Screenwriting : Microwave versus the oven by Pete Whiting

A topic near & dear to my heart. It's like the chicken or egg controversy. Are the studios making films targeted toward a dumbed down audience or does today's dumbed down audience no longer interested in meaty films?... Don't know. Yet a few strong films (Mule, The Hurt Locker, Gran Torino...) do sneak through. The accountants & marketing folk tell us that some of the all-time greatest films (Gone With the Wind, Casablanca, Lawrence of Arabia...) should /could not be made today. I can only hope that it's cyclable and that our dumbed down audience will be swept aside. I'm not holding my breath.

Well, Pete, I like the message Craig Griffiths gave me after I first joined Stage 32 four months ago. In a nutshell, Craig told me that if a script is a certain length, it's that length for a reason.

I'm all over the map when it comes to script length: My shortest one, thus far, clocks in at 115 pages (including the title page); the longest I've posted thus far checks in at 133 pages...and without the tricks I learned here on Stage 32, it'd still be 156 pages, plus the title page.

I like to think there's still room for "slow burn" movies...as well as the "faster burning" ones.

Pete, thanks for posting!

The witch was a pretty slow burn horror flick. A lot of people didn't like it because of that but I loved it

@Jeff The Thing was also a classic slow burn. And Jim, yeah I am the same. Sometimes if it takes 129 pages to tell the story then so be it. But as long as every word counts and ads to story and is needed. Certainly times when this is ok, especially for the right genre. A kids film I wrote is 87 pages but other scripts I've done range from 110-133. And some of those longer ones have placed in finals in comps and gotten fairly positive coverage. In fact the criticism from coverage wasn't page count, but saying that their advice certainly would effect the final page count.

And Doug, yep agree. Studios need to lift the intelligence of the masses, not keep patronizing them and dumbing them down. But probs want happen. And look, it doesnt have to happen wholesale either. Not every film needs to be a slow burn thinking style film. But by padding out some movies that have been generally canned, they could have made the films a lot better.

Love the thing

Yeah...some people get down on cinema at times...I know. It's not entirely uncommon here at times.

Just out of curiosity, Pete....did you see Roma...or Green Book...or At Eternity's Gate...or A Star Is Born...or The Wife...or If Beale Street Could Talk....or Never Look Away...or Mary, Queen of Scots...or Lady Bird...or Get Out...or Call Me By Your Name...or The Shape of Water...or Three Billboards...or The Post? Those are all recent "Hollywood Films."

Hollywood....and global cinema....don't just make "microwave films"....but water seeks it own level, too. I'm sure you could find films that aren't patronizing, and that don't always "dumb down" - maybe you and Doug Nelson just aren't looking in the right places.

Best fortunes to you in your creative endeavors, Pete!

@Bill - yeah I did see a a lot of those mentioned films. I found some of them refreshing because they were a slower burn type film. There is still many diamonds among the coal for sure.

Dan - I probs do sound like an old man! lol. Not my intention, just interesting to see the shift in how films are done. Neither is better or worse. i guess my post was trying to see if people think there is a place for new writer to be writing some of these deeper slower burn type of films or if they should focus on something short and shiny.

appreciate the comments and discussion though. Thanks to all.

@ Dan - a very valid pathway. A lot of wisdom in that. Cheers.

I get what you're saying Pete. I guess it seems the most mainstream films pushed are those that fall under the category you're feeling partial to, but there are still films making it with great plot and character development. Thy're both around. Personally, I enjoy them all. I can sit through 120 mins no problem and enjoy a movie, and I can enjoy shorter ones with nothing but action.

And hey, you're a screenwriter too, so this is the chance to aim to create more of those movies you want to be seen :) Channel that passion into pushing out some those quality scripts you've grown to love.

Agree with Dan MaxXx. There are so many low-budget films that are not epic in physical scope, and that are great stories/films.

That's a great way to get noticed as a writer, too. Smart writing...unique premise and story... memorable characters...relatable emotions.....something that a producer hasn't heard before. Your five log lines seem to do that, Pete.

And just to add two really exciting films that began as "slow burns": John Wick and The Equalizer. There isn't much action in the first 15 minutes of either of those great films.

Best fortunes in your creative endeavors, Pete!

Thanks Bill. Much appreciate your comments and encouragement.

