So it’s 2021 and this goes back to 2015, so apologies for the saga—unless you like drama, in which case, settle in.
About me: I’m a 31 y/o writer. I have a small copywriting business, write and sell novels mostly for fun, and dabbled in various media i.e. screenwriting.
Beginning: I was in a debilitating motorcycle accident in 2015 that left me unable to walk for nine months. Ironically, I was hit by a major feature film director. I’ll skip the medical details but was staring down a long recovery period in physical stasis, was living in Los Angeles, and got it in my head to mess around with screenplays.
I had gotten pretty used to long-form (100k+ words) so a script was like hey, 20k? Let’s bang one out. Which is exactly what I did for three weeks during this period where I was bed-ridden. It was titled Scum, it was written under a nom de plume. I formatted it, packaged it, saved it, and kind of forgot about it, making the deal to myself once I was emotionally past the accident and physical therapy, I would blast it off and be world-famous. Maybe ten friends and colleagues read it and said it was good and they enjoyed the concept. The concept is unique. This is important later.
Middle: A year later I followed through. I read the pitch emails, crafted an ‘engaging’ query letter, and like the newbie I was who hadn’t yet been scorned and never thought it was going to amount to anything, sent it to every email address I could find. This included, specifically, the major agencies in Los Angeles. I received, well, four rejections from about eighty queries. Whatever, I’m used to that. This is early 2016. The project has lived in my email and Google Docs and that was where I thought it would remain.
End: I was having a viewing party of the fourth season of WestWorld at my place here (not in the USA) as I have a movie theater. Cue collective WTF from me and my friends, who stood up, incredulous, as the EXACT concept of Scum played put in the season premier, with the same dialogue.
The next day I dug in my email and found an opened receipt for a query to Jonathan Nolan’s agent at WME. He wrote this episode. I reached out to HBO (owned by WB) who, of course, never responded. I spent the next week interviewing intellectual copyright lawyers about this and said yeah, it was outright stolen.
BUT
They don’t own me credit, residuals, royalties, payment, or ANYTHING. All because I didn’t in my query stipulate that it was being sent to be considered for purchase. HBO finally reached back out and all but admitted they stole it, and gave me some ‘helpful’ pointers as to how my work would not be stolen in the future. Thanks!
So here I am. My first ever script was stolen and produced into a major, highly-rated television drama with serious talent attached. I’m pissed. I’m more than pissed. All I wanted was a credit and like, some taco money. I never expected anything from this script in the first place.
However, that doesn’t mean I was giving it out for free. Be warned and make sure you take care of yourself, legally.
Anyone know how I can work this into a career? Ha!
TLDR: Warner stole and produced a script, but won’t pay or credit because it was a “gift.” Can’t use it as leverage as it is now useless, since it was already produced and aired. No kudos given.
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If you truly believe that they stole your work sue them. Let a court decide.
BS. I don't believe you. Unless you got a time machine. Season 4 of Westworld hasn't aired/filmed yet
Sorry, this "steal" you claim sounds too incredulous. "Page Blaster?" Plus, the scenario doesn't fit professional practice nor common knowns or norms. I don’t watch Westworld either, but they only announced the 4th season in April 2020 with a probable release date of 2022.
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My best advice: move on. Write more. Keep going. If you do this, eventually something you make will get bought and you'll continue to grow in the industry. Don't be a one-hit wonder. Keep writing.
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So what's the BEST PRACTICE TAKE-AWAY from this scenario? Say you have a written work, Registered with W.G.A and are ready to Market it.
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I agree with Craig. Though Stage 32 is a great resource for making connections if what you're saying is true, you should be consulting an attorney.
Cameron Leigh James I did think that. Unless you assign copyright it remains yours. If they said in writing “that we took it as a gift”, that is an instant will in court.
I include myself in the next statement “we are not good enough to steal from”. This type of post builds paranoia and stops people from sharing and growing as writers.
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Rashika R thanks for the vote of support, haven’t seen you on here in a while, I hope all is well.
Yes sorry this is S3, E1
Craig D Griffiths I'm not building paranoia, just venting really
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Rashika R I can't afford the minimum retainer (75k) so I am here complaining and maybe MAYBE someone else can avoid this happening to them
Becky Balsano Thank YOU!! Yes, I have been hearing that as well. To quote Nirvana (directed at your lawyer friend), "I'm in debt to your priceless advice."
