Smiles..... hello ...

Edward St.Boniface

I like to think of a logline as something meant personally for ME that would convince me to part with hard scrounged-for cash to see said movie...

Edward St.Boniface

Dat's how I try 'ritin' 'em...

Michael Eddy

WRITE THE SCRIPT!! Your job is not to condense all your hard work down to a TV Guide blurb for some lazy reader/would be producer. They pay professional readers for that. For those so concerned about this aspect of "writing" - why not do a mock up of the one sheet as well and attach it as a title page. Writers write - let all the other collaborators do their jobs.

Michael Eddy

Doug - just out of curiosity - I'm intrigued about your comment regarding "deceptive folk". If a script crosses your transom - preceded by a logline - how do you know who wrote it? Do you assume the screenwriter did? And since most screenplays are invented out of whole cloth - even those purportedly "based on a true story" - it seems to me that the whole nature of the business is based on deceptions in some shape or form. Let's not even get into the practices of agents and studio heads who have cattle call pitch sessions and than cherry pick the ideas of 100 different writers before hiring only ONE to write a script based on the work of who knows how many others. Writing credits - even when overseen by the WGA - are deceptive in the extreme. Tv shows written by committee where only a single name appears on screen. If you really refuse to deal with "deceptive folk" - you're either in the wrong business or you're dealing with one of the more intimate gene pools in the history of show business.

Kerry Douglas Dye

Michael, it's a good bet that most of the participants in this thread do not have a staff of agents, managers and interns that they can farm these tasks out to. Maybe you already had strong representation when you were trying to sell your first script -- or maybe things worked differently then -- but most people here are both the writers and marketers for their script. They need a logline if they're going to get past the first-tier gatekeepers and get their script read. They can either write the logline or buy it, but they're going to have to come up with it somehow.

Michael Eddy

Kerry - when I started out - I had written a couple of spec scripts and then had the help of a guy I knew (barely) - who acted as a go between (the way it's still done) and recommended me to an ex-agent of his. Not his (then) current rep - an ex-agent. I cold called the guy - sent over two screenplays for him to read. Complete screenplays. No loglines. No short hand. He passed on both and passed on signing me as a client. Before I could get depressed - the same go between - said he's talked about me to another agent at a party he'd been to. The guy said he'd like to take a look at my script. I was told not to send anything I'd given the first agent - as they both worked at the same agency. I was working on a third script - and as soon as that was finished - I sent it to Agent # 2. he liked it - but because it was a biographical piece - he said if a studio wanted it - they'd option a recent tome on the guy and hire an established screenwriter to adapt the book. Asked me what else I had that he could read. Before i realized it - I pitched him a script that his partner had already passed on. he asked to read it. I hung up - realized my mistake - and thought - should I call him back and tell him - or just send the script. I sent it. Hadn't change a single comma from the draft his partner said no to. He loved it. Signed me to their agency. Worked with me weekends on editing and rewriting (he had started life in Hollywood as a writer...) - and when it was finished - optioned it to a big producer - got my career started - and into the union. There are a 1000 stories in the Naked City - and mine was just one of them. I only say this as one more tale. To each his or her own. No 2 stories are alike. I agree with you that most on this site have no entourage to parse out the work - nor should they. Writing is a solitary affair - and if one burns with the desire to make a living as a scribe - than write. At the outset - you have absolutely no one but yourself to rely on. No one else to believe in you but yourself. 120 blank pages staring you in the face. just you alone in a room with an idea that needs to be written. The agents and managers etc. come later - if you're lucky. This thread started with questions about loglines - and that's what I responded to. I find the whole idea of them to be demeaning and belittling to a writer's talent. It's shorthand. BS. In my opinion. the ONLY time I was ever asked for loglines was well into my (then) burgeoning career - when a junior agent at my agency called me because rather than do HER job - and come up with loglines for my portfolio of original scripts for the agency that was trying to get me work and earn their commissions - - she said "I'll go down a list of the titles of your scripts - and you give me a one liner for each one". I did. All it accomplished - from my point of view - was that I had cubby holed myself into a box - and a lot of the "loglines" started to sound dangerously similar to one another. So it prompted me to go 180 degrees with my next spec and write something unlike anything I'd done before. It was awhile before I was asked for another "logline" - by a prospective producer - trying to get me to do his work for him while he trolled around for financiers for my work. I did it - begrudgingly. My feeling - as always - being that if I took the time to write a fully realized screenplay - take the 2 hours to read it. Finally - I am currently sans agent or manager or anyone else. I'm back to rookie status and beating the bushes on my own behalf. No picnic. Other than the fact that I know I have some good stuff. And still believe in my own talent as a writer. And one more thing - that script I used to get Agent # 2 interested - the one HE passed on before signing me based on the script his partner had turned down - it went in a cabinet for a few years - as I honed my craft - and when I dug it back out and did a page one rewrite on it - my then agent made a huge spec sale on it to a major studio. So - happy endings sometimes take time. And as the esteemed William Goldman has written: "Nobody knows anything". Including myself. And you can take that to the bank.

