Screenwriting : Worst rejection ever? by Martina Cook

Ouch. I have three really bad ones - two with film studio execs - but speaking of plays...I had an edgy musical in 2016 that was hopefully going to run in a small theater on the Las Vegas strip. It was well-liked by the producer for a couple months, then he did a 180 on me and went in a different direction. That one probably stung the most, because he agreed to let me do the music, and to share in the merchandising responsibilities, and because I really wanted my mother, who loved live theater, to see it before she passed away last year.

I do feel your pain, Martina - I do feel your pain. Mi spiace, Martina.

Is that really what the producer said, all your work was garbage? If so, that's really objectionable and offensive and it doesn't matter how much useful advice they then give you afterward.

That producer deserves some good Karma to come back to him - sorry to hear about your play, and even more about your mum - I lost mine in 2016, so I share your pain...I usually take few days off to commiserate myself after bad feedback, but so far managed to bounce back stronger, so hopefully by Monday I’ll be back to my positive self :) Grazie Bill per la compartecipazione! :)

Hi Pierre, she didn’t use that same words but she said I have a very long way to go to get good, in her defence she is a documentary producer as I submitted a project for a documentary and was looking for advice. She said even my shorts are student level (which is true, I am learning), but as nothing good came out of her mouth about my work, my brain simplified her words in one: garbage. I think I saw that coming when she said “I don’t want to be negative, but...”! I’m sure we all had people criticising our work or even our intentions, I like to remember J.K. Rowling’s story, who was refused by 12 publishers before finding one who took a chance on her...But thanks for your support :)

One editor rejected one of my short stories saying that I was unimaginative and had no remote knowledge of the English language. That same story was accepted for publication a few months later. So, I say, keep at it and you'll always have the last laugh!!!

Martina: I don't know if this applies to your critic, but when I was in school, one of my teachers was one of the world's greatest living poets at the time. He was a lovely and humane man in his life, but tore apart my college poems like a cat with a roll of toilet paper, and would also make some personal comments about me outside of the lines of the poems in the process. It seemed unfair in the ways he (privately) criticized me compared to the other students, and I ended up hating him.

I visited him like 20 years later. In our conversations, we got to talking about all of that, and he said "I just wanted to make you a better writer, because I knew you had it in you, and you were shortchanging yourself. Forgive yourself." It took me a lot of years to get over his rages towards me, and when he told me that, I realized how right he was, especially because I went there hoping to forgive him and kinda have a "cleansing of my soul" about that. But what a kicker: for a lot of years I walked around with a lot of wrong understandings and wrong emotions for the wrong person. Talk about bitter irony/poetic justice/epiphany/denouement and all of that.

I'm not saying that producer who reamed you was right or wrong in her criticisms of you, or her motivations were the same as my poetry teacher, but judging by the other comments you shared....she is trying to make you a better writer. Whether or not the work you submitted to her for her project is "documentary-worthy" according to her needs....but you said some great things about how she is trying to help you..."best advice ever" and that she gave you additional materials.....at least she is trying to make you a better writer.

Ouch, sorry Martina. I guess all we can do is consider the constructive comments and then use the non-constructive ones as fuel in our efforts in prove doubters wrong.

I met a WGA writer who said last year, 2017, he was rejected 100x by producers & his own reps. And he said it was one of his best years writing.

this is a fantasy business - it is not Life or Death. Don't trip over rejection but pay attention to what you think you do well and find folks who do the same thing as you.

I like that Matthew! Bill, what a great story, it sure applies to my experience, and yes, I try to get the best out of it. :)

Oh yes Adam, can’t wait to prove them wrong! :)

Dan, having the opportunity to speak with professionals is an achievement on itself - lesson tough to learn but feeling privileged I had the opportunity :)

When I was a kid, I auditioned for some pop artist who was being produced by another pretty-boy pop idol and actor named Bobby Sherman. I sat behind a big drum kit that wasn't mine and played with this guy and his backup musicians for less than a minute before the aspiring pop star abruptly stopped me and said, "Okay, audition over" and dismissed me. That wasn't exactly a confidence booster. Oh, and some producer who made a movie with Wesley Snipes said the script my literary agent submitted on my behalf was "The worst piece of shit he's ever read." The moral of the story is now I pay little attention to rejection. I just move on to the next opportunity that comes along.

Martina Cook it's cool to meet someone you respect but at the same time, you gotta get over the "privileged" part and look at peers as equals. Everyone is insecure, from established producers to unknown Singers on subway platforms. I worked as a dailies editor for a long time and I had clients- Emmys to Oscar nominated filmmakers - look at their footage and they're nervous, unsure. It's trial and error and lots of failure for everyone.