Most of us write because we can't stop. Yes, there is more in the reservoir but that doesn't mean I am giving 3 weeks of passion and craft away for someone else to benefit, and massively at that
Cameron Leigh James I didn't state I was gifting it. I sent it without them requesting which constitutes as a gift, as far as I understand from what the lawyers told me. When the agency "gave" it to Warner (their client), it is another link in the gifting chain
Beth Fox Heisinger Believe it or not, I don't care. Page Blaster is derived from the Page Master in A Neverending Story
Barry John Terblanche Was S3E1, my fault on the Season 4
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They have no reason to steal your script. If you're a first timer they can just low ball you for the negotiation price. They have a money-hose! It would be easy for them to just give you a meager amount of money vs WGA rate (which you aren't in), and they avoid any possible impropriety. I would have to agree with Mr. Nick Assunto. (note: the budget for season 3 of Westworld was like $80 to $100 million). Purchasing your teleplay would be nothing to them.
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Well, Page, maybe do care because this post is libelous. Your use of a pseudonym raises questions, too, sorry. As I said, generally before, about well-known professional practices, Nick further explained: "Gift?" They toss unrequested scripts to avoid coincidences. Whatever episode you suspect is similar to your work, it may have been conceived and/or written before you sent in your query. You mentioned you spoke to copyright lawyers; if you feel so strongly, perhaps talk to or hire an entertainment lawyer.
Nick Assunto - Stage32 Script Services Coordinator Nick that isn't how I said it played out. Obviously you don't know many high-level operators because I guarantee they don't care, as long as they bank or are given recognition. Yes it was my first script. It was NOT my first piece of fiction.
2. Yes, I attached it and that was my mistake
3. Coincidence maybe. But exact dialogue, exact concept, and an exact scene? No
4. Well, you didn't write a 4. I am writing a four. My original concept was an app where you bid to commit crimes such as ATM theft. Which was in my script. And the episode. And the get paid motherf***** was in my script oh yes, and also the episode. Stuff in Hwood gets stolen ALL. THE. TIME. Why would someone care if it was my first script of my 50th? In fact, it almost makes more sense since I wouldn't have the connections and they think oh, he's just a nobody. Ain't no thing
It isn't like I said my script was about love and building a house and lo and behold the Notebook was released and THEY STOLE IT. No, there are commonalities beyond coincidence here
Beth Fox Heisinger Libel is if it isn't true
Nick Assunto - Stage32 Script Services Coordinator I wrote for three weeks. It had been gestating for years. Yes, the pseudonym is in place for a reason obviously. This is the internet. Why would I publish my real name if this is my first post? I'm aware of the target this places on me
Nathan Mccoy I'm not saying the sinister cabal passed around blood and my script under candlelight and decided yesssss, this is the one we will steal. But if someone read it, forgot about it, and unwittingly recreated it years later yes, this would apply
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I totally understand. I've been burned before. I took my butt to Harvard and obtained a certification in Contract law. I may not know everything, but I know enough to never let that happen again. I hope you get things ironed out.
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Nick Assunto - Stage32 Script Services Coordinator The quote, while stealing an ATM, while using an app where you bid to commit crimes. Yeah. Put them all together
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Page, it doesn't work that way, neither does copyright, and naming that person, his agent, and the production company in a public forum and stating that they stole from you without that claim being held and proven in a court of law is libelous—something containing libel, a defamatory statement. Sorry. This is not some contract dispute either. Reading over your post again... they probably did not even open your email query. A low-level assistant may have clicked on it to see what it was, and then promptly deleted it or tossed it because you included a script. Typical policy. They will not accept nor look at a script that was not requested nor put it in the hands of "top people" for this very reason. The people you are accusing probably did not see it at all. That's what Nick has been trying to explain. This scene is a coincidence. Talented creative people come up with similar ideas. It happens.
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seems odd that you don't accuse the co-creator & co-writer of Westworld, Lisa Joy, who probably shares the same agent at WME as J Nolan. So basically, you are saying someone stole your one spec episode (Season 3, Eps 1) and the thieves built the entire Season 3 off it. (never mind Season 2 finale character arcs, cliffhangers).
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Had you registered the work with copyright.gov and (optionally) the WGA, you might have a legal leg to stand on. Otherwise, take yer lumps (real or imaginary) and move on. In the past 5 years, you could have/ought to have written and polished a screenplay a year.
