Screenwriting : Are you a good storyteller? Perhaps even a great one? by Phillip E. Hardy, Prolifique

If the answer was simple, everyone would be a great writer. You can google what makes a good writer, but what google can't do is write for you. The night was.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................. humid. The night was humid. Sorry, just watching Throw Mamma From The Train. Love that story.

DMA: When I was a kid I loved the "Magnificent Seven". My favorite character was Britt, played by an up and coming actor named James Coburn. He had damn few lines of dialogue in the film. Yet he managed to steal the show with his performance. He had a great script to work with; but I wonder how that part would have come off in the hands of another actor? Britt was one of the first characters that really stood out for me.

1. Ability to get the audience to feel empathy for your character(s). 2. An interest in making observations about the human experience. 3. Ability to meter out the flow of information in a rhythmic way. 4. Originality without reliance on cliches and gags.

Is it easier for a "reader" to discover a great story in less than optimal structure, beats, etc., or to find a mediocre story that has optimal structure, beats, etc.?

This is the issue with writing. Lots of people want to do it, but few know how to actually tell a story. This is why finding your voice is so important. it helps tell that story. If you don't have one you don't have anything compelling.

Bix: The "walking unread" is a great description. How about a script where all the zombies are aspiring scriptwriters?. You may have something there.

I think some people just understand how to entertain others regardless of the subject at hand. It's a bit like how someone can make you laugh at any joke, even a bad one, because they're so talented at delivering it.

Well ... here i something to consider. A good script, even a great script is only a starting step. Actually, the very fist step. Making films is a collaborative environment (Producers, Directors, Actors and even Writing Teams). Chances are that even if your script is good / great ... it's not going to survive all of that and come out the other side intact. I think the lucky few who can Write / Direct and have creative control are the only ones who stand a fighting chance. Most everything else will turn into 50 shades of awful.

I read about 20 scripts a week for various outlets and I can say hands down the biggest problem is a good idea poorly executed. That poor execution is a combination of pacing, not digging deep enough into character and formatting. This is where all of those thinking I've got a great idea for a movie are separated from those who are impassioned to tell stories for a living. In other words, those that think they have a good idea, get the bug and become a hobbyist and enter competitions and other various outlets, but when they learn that it truly is an art form that requires a keen sense of the industry and mastery of craft, they give it up. Honestly, if a person is an impassioned storyteller, that is compelled to write regularly or they would go bonkers, those are the ones who find a trusted outlet for feedback, be a mentor, writer's group, consultant whatever, and they become great storytellers because of their tenacity, their passion and those they carefully choose and trust to listen to as they constantly work at improving their art form. I know many world class artists, musicians, writers, dancers and singers and the only way they got to be at the top of their peer group is by working at their art EVERYDAY -- even after they began raking in the dough.

I'll offer my two cents. I believe there are three elements to the creative mind. Drive, vision, and talent. Drive is easy to quantify. You have to have the motivation to do the work. Many people have lots of drive. I'd say the poster-boy for this particular element of the creative mind is Arnold. No second name needed...he's THAT driven! Vision is a little more difficult to quantify, but it is a sense of hipness or zeitgeist. I'd say that this essential ingredient is the trademark of Quentin Tarantino. The final and most elusive element is talent. Talent is that remarkable quality that transforms a crazy, highly opinionated, barely manageable lunatic into a treasured artistic contributor. Given the basis of these three elements, I'd say that one of the greatest problems in the entertainment industry today is the emphasis on Drive, first, Vision, second...with Talent coming in dead last.

I'm curious guys, do yo think that part of the problem is taste? For example, if I read something that I really like, the chances are that my wife will not and vice versa. To really enjoy a script, surely one has to relate to it, but does that make the author a good storyteller? Of course there are people who can turn even a bad story into something really great, but doing it every time?

I think that you (all of us) have to go beyond your circle of friends and family to get a true measure of a script. If you give your script to someone who happens to love the genre your writing in, there is a better chance they will love your story. This may not be a good gauge as to how well written your story is. As others have said, I think a great writer has talent. Just like top athletes who shine in there field. Lots of athletes can play the sport but few rise to the top. That takes talent.