Haha Javi, thanks for the “new generations like ours”! I’ll take that :)

So true Dan... :)

That’s the spirit Zen Master Phil :)

A producer once thought my script was so bad they asked if I'd sent it as a practical joke

I think we all had them in many different forms. I had reviewers stating my art is too rigid, I have people saying my screenplays are too long (makes sense for a short) and so on. It's tough and there are many times I want bury myself underneath the blankets and never ever leave my room again. But you have to. You need to try again and again. It's how the game works. As long as you are happy with your own work. At least, that is what everyone's saying. Sometimes that's even hard to grasp. But they are right though.

Paul Z: That's hilarious my friend. I hope you saved and framed that rejection note.

Got a rejection letter once for a Major hosting gig that 1. Misspelled by last name throughout. 2. Called me TWO different first names in successive paragraphs. And, 3. After ripping in to my submission, ended by asking me to resubmit to them anytime again. Really?!?!

https://www.nyfa.edu/student-resources/5-brilliant-screenplays-that-were-rejected-repeatedly/https://www.nyfa.edu/student-resources/5-brilliant-screenplays-that-were-rejected-repeatedly/

Phil - not framed, but still have it. Makes for a great motivational tool.

I had a similar experience with an agent who said I had no talent and should go do something else. I wasn’t looking at making a career out of this but kept on writing screenplays I wanted to prove him wrong. He was probably right about me because I am just a self-taught hack. However, I did get a little better over the years and manage to land a WGA Agent, optioned two screenplays, wrote some on assignment and was employed as a Staff Writer for a short period of time. More recently I teamed up with Judy Norton who has been in the business for longtime. She got her first break playing Mary Ellen in the icon THE WALTONS television series that ran for 9 years. However. like Dan M said “this is a fantasy business - it is not life or death” so just keep on writing and hope for the best.

Worst rejection ever? When my mom told me I wasn't as talented as I thought I was. True story, but her comment actually lost its sting pretty quick as with all the other rejections. You use what you can from a rejection then move on ...

Or have you ever felt that you f...ed up the audition big time, and then to find out that you landed the part?

Haha Bill, but I’m sure Paul’s scripts are very good instead ;) Thanks all for your comments, this community is truly a great inspiration and support :)

I thought that Bill, and I think Paul knows it too :)

Last year, a producer in Munich told me my writing skills were similar to a mentally- challenged chimpanzee. I just laughed it off and sent him a package containing a hand of bananas.

Nina, that was awesome!

I was really mad at first but now I can laugh about it.

Nina: Some guys In Malta owe me a thousand dollars and never paid me. I'd be happy to get some bananas.

Zen: I'd send you some but they're expensive to ship.

One thing I learned in this business is that most successful people are pretty nice and wouldn't go out of their way to criticize an aspiring screenwriter. The ones that have big are rude and are the ones who aren't successful.

Nina. You are a lot nicer than me because I would've told that producer where he or she could stick those bananas.

Dan: Ja, es war schwierig, mich zurückzuhalten. In other words, it was.

Don't get the whole excitement. Rejections are never nice. Hence, why remember them or even count them, list them and make a top worst list? By this you only stay in bad vibes. Can you take something good out of it - like an advice - think about it and improve your work. But, if not simply be happy you didn't have to work with someone who doesn't like your work and move on.

Laura...because I’m human and my heart hasn’t turned into stone yet? Rejection is always hard to hear (at least for most of us). Yes, she gave me some material, but she could have structured her criticism in a better way if I may say. Yesterday I was in a course about critical response process, and I found it fascinating. There is a way to give constructive criticism that keeps in account that you have a human being in front of you. I have a thick skin in the sense that I get up after falling down, but thank goodness I still feel emotions about what happens to me.

Elizabeth - I believe sharing experience helps to give prospective. “Commune naufragium omnibus solacium“ said the Latins, sinking all together makes you feel a bit better lol...ps: no excitement at all...

An Agent on this site seemed to be warming up to me so I sent her some of my work. She told me she was "offended" by my work and would never show anyone what I had written. Never talked to me again after that. She was well aware I was new but just destroyed my confidence for months.

Thanks for sharing Michael, it must have been tough. I know of your achievements so well done of keep going and prove her wrong! :)

Thanks Martina! You seem to have rooted them out but be careful of people on here. Either they have no credits and lots of advise or fake names and pictures but again LOTS of advise.