Kerry Douglas Dye

Indeed. And, for the record, I sold my first script through an agent who I met face-to-face... to my memory I never composed a logline for that one. But my second sale was on my own through an online brokerage. So in that case, logline.

Michael Eddy

Kerry - I'm curious - you sold your first with an agent - but by the second - you were going solo? Was there a long spread of time between sale 1 and 2? What happened to the face to face agent? Also - the online brokerage is intriguing. My worry would be about putting work into cyberspace and not knowiong who's seeing it or where it's ending up.

Kerry Douglas Dye

It was about five years between the two. During that interval the agent left the business. I was never signed with her. She was from a top-five agency but didn't do anything like what I'd always learned agents were supposed to do... like promote your script. She just kept it in her back pocket and if someone was looking for something that fit the bill she'd send it out. Very passive. When the script sold, she negotiated the terms but I had to vet the actual contract. Seriously doubt she or their legal department ever looked at it. Anyway, her and the agency parted company around the time I was selling the second script. Since I feel pretty comfortable with contracts I did all the negotiating on my own and, while the movie is still in pre-production so I can't say for sure, this does not appear to have been a mistake. I hear your concerns about putting the script in cyberspace. On InkTip, at least, you get the name/company of anyone who downloads it, for what that's worth (they could still be anybody). It certainly isn't my first choice for how to do things, and I fervently hope that in 5 years I'll find the notion well beneath me. But at the moment, that's still where I'm at. Maybe this new picture will be a big deal and help advance my career. The first picture was very much NOT a big deal and did almost nothing for my career, though it paid for my wedding. :)

Cherie Grant

Kerry why don't you put on your profile what you've written that's been produced?

Kerry Douglas Dye

I have... it's in the credits section. I also added my IMDb link. I just didn't put in a bio. I don't really have anything biographical to add that's not reflected in my credits. Unless you care where I went to high school. :)

Cherie Grant

Hmmm...yes where did you go to highschool Kerry. Will add to the profile i'm writing up on you. for stalking purposes you see.

Kerry Douglas Dye

Central HS, Philadelphia, PA, USA. Alma mater of such Hollywood luminaries as Bill Cosby and Norman "Mr. Roper" Fell from Threes Company.

Michael Persaud

After reading this thread heres a brain flash to log-line: Jimmie B, "prominent screenwriter" dies and ends up in screenplay heaven, Michael E the arch angel guides him to a huge boundless room of millions of screenwriting "monkeys" pounding away at old school typewriters. Its here he learns that every 100 years one screenwriter is returned to walk amongst the living with a produceable screenplay and the rest burn in hell, can he strive be that one? Does it matter if he cheats, kills, steals ... or do whatever to succeed in this key clicking land? Disclaimer: all persons are "somewhat fictitious" and no harm or disrespect meant Official disclaimer: All characters appearing in this comment are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental. Keep the thread alive :) Mike

Michael Eddy

Kerry - gotcha. The last thing one needs is a passive agent. You need one that is out there kicking in doors on your behalf - even AFTER you've arrived. I had one once - really nice guy. Too smart for the room. Passive. After a meeting I had with a studio exec who had optioned my script (and a passive producer who brought in the property but wouldn't get paid unless the movie got made - so - was ass kissing everything the exec said), who clearly was clueless about what it was she had purchased - I left a meeting without kissing any rings. By the time I got home - the agent had called to tell me to call and apologize - if I wanted to stay on the project (an original BTW). I did. Sort of. But after a couple of (paid) rewrites - they replaced me anyway - with a female writer. I mention this only because the script had not one but two female leads - and the exec was female at a studio being run by a female - and the first noter they gave the new writer - was to change one of the female leads to a man. I was irked - and wrote a letter to the exec - copied the head of the studio - and told them in essence that they shouldn't be publicly asking for scripts with female leads if that was their end game. And if that was their intention - kindly put my screenplay in turnaround and let me shop it elsewhere. I copied my agent - after I sent the letter. He called again - told me every writer should write that letter - and then throw it away. I didn't see the point in that. Asked him what I said that was wrong. Nothing he replied. But you should have run it by me first. It can't be unsent. Apologize again. This time I fired my agent. As for cyberspace - I will cling to my fears. Even knowing (via InkTip as you said) - who's looking - I'd rather not burn a piece of work by just putting it into the wind. I'd still rather be selective on where it goes and how it gets there - even if that's limiting. I've been ripped off even going through legit channels - so once burned - twice shy.