For all practical purposes, the audiences for a screenplay is the reader that will forward or pass on the screenplay. As Phillip introduced the topic it was in regards to him reading a lot of scripts and wanting to know what separates the good from the great. The screenwriter has a much more complex task in presenting the elements of story and the pacing of story with the least amount of words and pages as possible. It's not a novel where the storyteller can wax on poetic, it is not a graphic novel where the imagery speaks for a lot of the words, it is not an oral storyteller who can captivate a listener with their emotion and timing. To say a screenwriter is any less of a storyteller is absurd. It requires a mastery and discipline of craft that these other art forms don't.

I think the problem is so many want to tell their story but do not know hot to accurately write it. They spend time writing in circles and getting feedback from those on the same education level. The ones who are serious bear down, take in feedback, and plow on through to learn the art form. A great story can;t be rushed. I think great storytellers don't just write, they visualize the story in such a way the detail is so vivid. That when it is finally written, others can see the vision the way the writer intended. It is hard for me to find trusted sources to provide honest, in depth feedback on my work. I always find those around the same education level or who have a few more years on me to provide story notes. I get general story notes but no experienced notes from someone who actually knows how to help improve a script and telling the story. Truth is, I received my best notes from someone in the industry. Right from that one person I became a better writer. He helped me become a better storyteller. He sees my potential and wants to help me improve. That is the kind of motivation that keeps me writing everday whether it be new script pages, the series bible, or rewriting to tell a better story. I am itching to go back and rewrite 2 scripts to make the stories stand out mroe on top of the sitcoms I want to start on and learn how to write a feature. I wish I didn't have the vision issues I have so I could finish my scripts faster to work on more material. Such is life!

Bix, artists of all forms must practice at their craft everyday including writers. The other types of artists you say are 'probably' in front of others only do so after they, like writers, have spent hours alone honing their skills, I know this to be true. It does work the same for writers, I promise you. The critical paying audience are the ones who will read your spec and either move it forward to get it made or not. I suggest you meet more screenwriters.

CJ: You mentioned that some people "some people just understand how to entertain others regardless of the subject at hand. It's a bit like how someone can make you laugh at any joke, even a bad one, because they're so talented at delivering it." I wonder if that is an innate ability? In other words, can that be learned and practiced? However, I do believe you've touched upon something important here. Laurie: As I believe being a good storyteller requires a certain amount of natural (innate) ability. However, I write all the time and agree with you that being good at anything requires frequent practice.

Phillip, I believe anything can be learned up to a professional standard with enough practice (practice itself motivated determination). However, in the case of entertaining others, that practice most likely starts from early childhood and thus those who develop a knack for it could have tens of thousands of hours of head start by the time they are building a career.

CJ: Thanks for your response. Bix: Great post sir. And as far as "Lawrence of Arabia", one of the best scripts ever written; and Robert Bolt wrote some good ones.

I agree with what CJ (and others) have said, and for two specific reasons: 1. Learning any theoretical system - from street-sweeping to writing to neurology to quantum physics - is easy, as long as you're competent enough to learn it, of course. The important conclusion about any learned system is this: through systematic repetition, cognition continually improves. The more you do something, the better you get. And for writers, the phrase "writers write" holds true to that postulate. 2. For those who are "natural storytellers", and from an early age: that signifies that someone has innate creative abilities/traits/characteristics that certainly makes them more likely to succeed at that professionally, even though the competition is immense in any artistic/creative field. And I would add this as well. 3. Just learning to be a writer, and being gifted from an early age in storytelling, isn't enough. I'd add that you have to really understand human nature in order to become a successful writer. Therefore, understanding human nature/cause and effect is paramount to being a successful writer. Without that, you might be good at something like structure, but you probably won't be good at character development, nor will you good at telling a convincing story that is plausible. 4. Hemingway said "you learn something, and then really learn it by experiencing it." That might be the best summation of learning how things work (through theoritical learning), and REALLY learning how things work (through practice/experience/living life.) Well said, Papa! Great insights, everybody.

The problem I see in a lot of scripts is that they have an idea, a hook, a twist and then they spend 90 pages trying to build a story behind it. I just read a script that would make a nice 30 min macabre (pick your forum Tales From the Darkside, Twilight Zone, Outer Limits. etc) story. But it wasn't a 30 minute spec. It was 110 pp script. And it wasn't poorly written. In fact, it was well written; just unnecessarily written.