Martina, firstly, good for you for putting yourself out there! Having one of your plays performed—wow! Congratulations! Secondly, after reading your additional comments... and with all due respect, I wonder if you have fused your own interpretation and self-doubt (that nagging, negative internal voice we all have—I hate that voice!) with the producer's comments? Sure, some people have a chip on their shoulder and can be quite rude or blunt, but what I suss out of what you have shared is that the advice was good; it's in the vein of being more prepared for next time, giving you tips. Plus she sent you materials—why do that if you are "garbage," right? So I say hold your head high. Take only her helpful tips, and take her sharp attitude with a grain of salt, and keep going! :)

Hey, Martina... Our brand isn't for everybody. Nobody's is. I would dig deep to see if there's any truth, in any critique we get, and train accordingly. Keep on gettin' it

Laura, thank you for your contributions, they make sense and they are very useful, however I am not sure why you read in my reply anything to do with you. My answer was objective in the sense that you asked a question and I answered it. I followed your comments in other posts and noticed that sometimes you take comments as a personal attack to you. Mine were not meant to be and I’m sorry you felt that way. If for tough skin you mean I should not feel anything when rejected then I’ll probably never get one lol...but I’m still here, and I still care, so here we go :)

Hi Beth! You are perfectly right, I learned a lot through this experience and I’m glad I did it, now back to drawing board and try to raise the bar :)

Thank you all for your comments, putting this behind me and using this experience as a climbing stone rather than a stumbling one :)

Don't throw in the towel Martina! A disappointment from one person, doesn't always mean there will be others. Your day will come. Keep your chin up, and strive to do your best as always! :)

Then you’ll be proud of me Laura, because I said thank you and was very polite. Also, the intent of my post was not not psychoanalyse anyone - it was just to share a positive experience and a negative experience all in one week to show how volatile this business can be - I also defended her in more occasions. :)

Martina, thanks for posting. We've all been there one way or another, so threads like this are truly helpful. To add... surround yourself with people who encourage, who help you push forward especially through tough moments. It is all too easy to be self-defeating. And it's a sign of strength to take it as a learning experience, then roll up your sleeves and go back to work. You got this!

Sorry to hear this - though, in my years of pitching, I've heard a lot of negative things, and instead of someone simply saying 'no" or "going to pass on this", they used the opportunity to use very harsh language. No worries - I keep on pitchin' but ...the absolute best of the worst is on my channel, where someone commented "the sound of your voice makes me feel like I"m being raped by an elephant" .....

Martina:

Overall, good advice from people. I'm with Beth on this one. Enjoy the success of having your first play performed. And Laura is quite correct in saying different folks will have a different tone, or as I say level of diplomacy in how they deliver their feedback.

When one of my writer friends sends me their work to read, as one did last week, I always lead off with what I like about the script. And, I offer suggestions by saying things like you might want to consider, rather than you should do this. That's just my style and it works for me.

But no matter how diplomatic the delivery, if there is truth in the feedback you get, you have the choice of making changes or ignoring those opinions. However, if you're in the phase where someone has paid you for your script or play, you may have much less flexibility. And if you're difficult to work with, you may find yourself being replaced.

Laura is also correct about being grateful for pros reading your work. I always thank readers in advance for "their valuable time" and thank them afterwards whether the want to move forward or not. It takes a lot of time to read a script or play. Quite frankly, many readers will never give you any feedback or respond again if they didn't like your script.

From my experience, and I know nothing about producing plays, producing films takes time and money and you have to be in it for the long haul. You're also going to have producers, directors and if your lucky enough to get something into production, have actors want you to make changes to your work.

I recently finished working with producer/director Sean Hoessli (Palm Swings, Sin City) on a true crime drama. I answered his Inktip ad that was looking for a Christopher Dorner screenplay. I made a pitch and he decided to work with me. He told me up front he liked Taxi Driver, Falling Down and Fight Club. With that in mind, my first draft script had elements of two of those films, including two detective characters similar to the one in Falling Down.

Sean came back at me on the first draft by leading off with:

Great speaking with you today.

Once again, I wish to congratulate you on your first draft of "Uncommon Warfare: The Christopher Dorner Story." You're a good writer and it's a very promising start with a lot of potential. I think we have a wonderful collaboration and the script just needs a bit of focus, in my opinion. As we discussed on the phone, here's a breakdown of my notes and where I believe we need to go with the second draft.

Sean then provided two pages of very well thought out changes. I didn't focus on anything in a negative way. He didn't like the detective characters and the third draft has one detective in a much smaller role. His critique of the second draft had even more notes and things he wanted to beef up in terms of conflict etc. Again, I looked at what he wanted from me as a writer and tried to give it to him. I did some more fine tuning on a third draft. I didn't incorporate every suggestion, but on a percentage basis used about 85 percent of his suggestions. At the end of the day, the third draft script is far grittier and more original.

Sean's received two great responses from two interested parties and had meetings this past Thursday and Friday. I'm waiting patiently to hear about the outcome.

