Screenwriting : Feedback by Martina Cook

I take all feedback with a grain of salt - good, bad or indifferent.

Do you think it's believable? It is afterall your script...

Most scripts aren't believable nor are they supposed to be. Don't ever change anything unless you agree with the person and think it will make your script better.

Thanks guys, I appreciate your input, it's always good to hear someone else opinion...

Dealing with feedback can be tricky.

On one hand, we as the writer think we've written the most amazing script ever. Then the reader needs to read through our crap and help us understand that we have to work at being "good."

Then the writer has to read the reader's notes and understand if the reader knows about being objective vs. subjective. Because a bad reader brings their personal opinion into the notes just like a bad writer can bring their personal feelings into interpreting said notes.

"Experts" can sometimes fail, and the writer can as well.

1. Did the reader explain why parts of it were not believable?

2. Are the unbelievable parts of the script something that you can look up on the internet to prove believability/plausibility in what you're trying to convey?

3. Writing is about re-writing. Are you willing to make changes if necessary?

Something I've learned from writing is that you don't have to re-write an entire script you just need to find those rivets - then smooth 'em out. Is there something you can do on page 23 that makes page 40 suddenly more believable? Sometimes one small change in the right area can make a huge impact on the rest of the script.

"Work smarter, not harder" - Scrooge McDuck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jEZraf0eDI

- Chris

I disagree with Dan in part. Deep down in my heart I want to believe that many scripts started out believable but got rewritten to make them worse. Are they supposed to be believable? Why even bother telling a story if you don't expect anyone to believe it,...or at least want to believe it?

One of my biggest pet peves is what I call "Oh-Come-Ons" When something on the screen is so incredibly unbelievable, or stupid, that I'm literally yelling "OH COME ON!" At the screen. If you're writing the next James Bond film then have at it. Otherwise...

For the most part, much of what you don't know can quickly and easily be learned by googling it. For a simple example, don't have your hero create a diversion by holding a lighter up to a ceiling fire sprinkler in order to flood the whole building. Fire sprinklers don't work that way. Only the sprinkler he's standing under will go off. Even if you didn't know that many people in the audience do. Respect their intelligence.

I was doing coverage for a screenwriting competition when an otherwise decent script had the hero facing off against an angry bull with a shotgun. Try that in real life and you will die. A shotgun will almost never stop a bull with one shot and you won't have time for a second shot. However, this was s simple change to make. There was no reason not to change the shotgun to a rifle such as a .30.30 or a .30-06

Perhaps the reviewer was simply saying that you have more work to make the reader suspend disbelief.

Regardless of whether they are a reputable source or not, it's really difficult to accept the opinion of only one person. If you didn't have a two-week deadline, I'd be seeking more feedback to see if others make the same comment.

The reviewer means "suspension of disbelief," as Pierre said. :)

Patrick. Depends on the genre. Science fiction movies aren't very believable which is why they call them fiction. Maybe some people do think they are believable but I sure don't.

Actually, sci-fi is considered "speculative" fiction; sci-fantasy is stuff that could "never" happen. Within the former, there is "soft" sci-fi (Star Trek) and "hard" sci-fi (Hardware). :D

(I NERDED!)

It is a little hard giving you advice with no context. Things that could be unbelievable, a mother falling in love with her child's killer, a person willing to do something to make a point not worth making. Is it that sort of unbelievable? Look at "the note under the note". Why is the actions a character taking so unbelievable? Is it because you didn't do enough set up? Is the person action out of character? Are they over-reacting. Do their actions lack logic? Don't take the note on face value. As a writer you are manipulating a readers emotions and thoughts. Where have you led the reader to make them think it is unbelievable. Patch work or full rewrite can only be answered once you have diagnosed the problem.

Actually the word "fiction" means that it's not a true story, not that it's unbelievable.

Agreed, Patrick, but within that context, "science-fiction" is considered stuff that "might" or "could" happen. It's just a distinction within the sub-genre. I could give more examples, but there are entire books on the subject, so it shouldn't be hard to find a discussion or article online. A lot of scientific advances and discoveries have been based on sci-fi, so that probably has something to do with it, too. A lot of those poindexters are nerds.

Martina, I don't even have an entire rough draft of a project I'm currently working on and I'm receiving Notes. I'm not even signed. :D

Craig's first example is a good one (the second happens all the time IRL, though). Anything that might cause the viewer to question verisimilitude needs to be cut or rewritten.

I rarely change anything based on feedback. Unless the person giving me the feedback is paying for the changes. Martina, that is one persons personal opinion. Do YOU feel they are correct? Do YOU feel parts are not "believable" now that this person pointed them out?