Just to clarify: You already have a copyright the very second you create a fixed work, i.e., a screenplay; registering a claim of copyright with the LOC is required to bring a lawsuit. But claiming copyright infringement is another ball game altogether, and this is where this case falls apart.
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Tim Bragg I am new to this site. I only created an account here to moan about this, I wasn't even aware you could post scripts here. Thank though, I'll get around to it!
Barry John Terblanche Good point Barry. I'll get on that soon
A. S. Templeton Actually two novels :)
Hmmm. If this were played upon a stage now I could condemn it as an improbable fiction. Prove true, imagination, O prove true.
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So how is paranoia spread. By fable.
I shared my work and it was stolen (Gasp).
They said it was a gift (gasp).
This will happen to you and there is nothing you can do (bigger gasp).
I can’t afford to fight it (Sobbing in support).
So don’t share your work. To quote Gandalf “keep it secret, keep it safe”.
That is how paranoia is spread.
No one steals. Think about it. You find a lawyer that does the “no win, no pay” thing. They go to some small jurisdiction in Texas and lodge an injunction stopping the airing of the series until your claim is heard. There are such jurisdiction in the USA. Watch John Oliver’s episode on SLAPP suits. So you hit them with a court order, now they are losing millions of dollar to shut you up.
Would they risk that? No. They would have had all that sorted out before they shot a single second of the show. There is an entire team that focuses on that. Because one small wrinkle can stop everything.
Stories are as old as human existence. I know we all believe we are beautiful unique snowflakes, but we are not. We have all shared human experiences. Hence we tend to tell the same stories. So you (me and everyone) will see stories that are the same as ones you have written.
So paranoia isn’t an intention of anyone sharing their story. It is just an unintended benefit. Like Sharks, Crocodiles and Venomous Snakes, they all exist in abundance in Australia, doesn’t mean we should leave.
Craig D Griffiths Seems unnecessarily provocative. As I said in some other comments they may have unknowingly used the same scene. They read something, they forget it, it gestates, they use later. This snowflake rhetoric is tired.
I’ve also seen sites of companies that state basically if you send your script unsolicited Ed its fair game. I think this gives them the freedom to use ideas in it. It’s why you have to read their policies and NDA’s carefully. That statement like having a sign that says “beware of dog” after that you enter at your own risk. Also ideas cannot be protected - neither can a line. To win in court a certain % has to be accurately copied. About the app - i just saw a movie where criminals bid on an app on the outcome of criminal acts. I believe your story and think you should pursue it with a lawyer - find an up and comer who with do it on % - this is one case - you don’t need a retainer
Also WGA protects nothing - if you don’t have a copyright ... well. Just my opinion so don’t rip it to pieces fellows
Page Blaster so you acknowledge that (perhaps) they didn’t steal your work. Which is the point. They didn’t take your work. They created their work, which resembles yours.
You had an idea that someone else also had, that is the extent of this scenario.
Page - you do realize that if you do ever sue - everything you say here is admissible - like admitting they may have not stole your work.
Lyter Daniel I have to agree that it is horrible that someone feels bad. But this isn’t an issue. After reading the comments even Page is beginning to see people don’t steal (real people, not amateur friends). Even when you register you have to be willing to defend it. Aspirin was a registered trademark of Bayer, they never defended it and now everyone uses the word.
I registered my first script in 2015 (this was the last one I ever registered), I sold it last year to a UK company. I am in Australia selling to a UK company, why would I register in the USA?
Lyter Daniel Yes, I did
Craig D Griffiths Please don't tell me what I say based on your own prejudice. I believe they stole my script. Anything else you have improperly deduced. And please, no arguments about it
John Iannucci John I gave it as an example. I believe they stole the work and I have the email records. There is more that I won't write here
Tim Bragg Nice message! I have written a lot since then but not for film. Two novels and an in-house periodicial for a Fortune 500 company. Maybe QT comes here. Maybe not. I didn't post this to build Karma or get noticed and poached. It is mostly a rant and to gauge my own attitude
Barry John Terblanche I'm not sure I will because of some of the comments here. I'm already a little delicate at the moment releasing a novel and don't want to pile criticism, positive or otherwise
John Iannucci Sorry John. Is this a serious comment? If so, what was the movie? Thanks
Hey Page, I noticed a questions at the very end of your post. How do you work it into your career?