Michael Eddy

Michael P. Clever. I added my own "like" so you wouldn't be spinning in the wind liking yourself, all alone. I really did enjoy your post. Although Jimmy B. (or his fictional incarnation) seems to be here trying to synopsize his goods for sale - I'm just jumping in and out whenever some post tickles my fancy and I'm in the mood to play "guide" - and archangel my way around someplace other than an episode of SUPERNATURAL. If you haven't already - might I suggest watching "THE PLAYER". Terrific movie - about a studio exec who murders a writer. Some great characters and dialogue. My lone pet peeve with the story is that it makes no sense. It should be the screenwriter murdering the exec. Otherwsie - it makes no sense at all.

Danny Manus

I have nothing to add. I just wanted to be the 100th comment. ok I'll add one thing - scripts about writing or selling a script don't sell. Hehe.

Cherie Grant

and i just wanted to be 101, like those Dalmations.

Michael Persaud

@Michael E.: Thanks mate, i feel yah, there are a lot of screenwriters that might feel the same way about offing the execs from what i've heard. I'll take a look at that movie when i have some time to kill :).

Ruby Zandra Waller

Well, all this talk about loglines and synopsis made me want to get mine done. Frankly, I'm thinking I should have done that first so that first to keep me focused on the main idea of the screenplay as I write a strong support of the logline at the beginning of the screenplay, a stronger support of the logline in the middle of the screen play, and make sure my audience is convinced with a super ending concluding the logline of the screenplay and making sure the synopsis is addressed throughout the screenplay. I'm thinking had I done the logline and synopsis first, the creative juices would have flowed better because I would have had a mission to accomplish and a road map to the climax and a story to tell from the beginning to the end. Hot Dog. My logline and synopsis has me fired up and ready to create to meet my 8/4/2014 completion deadline.

D Marcus

You bring up an excellent issue, Ruby. Starting with a great log line that grabs attention may be a good thing.

Janet Scott

I would like feedback on one of my log lines.... No Bashing allowed.... please. When planet Earth finds itself caught in the middle of a war between two feuding alien races, the governments of the world have to figure out which is the lesser of the two evils if there is to be any hope of survival.

Ami Brown

Hi Janet, Is the government the hero of the story?

Ami Brown

I think the term "find itself" and "two feuding" are not needed. War already implies they are feuding. You could use the term Interstellar governments or Interstellar leaders.

Cherie Grant

great, more bloody loglines.

Ami Brown

That's a cool story. So basically Earthlings have to choose a side to fight for so they don't get destroyed too. Maybe you can describe the dilemma more... Earthlings must join forces with an enemy alien race to fight an interstellar war and save mankind and Earth as we know it.

Ami Brown

We know you love them Cherie. :-)

Janet Scott

Earth leaders must chose to join forces with an enemy alien race in hopes of saving mankind.

Janet Scott

A rogue alien joins forces with the president to bring about the end of an interstellar war and save mankind.

Janet Scott

A rogue alien defies his race to save planet earth.

Janet Scott

Cherie my dear, they are much needed little lines. And seeing that I chose to brave it and put my head on the line.... smiles... be kind.

Michael Persaud

@Janet, forget the government, give it a hero that of course works for the government but totally fubars his ties, pardon my slang, to prove that we can all just get a long. IMHO, if you think along that line of removing the government from your logline you will expand your script and blow your own mind away :)

Janet Scott

Okay.. thank you Michael.... taking another look.

Janet Scott

When Earth is caught in the middle of a battle between an interstellar and reptilian race, humans have to decide which is the lesser of the two evils in order for mankind to survive. NOPE

Phillip "Le Raconteur" Hardy

Janet, sometimes the order of words can make your logline read better. For example, take your same logline and reword it a bit: "In order for mankind to survive, Earth must choose a side when they are caught in the middle of an epic war between two alien races." I made a couple of changes but you should always experiment with several different variations. And for my money you don't need to identify whether they are reptilian or interstellar in your logline.