Nothing beats a good story. So what if Hollywood standards have changed? If this is the truth, then why is Shakespeare still relevant in this day and age?

There are so many films that were monster hits that wouldn’t be made now.

Kramer vs Kramer 1979 Best Picture Oscar - Nope

Citizen Kane - no way. There is one shot with a massive depth of field. These days blurry backgrounds rule.

Soon as you want to make that sort of thing, it’s off to Indie Land. But that is a great place to live. Good food, nice people, weather is great.

Slow burn narrative + ambiguous ending + John Carpenter Direction = Pure Cinematic Bliss

We are in a generation of "instant gratification" where we have access to everything at the touch of our fingers. These, I think, has reshape how we view of create films. I personally love the films of the '80s '70s where story matter most. But, as a writer I too have changed and if within the first ten pages of my script nothing happens, I need to take action. By something I don't mean action, but conflict. Each scene must have conflict, for me or I cut it. "Ordinary People" is one film that would still work today. We know very soon that Cal, the lead character is struggling with something, as he we get in his dreams early on. My humble opinion.

A few gems sneak through as mentioned. But the big thing is even the fans are cluing into these half-assed attempts to cheaply entertain as no longer acceptable. That's why I believe Aladdin has been rejected. The studios seem totally incapable of making movies themselves anymore. The gems still come from the independents that get big-studio distribution deals.

You should just write what feels right to you and ignore the market. I won't be dictated to when it comes to what story I tell. If that stops me being financially successful so be it. Personally I think that Cinema will die a death soon. Unfortunately people can't afford to visit it like they used too. Cinema hasn't adapted to competition from online markets. Their pricing structure doesn't reflect and films transition so quickly to online streaming services that people just wait. So the only bankable movies are big budget films that replace character story for explosions. Online markets are adapting though and films that have heart and soul are being made. Times are changing. No one can afford to go out anymore. The majority sit at home and are looking for a good film or TV show that will fill their nights.

@Karen Stark,

No disrespect to you, and your statement about "ignoring the market", but one of the first questions I'm usually asked (if I didn't state it) is "who is the market?" And also (if I didn't state it) "what is the rating?" At the end of the day, an exec/producer/gatekeeper has to believe that there is truly a market for a pitch/great idea/story. And again, no disrespect to your beliefs on that.

Best fortunes in your creative endeavors, Karen.

Bill Costantini Karen Stark I don't come here often but let me see if I can clarify something that will make both of you right. If you're writing a spec script, a passion project, I'm on Karen's side. Ignore the marketplace. Ignore the rules. And 'write what you want to see'. (A philosophy that was passed on to me by the great screenwriter Robert Towne. As soon as I heard it I said 'that should be our tee-shirts') That's the best way to come up with something original and in your unique voice - which it the best way for you to get noticed. If you're going to pitch a passion project - which I don't recommend - then I will have to fill in a lot of the blanks to try and determine if I'm talking to somebody who does that kind of stuff. And in terms of feature scripts - it's not as bleak as you're making it out to be. Yes, to see your character driven two hour baby on a big screen is truly an endangered species. But if you can settle for the 80" screen in your living room there will be tons of original two hour movies that will have to be made by Netflix. Amazon. Hulu. And all the other original content streaming services being birthed every day. That's the view from here.

As a little kid in the early '50s; the Saturday matinee was a BIG thing - it cost 9 cents (yes, $0.09). All during the '60s, '70 & '80 it remains a pretty big thing (the drive ins were a kick too). Going to the Theater with its big silver thing was pretty awe inspiring to a little kid... And then along came those shopping center multiplexes with their little postage stamp sized screens and SCREAMING sound systems. The charm was gone. Then came the intimate coffee house 'art' cinema - it was good while it lasted but it was pushed aside by those damned shopping center screamers. I'm sorry to see it gone - my kids & grandkids will never have the experience that I'm so fond of - they'll never know what they missed. I agree with you Karen; the times certainly are changing. But on an upbeat side I've witnessed an increase in the number of private little 'pub house' theaters that provide a platform for the expanding 'small time' indie filmmakers who can & do produce some extremely good passion projects. I'm hopeful that the economics will find a supportive point. Hope springs eternal.