I've offered this story to illustrate that getting work across the goal line is a long process, and in many cases, will challenge the writer to be collaborative, know when to stick their artistic beliefs and be flexible about allowing collaborators to offer input into the work. Though you may not always agree feedback on your work, many people will have a lot of opinions along the way. The key is to find collaborators that you can learn from and enjoy working with. That's takes time, experience and perseverance.

https://www.inktip.com/main_total_deals_closed.php?sel=17 (See September 5, 2017 post.

Martina: I watched your short films. Those are pretty good - and you have great film making instincts. You're really on the right track. Did you do the camera work?

Again, thanks for all your comments, although the original post only asked about sharing (if you wanted) your experiences of rejection. Thanks especially to those who shared stories, which I find the best way to learn...are we not storytellers after all? Back to work now! :) (PS: Bill, yes, all my stories and camera work, apart from "Twenty years" where I had help behind the camera :) )

Martina: prego, signora. And you know how forum topics can zig and zag. If you ask five writers "what time is it?"....one will tell you how to build a clock....one will tell you that time is a function of space....one will say "Celtix"......one will suggest you stop trying to psycho-analyze someone....and....if you're lucky....very lucky.....one will tell you the correct time. Si, signora....writers sure can be a funny bunch at times. Heh-heh.

Martina: These threads can be like tornados. They don't always go where you think or want them to go.

Look upon it as constructive criticism. If they don't provide feedback one way or the other have someone read it. Find actors who will read your script for nothing. Rejection is part of the game in Hollywood, don't get discourage.

Martina, is your duck a God of procrastination?

I haven’t yet had the courage to finish anything, so I haven’t experienced what you have. But I think you’re ahead of me because at least you went far enough to get criticized and are now learning from it. Chin up! She must see promise in you or she wouldn’t have bothered!

I read a story in a screenwriting book about someone with a huge passion for dancing. One day, one of the biggest dancers in the world came to that town and the guy presented for an audition. He failed. The dance expert said that person can't dance, so he gave up that dance dream.

Years later the two met by chance. "Just curious: Was my dancing really that bad" asked the student. "No idea", replied the dance expert.

"I wasn't really paying attention, but if you let me make you give up, then this wasn't really your dream!"

Don't let someone like that make you give up, maybe he/she just had a bad day, that's why. Or maybe it's just a way of behaving.

Carry on, because nobody has the right to control your dreams. Seek more feed-back, use the good parts of that harsh reply to see how to make your work better.

I repeat, don't let anyone tell you what to dream. They're not you. It's just an oppinion. I've read about a method that involves pouring all sorts of negativity and bitterness into aspiring screenwriters, a technique to basically tell them it's pointless.

The idea behind it was that "true" writers would never be stopped by this. They will keep writing regardlessly. It's a kind of "weeding out" process. I've been nicely rejected once for one of my screenplays(based on its synopsis).

Another time, same screenplay, it was rejected by silence. Looking back, I feel blessed because I kept working on it and God, how much did it improve! I feel lucky I didn't send that old, rough first draft.

The idea is to not be so focused on a possible outcome or get too excited, but rather draw your joy from writing itself.

Sure, we think about possibilities, about what happens next, we can even fantasize about the mythical million$, but ultimately it's still about writing. What happens next is a "bonus".

Even if it may look like a small thing, for me, even the fact of being here and interacting with wonderful people on stage32 is a blessing, and it wouldn't have happened, if it weren't for my screenwriting passion....

Of course we should care about what others say about our scripts, and use the feed-back to improve, but it's just counterproductive to cry or complain of the harshness of people who might not treasure "diplomacy" so much. Rather, we should take the bad feed-back as an opportunity to improve and move forward....

Oh my, that's tough. Sorry to hear that. Those are always tough. Recently I got a form rejection from a lit agent that was addressed, "dear author." It was like, "woo-hoo, they know my name!" It's all good, I know they're busy people, but it's still sad and hilarious at the same time.

Oh, man! Sounds painful, but this is the business! One day you get that and the next you get, "Your work is amazing, and I'd love to work with you," etc. Don't sweat it. Just try to learn something from it. :-)

Anyone who would compare your work to garbage, does not know enough to give constructive critisim and help you to find the right direction. A professional would be able to point out what is not working and provide you with information you can use to improve.

I had a literary agent pitch a script to a producer and I was supposed to scrub the script of profanity and I missed one F-word. The producer was so pissed he said my script was the biggest piece of shit he ever read. That was amusing.

I had a former film instructor who made it as a pretty big screenwriter read one of my screenplays for feedback. He simply said he hated hated hated it and then ranted how I should just toss it out. Since the other three folks I sent it to gave me more constructive feedback I just made it better.