Michael Eddy

Janet - not to be mean or anything - but this thread began (I think) as a discussion of loglines - and their necessity or lack thereof. I am opposed to the writer having to denigrate their hard work by condensing it all down to a TV Guide blurb - and I'm on record as saying so. As to your scifi idea/logline - no offense - but if you're looking for a writing partner because you don't trust your own instincts to write a 2 liner, I'd suggest writing the script FIRST and worrying about your logline much later. I'd also be wary of posting unwritten ideas on a public website for fear of theft. And - most importantly - I'd start a new thread so any replies can be done directly to you and not clog up the inboxes of every other participant on this thread. I don't need to get multiple postings from you with the exact some post nor do I need to be privy to all the back and forth from others trying to be helpful to your specific needs.

Janet Scott

Fair enough Michael. Point taken.

William T. Fanelli

I understand the importance of a great logline and agree with most comments here that you MUST perfect the art of writing them... or get as good at it as possible. My only issue with them is they tend to indirectly favor high concept writing. I write a fair amount of experimental shorts that don't necessarily thrive through their loglines due to the non-genre specific nature of the material. Oh well :/

Sydney Cuthbert

I think every logline ought to tell us who it is we're supposed to root for. The government is a little vague.

Michael Persaud

I will agree with what Michael said earlier leave the log line for last. If you have an idea tune it and go with it pound out your pages, if you can't get past page 50 its not writers block but the limitations of your idea, re-twerk.. um retune :), then when its all done and you are sipping on whatever you prefer then figure how a log line will work for you. As Phillip pointed out sometimes its just a twist in the words that can make a huge difference. Personally for me I want to get my story penned and with my constant focus on the actual paying daytime job i wouldn't let a log line hold up the show. That's my 2c for now.

Michael Persaud

@Sydney/Janet how about if we ... screw the government ... in this case out of the logline and get to the meat of what we want the reader picture, in this case humans and aliens. In any event lets continue the thread on the original issue at hand and if anyone needs help PM me :)

Janet Scott

Thank you Sydney I really appreciate your response. I agonise over the bloomin logline every time. The idea for the story... Not the problem, I usually visualise the story from start to finish in my head before I write anything. I then write a detailed treatment, and work off that when writing the script. I know my stories well before writing anything. That is just the way I think. Your advice is much appreciated.

Janet Scott

Michael, thank you again. I really appreciate the offer of help by way of contacting you. Yes, that little twist of the words can make a whole lot of difference.

Janet Scott

I did get a little bit carried away yesterday on the thread bombarding all. I have since learned, Don't DO that.

Sydney Cuthbert

You're welcome. I've wrestled with those beastly loggies meself. If there's anything else I can do to help or cheer ya on lemme know!

Janet Scott

Thank you kindly Sydney...

Cassie Hicks

Say, Cherie, I don't mean to be off-topic, or anything, but I'm not a playwright, a director, an executive producer, a screenwriter, or an actress of any TV series, or movie, I'm just a Chicago-based entertainment fan who's looking for a local publicist who can interview me about my three topics that are based on soap operas and music. I'm out of luck right now, when it comes to landing a publicist, but, there's something I can do to make that happen.: I can put in much of the work. I can do teamwork with that person by calling local radio stations gradually, e-mailing to this state's politicians about an exciting event, and messaging to many of my friends on Facebook. If you know that person, great. If not, then, that's OK, I won't waste your time, I'll look to someone else. Hope to see your post tomorrow.

William Martell

No one is going to read your script if you don't have a great logline... And since the logline is your script in around 25 words, loglines are a great way to see if you have that raw material for a great script. It's a diagnostic tool. Why write 110 page script that can only have a crappy logline because your idea is mundane or scattershot or is so generic that it could be anything? If you are going to come up with 100 ideas and then Thunderdome them to find the best idea and take that one to script, you are going to have a whole bunch of loglines... and 99 won't make the cut.

Kiril Maksimoski

Seven years old post and nothing changed....same as in my line of work...my peers construct shity mails, but most important all sentences have full stops to the neat...

Chanel Ashley

Wow, has it really been seven years, geez, I've been gone longer than I realised, some great, familiar names here & I miss their conversation. You were considerable fun, Cherie, a bright spark on this site & several others names that lifted the quality of conversation on this site. A good & successful 2021 to you all. Cheers.

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