Bill: By Jove, nature and nurture!

Hey - do you know Jove? He owes me 200 bucks! Just a little additional shout out to you, Phillip E. (as in "Exceptional") Hardy. PH recently read one of my scripts and provided me with some extremely critical analysis of the entire script, and some really great notes, too. You're a great storyteller yourself, and a great critical thinker. You really convinced me to add some parts to the story that were missing, and you really helped me spruce up the dialogue. You're as good as any script consultant that I ever worked with, PH. I really want to say "thanks" for all that you did to help me make that script better than it was before you read it, and I want to say "thanks" to Stage32 for providing the channel to allow me to hook up with people like you. Thanks PH and RB!

Papa Hemingway liked to grab life by the balls and swing - and when the stories began to dry up he blew his brains out. For me - in the end it's all about being able to dip into that barrel and come up with a great story. As for the story telling, well that's down to your ability to write and how many miles you have clocked up on that old roller coaster called life and hard you have sucked on its teat. I saw a figure a few years back that said 80% of screenwriters who finally get a project made - never manage to get a second off the ground. As somebody on these boards has said - it's crap game. When you scoop up the dice you start all over again. At best a movie made - will temporarily open up a few doors. An equally damning statistic is that 80% of directors only make one film. So in the end it comes down to the STORY. To tell a compelling story - you need to be able to dream up a damn good story in the first place.

Everyone is getting really distracted here, regarding what constitutes a good storyteller/script writer. There are indeed some universal truths here, and of course, there are exceptions to the rule. I still stand behind what I originally said. Granted, there are other valid metrics by which to judge writing, but let me repeat the four I listed much earlier in this thread: 1. Ability to get the audience to feel empathy for your character(s). 2. An interest in making observations about the human experience. 3. Ability to meter out the flow of information in a rhythmic way. 4. Originality without reliance on cliches and gags.

@FFR: Thanks! To take it a step further. I love is reading ads that say: "Boy, do I have a great idea for a screenplay. And, It's a million dollar idea. I read one last week at ISA where the guy told his life story in several paragraphs. All he wants is someone to write a script and not get paid for it. Getting caned by the headmaster "Please sir, may I have another._ But I digress in my own thread. @FFR: I'm going to disagree with you to a minor degree over "judging your own work." Of course we can't be objective; but I think good writers need to have an internal bullshit meter that allows them to read their work and say "this is rubbish." But I fall in love with all my shit... so don't listen to me :) @Bill C: Thank you for the kind words my friend. You're hired as my PR guy.

To Andrew Martin Smith: No disrespect intended, AMS, but Mr. Hemingway's suicide , like the suicides of his father, brother and sister, was at least partially attributed to hemachromotosis, a disorder that ran in his family and that can cause severe failing health (both mentally and physcially). I worked at a major neuro-psych institution for a few years in the 90's, and quite a few suicides had that as the underlying disorder. Hemingway also had some major shock therapy treatments in his later years that severely altered him and exacerbated his decline. Those two events - the underlying condition and its effects, and the disastrous ECT's and its effects - probably contributed to that final decsion by him more than anything . RIP, Papa. What a life he lived - and wrote about - though. A couple dozen or so writers have profoundly shaped the modern era of writing, and Hemingway is certainly one of them (along with Ibsen, Joyce, Virginia Woolf, Eudora Welty, Salinger,C.S. Lewis, Arthur C. Clarke, Tolkien, Vonnegut, Orwell, Tom Wolfe, Hunter Thompson...etc.)

Well I think people should say they have a great idea or a million dollar idea. Even if they don't or the script has a concept but poor execution. If the writer doesn't believe in their own work then why should someone else? Can't fault a writer for being enthused about their work. Of course there is a difference in being champion of your work cocky and conceited.