Bill C,markets change like the wind and the time it takes to actually get a production going, writing to a market becomes a foolish endeavour. By the time a writer creates something for the current market the market has shifted. A writer should write what they believe in. They should right what they feel, what their voice compels them to say. Markets exist of course but writers aren't in the business of marketing, they are in the business of art. If what they write fits the market at the time then they are successful at that given time. I'm talking about writers breaking in, not writers who are given writing assignments to fit the market. A writer who looks to break in should write originally otherwise the market gets stagnated anyway.

Bill T, I'm in complete agreement with you. I think we are at the birth of a new era in film and TV too. I have great optimism for the changing face of moving picture entertainment.

Doug, I too am heart broken by the demise in the cinematic experience. I hope the popularity in Indie films boosts the growth of small independent cinemas across the globe. Lets hope that changes the market for the better.

Karen S: I said that the question asked to me, if I hadn't already stated the answer, would be "who is your market?" That has nothing to do with "following trends." If you think it's a "foolish endeavor" to aim a script at a specific market - like children, young adults, horror fans, romantic comedy fans, sci-fi fans, Hallmark Movie audiences, any ethnic group, faith-based people, LGBTQ-ers, people over 50, etc. , then so be it.

Karen S/Doug N: I don't understand why some people always feel like there is a "demise in cinema" There has never been, since the beginning of time, more different types of films being made. Ever. And in more places, and by more people, and with greater ease, and with more viewing outlets, and with much more diversity in both participants and in subject matter.

One of the Stage32 staffers just shot a horror-comedy film for $4,000, and wrote about it in a blog. A Stage32 member recently made his own low-budget thriller, and wrote a blog about it. Another (from England) wrote a low-budget action film, and write a blog about the movie while he was on the set (in L.A.) Their stories are all in the Stage32 blogs for your reading pleasure.

And the numbers keep going up each year.

I go over this way too much on a website that is devoted to creatives. I've put "current great indie film" lists on here many times in the past. If you focus on "Big Hollywood Blockbusters", and "how patronizing yada yada yada they are", then so be it. But in reality, there is a much more "bigger picture" when it comes to the thriving global cinema industry. And Hollywood studios and producers also make many great films each year, too - like the ones I listed above, and that's only a fraction of the great Hollywood films from the last couple years. To think otherwise is just plain wrong, and even patronizing in a psuedo-superior "I'm a fine artist" kinda way, and/or maybe even a "sour grapes" kinda way.

No disrespect to either of you. 'm not trying to be confrontational. I'm just letting you both know that global cinema is alive and well, and that a lot of great films are made and released every year - low-budget, medium-budget, and big-budget. And that, even though it is very difficult to sell a script and to get financing for a film for most people, there has still never been a better time in the history of the world to be a screenwriter or to be a filmmaker.

Best fortunes to both of you in your creative endeavors.

Dan MaxXx: I know. that's pretty wild, isn't it? MoviePass sure has had a wild and bumpy life, but AMC Stubs is doing it in a more advantageous way. It took them a while to get the agreements and splits to be acceptable by the studios, but they did it right. I guess it helps when you also have the concession profits to reap, which MoviePass doesn't.

My AMC theater is two miles from my house. There are 12 films playing right now. Pokemon Detective; Avengers Endame; Aladdin: Godzilla; John Wick 3; Ma; The Sun Is Also a Star; A Dog's Journey; Rocketman; Brightburn; The Intruder; and Booksmart.

Only two of those films aren't in my movie-viewing wheelhouse, and that's a pretty nice mix of great films for just about every type of moviegoer.

Best fortunes in your creative endeavors, Dan!

Dan MaxXx: Yep. Another great film just waiting to be seen.

I forget the exact order of Booksmart's journey to production, but it was on the Black List's Best Unproduced Screenplay List like 10 years ago; then was re-written a bit a few years later; then was re-written again a bit more a few years after that. That's why there are four writers credited on Booksmart. At least nobody got bumped, and thank goodness that Megan Ellison ultimately wrote the checks for the script and for the production. But there's another "From Script to Screen" example of how long it can sometimes take for a story to evolve - and evolve again - into a film.

Patience may be considered a virtue in life, but in screenwriting, it's a necessity. Here is the latest trailer for Booksmart for those who may be interested in seeing it. Annapurna even put the first six minutes on Youtube in another video. That's some groundbreaking marketing, and will certainly influence future film marketing for at least some films.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmz0-sBOEgo

Best fortunes to you in your creative endeavors, Dan MaxXx!