Each opinion in here corresponds to a voice in my head! In one hand, I feel that a professional feedback should help me learning my limitations and work on them. On the other hand, I like this script and I feel that I took it to its maximum development for the knowledge, experience and skills that I have right now. So yes, I am going to make changes, but the main story will stay. If then I am told it really sucks, well, I have learned something new, and that will help me growing for the next script.

For what "believable" means, I have a very open mind...Someone mentioned 007...Sharknado, anyone??? Or Indiana Jones? The Goonies then would have never been made if believable was what matters...Thanks all for your input though, it helped a lot.

I had a script that one contest loved it and gave me feedback. I rewrote it to include the changes. I entered it in a second contest that hated it and gave me feedback that mostly contradicted the first. I took the script in a whole new direction. I re-entered the first contest and they hated it. I re-entered the second and I was a finalist. Point being - Everything is subjective.

Martina. I know 99 percent of the people here believe that getting feedback is necessary. I am a minority here because I never ask for it and I don't care to hear other people's opinions and that is what feedback is. I go with my own gut feeling.

Dan - you and I are at an age that we don't need no stinkin' feedback but the younger writers (under 50) are still wrestling with their insecurities - under 30, their just downright nutz! They need that feedback to ruffle their feathers, to sooth their egos or develop hardened skins.

Lisa. At least you're polite.

Doug. It is good to hear I am not the only one that doesn't get feedback.

Doug & Dan, really, you show no one until you send it out. No one sees it before you hand it to a potential customer? Interesting, I myself have a few people that I trust. Mostly because they (emotionally) see different things in cinema. I know what expect from each of them. If I don't get it I will think about why.

Craig, I don’t write spec screenplays anymore and I have been doing this long enough to know if something works or doesn't work without getting other peoples opinons.

What does "not believable" mean? Does it mean parts of the logic flow weren't logical? Does it mean parts were too contrived? Does it mean parts were too predictably easy? Does it mean parts that were fantastic didn't fit with the reality of the story's world? Were parts of it too deus ex machina-like?

I ask this because I'd have to know what "not believable" means making a decision on re-examining parts of my story. I've heard the "too contrived" reason before, agreed, and dealt with it appropriately.

It would help if you could give some examples. Does he mean that parts of it don't work in the world of your movie or is he simply having a hard time looking at it through the lens of hyper reality?

My guess is the world you built from page 1 does not jive with the actions of your characters. Anything is believable if you setup the story and establish the rules of the world. Look at Ex Machina and the way the Director sets up the intro of the Robot.

Some examples: my script is a mystery, the protagonist (woman) has to find who is stalking her. The stalker set her up and she is found in a murder scene. A police man investigates on her while she is on the run: he falls for her and, instead of taking her to the police station and arrest her, he hides her in his house and helps her looking for the stalker. Feedback: not believable that a police man would do that. Not believable that he would corner a possible suspect and hold him on the wall to interrogate him - lawsuit. Not believable that her brother would push the police man on a side lane to ask him where his sister is - lawsuit. Basically, everything about this police man is not believable! Also, the stalker is a cyber-hacker who hijacks her emails and phone, so all traces of her life are deleted...not believable either. Thoughts?

Yeah, there really seems to be some "not believable" here, particularly the cop's behavior toward a murder suspect. What he does is a firing offense for starters. Maybe there's a workaround: make the cop not a cop, but a retired cop, or a former cop, maybe a fired cop who got fired for making reckless decisions on the job, and he has some stake in all this, maybe working as a private detective for someone, but there are other possibilities, a blood tie to the murder victim, for example. Good luck!

There are some problems you need to fix to make the story work. What is the reason for the deadline? Is this an assignment? If you PM me I will make some suggestions.

Thanks guys, I start seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I'll rework it and let you know the outcome...I appreciate very much all your input, and the patience with a novice "wannabe" writer!

I agree with the feedback you received.

A cop would not be the one to arrest her. There would be a lead detective assigned to the case and he wouldn’t show up alone to arrest her. And since he is the detective in charge he isn’t going to go and arrest someone he thinks is innocent.

I would like to have seen her being stalked by a stalker and her report it to the police. She could call them several more times because the stalker keeps stalking her. The same cop could be the one that shows up and it is obvious that he likes her.

She could find out who the stalker is on her own or whatever and follow him and witness the stalking killing someone. The stalker sees her but she gets away somehow. Since he doesn’t want her going to the police he tries to do her in. That is when the cop that took the report hides her out because he is trying to protect her from a killer.