Don’t tell people that one of the richest corporations in the industry and one of the best screenwriters of the last decade stole from from an amateur.
It will make you look like someone that doesn’t have a grip on reality.
If you really want this to become part of your brand, perhaps using your real name would be a good start.
Think it was about a plane of convicts. - I’ve also seen it before. Yes its serious. It’s an idea - history the day the wright brothers flew the next day a pilot flew in France. Both had the same ideas. It’s actually a concept in concognitive theory.
By the way - the movie I saw was awful - hope yours was better
I’d sue if i was you though
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I find this unusual, because in 30 plus years in the business I have never heard of it being required that you offer something for sale in order to claim copyright infringement. I know that cases have gone before the courts without that - just because someone read the material.
If they requested your screenplay and read it - the issue will be whether Nolan also read it, and your ability to prove that. If you have correspondence that states that Nolan did read it and used it, but the flimsy excuse that you weren't explicit about selling the script - you have a slam dunk case.
So I would either get a new lawyer or forget it and concentrate on all of your other screenplays. Since that episode was made, you should have written 6 or 7 new screenplays, so focus on those.
Mr. Blaster... Aside from anything else: take some time to be chuffed with yourself that you smashed out your first-ever feature script in just three weeks, and it was on the money. Sounds like you write pure gold, so I guess learn the lesson, move on, and write three more in the next 90 days! :)
It's worth considering Beth Fox Heisinger's word regarding defamation though. I was directed to this thread by someone else, so your story's being discussed outwith of this thread.
Best of luck on your screenwriting journey, buddy.
Sorry to read this. You need to create a buzz. Take this public, including any admissions. Maybe there's a loophole and an attorney that is more calculated can help you win this. Some of these cases take decades. Settle in.
Tim Bragg I'm not super active on this forum. Never a real writer? What are you talking about? Also let me ask you a question...if you posted this thread, and like you said it MAY damage your reputation, why would you attach your name and face? That isn't very intelligent if all you wanted to do in the first place was feel out where you are and how others feel about your (my) story. I write a lot. If this pans out I will send you an ARC. There is no reason for me to do this outside of the reasons I've already stated and you may not like it but I don't know who reads this forum, and so I am being cautious. That's all.
Shanon Lee Thanks Shanon. It seems to be gathering its own momentum at this point
Marty Howe Contacted many, and almost nobody wants to go against WB since my case isn't a 10,000% slam dunk
Martin O'Toole It was in its own way validating. I DO have more faith in my work after this transpired. I am waiting for C19 results and if I'm positive, maybe I'll bang another one out. And Tim Bragg doesn't seem to believe this but I have an email address I send ideas to often. Maybe I'll dig in there and flesh one out, and hope it gets ripped off too! Haha
Tim Bragg I am in the States, not sure why it says London.
Craig D Griffiths I'm getting honestly tired of your contrarian comments. Just because I am not an established screenwriter doesn't mean I'm not an established writer. Your claims about my reality-gripping are a bit projecting. Either way, consider positive comments or at least something constructive. Cheers
And she politely and respectfully asks....... is there anyway to get out of this thread? I think it would be handy to know for future situations that don't seem all that positive. I have tried to delete my comment as a means to achieve this. Sorry, but If someone can tell me, I'd love to know.
Nick Assunto - Stage 32 Script Services Coordinator Thank you Nick. That's good info
Katherine De Bois Sorry for that Katherine. I didn;t expect so much vitriol. Have a good one and good luck with your career
Tim Bragg You don't seem to have grasped my last post. As for our screenplays, why are you comparing them? I'm sure they were different. Luck and talent play a large part in writing as I'm sure you're aware, so don't make assumptions about my work and why it may have superceded yours. I use VPNs for work a lot, hence the location. And don't worry, I wouldn't add you to my network either :) Cheers
Tim Bragg That's not what superceded means. As mentioned in previous comments, you can unfollow this thread. I haven't even looked at your profile and won't comment on your posts or any work you have put on this site so not sure why you would need to block?
Tim Bragg Yes I asked long ago for you to move on. Good luck with your work
Nick, it sounds as if your garbage is calling you to uproot an idea that's screaming to live beyond your expectations.
If you find the courage and focus to filter through your BURIED script, you can truly find another story and premise.