To PH: Thanks! I don't do anymore PR work though - business consulting has been paying most of the bills for the last 15 years or so. And I really do appreciate the rush request on the script - I had to get it out today, and thanks to you, I did The moniker of your company ("Mad Monk Productions") is aptly conceived. You're a fast priest, man! Speaking of mad monks, I share this joke that I heard Larry Reeb tell from around 20 years ago at the Funny Firm in Chicago: A guy joined a very strict Buddhist monastery. He could only say two words every ten years. After the first ten years, he went to the head monk and said "bed hard". So he goes back to doing his stuff...scrubbing rocks....doing his meditations...and ten years later, he goes back to the head monk and says "food cold" So for the next ten years...he's doing his stuff again....and then goes back to the head monk and says "I quit". The head monk looks at him and says "that doesn't surprise me - you've done nothing but complain ever since you got here!" Oh! Good old Uncle Lar....one of the funniest standups around. Check him out on Youtube when you're not busy. He'll kill you.

Bill: Thirty years in the monastery and the guy turns out to be a slacker. Go figure!

Bill I didn't know about the hemachromotosis - fascinating - but the last decade was not vintage Hemingway.

Bill, Lol, you killed me with the Monk story. Thanks, buddy.

So in the end Bix, what you are saying is that we slip into two camps - pitchers and hitters. The storyteller whose films are character driven or writers like me, whose characters inhabit their stories. When I pitch, the conversation with my producers is about THE STORY. Personally - after almost 100 years of film making - I doubt if there is a such a thing an original story. What you are looking for is an original angle that makes peoples ears prick up. I have a screenplay called Soweto's Run that goes into production at the end of the year. The story is a spin off from the research that I undertook on another screenplay - Soweto that is under development. Pitch - In August 1980 SA elite Koevoet security forces picked up the spoor of an MK/ANC runner, who had just crossed the Angolan/Namibian border - and so began the longest escape and evade run in military history. 368ks in 5 days - running day and night, fueled by Benzedrine. Hunted all the way by some of the best trackers in the world. From the writers perspective you have got the hunter and the hunted. Nothing new in that story wise - Run of the Arrow, Last of the Mohicans, Tracker, Rambo, a Cornel Wilde movie set in Africa, whose title now eludes me. The angle is the runner has now become a fictional character - Danny Kilino, known to his comrades as Soweto, whose fury and radicalism has been forged in the Soweto student uprising of 1976. - plus Benzedrine. A writer can have a lot of fun with that combination. Is my screenplay story or character driven? It was pitched a a political action thriller - but it has a key character whose development allows the writer to move beyond the norm. Is the film character driven - no. The film is story driven. As a note - there was an earlier blog about screenplay paranoia and the fear that novice writers have that somebody is going to steal their story. That story has been around in military history circles for decades. I first heard it around a campfire in South Africa twenty years ago. Anybody could have picked up and written it - and maybe somebody has. All of which is utterly irrelevant. Whatever you are going to do with the story - is not what I have done with the story. You cannot copyright a story idea. You are either the master of it - or somebody else dreams up a better angle. One screenplay gets picked up - another one doesn't. Craps law.

AMS, I'd agree with you, and I"m sure so would Papa. After he wrote "The Old Man and the Sea", he was in a plane accident and sustained a bit of brain damage. He was never quite the same after that. Add his heavy drinking, heart disease, artery disease and hemachromotosis....well, it shouldn't have surprised anyone that a suicide from a man who lived, loved, played and wrote as hard as he did would accept those diminishing physical and mental capacities so easily, you know?

Jorge, Larry "Uncle Lar" Reeb kills it. Check out his old stuff on Youtube if you wanna have some great laughs..

Thanks, Bill, I'll check it out. But I have to tell you I learned a lot from all your previous posts and laugh which is even better. Thanks again, buddy.

Andrew: The Cornel Wilde movie you referred to is a great action film called "The Naked Prey", which the Criterion Group has out on DVD. It was one of the earliest films I saw with minimalist dialogue and stunning visuals.

What separates them? Good luck, in-borne talent and a reliable typing device.

Tony: A good succinct answer.

My brother has summed this up perfectly over a beer a few years ago. "You learn something from a great story. You learn about people, humanity or even about yourself. "

Cheers Phillip - I will hunt it down. I have not seen it since I was a teenager - but it has always stuck in my mind as a great story. Cornel Wilde was an Interesting actor/writer/producer. He made a low budget science fiction called Death of Grass that also caught my attention when I was a kid first discovering film.