Then I would have the lead detective discover her DNA was left at the murder scene and even come up with a witness or two that places her at the crime scene at the time of the murders. This would raise the stakes even higher.

Then it is up to her and her policeman friend to solve the case and prove she is innocent.

I don’t’ know but something along those lines would seem a little more plausible but I am just a self-taught hack so who knows.

Here are a few more tips for writing a mystery or a thriller.

Thrillers and mysteries should be full of reversals. Settings up a character then have action reverse what is expected of that character. There should be tension throughout the entire story. Tension is sometimes maintained when knowing violence could erupt anytime.

Act I is setting the tone of the story. Open with a lot of questions for the audience and then later provide answers that aren't the true answers to the questions.

Act II is uncovering your characters. The audience finds out information that affects the characters, and letting the characters find out information that is affecting s them.

The story should develop as layer after layer is stripped away and the true story is revealed even if some of the revelations suggest answers that may not be the truth. This sets up the reversal.

Act III should answer all the questions posed in your story. You should hold back answers as long as possible, but when the answers are revealed they need to seem logical. One approach to doing this is to make one of your characters the logical solution to your story and then reverse that expectation.

Hope you find something here helpful.

Dan G....Yeah polite is important since I want to keep getting hired by him!

I once received feedback by someone who told me the story that my partner and I had written would never happen in real life nor the actions of those in charge would had ever taken place. I did not even bother to let him know the story was based on a factual situation that had in deed taken place and the entire story was true. I know because I was there.

Natalie. Same here. I had a producer tell me that I one of my stories was not believable. I didn't tell him it was based on an actual event that happened to me.

You stand in good company. Could a great white shark mount half its body up on the bow of a boat and sink it, then be blown to bits with a single shot to a propane canister in its "Jaws"? Could little blue people smaller than GI Joe figurines live in a tree they worship as an "Avatar"? Could persons in sunglasses enter phone booths and be sucked through phone wire conduits into a "Matrix"? Weigh their note based on whether you are pitching Disney Studios or a factual productions studio; whether your audience is SciFi enthusiasts or Discovery Channel knucklebiters. In my view, it all comes down to whether a house could be sucked up in a tornado, stay in one piece, and then land on a witch? Oh, yeah, that was a dream.

That's is a weak feedback. Most films are unbelievable. What is/are the reason/s they did not believe it? I provide coverage all the time on unbelievable scripts, but did they pull me into their reality with a good set-up? What is the real story? Is there a real story behind the premise. There are a ton more, but don't fret... Donald J. Trump is president, that is unbelievable. If you'd like more feedback feel free to PM me.

If it's Believable, probably a boring film. Are you drawn into another world and buy into an Unbelievable story, now we're talking. Some of the most compelling "based on true stories" are very hard to believe.

I think this is where a few different opinons and feedback would be useful. If everyone has the same critiques, then there may be something to it. Remember though, just because one person, no matter how expert they are, it is still just one person and everyone has opinions! Best of luck!

I'm with JD; many films are unbelievable, especially that one where it wasn't believable that the U.S. government would recognize the catastrophic consequences of a flying-machine if used as a missile, yet they can't stop street thugs from targeting two New York buildings when they even know of their previous attempts to blow them up, and the whole 911 world tower building idea collapses under its own weight. Not to mention the convenience of training the pilots in the movie on their own U.S. soil. What? It feels all too convenient and could never happen.

I think genre drives a lot of the requirements on believability. Sci Fi and Fantasy: You can get away with a lot. But I can't think of a good murder mystery that requires a lot of suspension of disbelief, whereas thrillers, yeah, some are ridiculous. (Remember in Diehard when Bruce Willis jumps off the roof of the building tied to a fire hose? Great fun, but c'mon man, that ain't happenin' in realsville.)

Martina. (Sorry can't type at icon before name cos server brings up multiple names....web page glitch of which there are many). RE critic They said everything about policeman is unbelievable, yet a by the book squeaky clean cop may be equally disbelievable ....aswell as magnolia. Remember Police Series "The Shield" Mackey and others were "more than" in every sense of the word, than the criminals. (It was carefully woven into plots that they went by their own book). Your critic also kept mentioning "Lawsuit", yet we don't live in a perfect world where everyone follows the letter of the law. In real life a law suit may arise from lifting a tin of beans in tesco, but the outcome of a conflict between two characters can have infinite possibilities. I think if the characters are believable, with dialogue true to their world, anything is possible. It all depends on how the idea is executed. Give the script a tweak and then get it out there.