Screenwriting : What do you need to help you write the perfect screenplay? by Russell Palmer

Just write it, then write again, then rewrite it. The best way to solve the problems isn't in any software or books. Just write.

Check out YouTube video essays.

Uwe got FI telling you if your script is good or not on next edition...

https://twitter.com/fadeinsoftware/status/1456115445380091904

Upcoming will be even more...FI will probably sell your script on spot once u type in "The End"...

Interesting, yes I saw a few start-ups at AFM this week that intake a script and output predicted outcomes (box office revenue, award nominations, rotten-tomatoe and IMDB ratings, etc.) Even one called Largo.ai that gives recommendations for Casting your characters... interesting!

Each has a "human-in-the-loop" and doesn't replace a job, merely augments an existing Casting Director's skillset, saving them some time and research, and possibly even breaking them out of tunnel-vision to consider more diverse casting possibilities (not every leading man needs to look like Leo and Brad, as much as we all love them and their work).

10 minute rule. Force yourself to write for at least 10 minutes and give yourself permission to stop after that. More often than not you won't stop because you are in it by then. There's no software or technical app to help, that's even a weird idea.

Thanks yes agreed, I also use that rule at the gym... once you're there it's easy to stay longer

Hey Russell, this is Karen from the Stage 32 team. I just wanted to let you know I moved your post from Authoring & Playwriting to Screenwriting, as it fits much better there. Let me know if you have any questions, and all the best to you!

The answer to all your questions is no. No I don’t need help. The only thing a person needs is talent. I love playing guitar. I could play and practice everyday and I will not be as good as Chris Buck (welsh blues guitarist, do yourself a favour youtube him).

One day they will create some software that will replace silicon valley. But never writing.

Talent. That is it.

I'm very dubious about AI for writing tasks. Several companies work in this area, mostly for marketing writing and corporate comms stuff.

Because I have a background in languages, linguistics and publishing, I often get job alerts from these companies. From the job descriptions it is quite clear that teaching a machine to write is not easy.

But, glancing over your skill set, you might consider an app that would be able to generate basic story boards from written material. Let the AI turn text into pictures, in other words. That would be useful to writers, and I, for example, have zero illustration skills. Probs easier said than done, however :D

In my humble opinion: The only answer is to write like you're on a deadline. Writing is extremely difficult ... but it's easier than actually making yourself to sit down and write. The psychological preparation can be overwhelming - but once you start, follow your vision and your instincts ... it's a beautiful thing. Thank you for posting this!

Great ideas and suggestions! Thanks all

PreWrite is already out there and working in this space - it's a visual outline tool.

There have been experiments using AI to write screenplays - you can see the result from one of those here: https://www.geeksaresexy.net/2019/08/14/a-i-bot-writes-hilarious-batman-...

I detail my whole process, including the software I use and have on my radar here; Turn & Burn: Build Better Screenplays Faster by CJ Walley

Hi, Russell Palmer. November Write Club Challenge helps push me forward writing my script (www.stage32.com/blog/Join-Us-for-the-7th-Annual-November-Write-Club). I use Microsoft Word to outline scripts, but I think a software to outline scripts would be easier. Looking forward to seeing the software you guys are making.

Sometimes you can't go wrong with prompt cards and a wall/cork board. A lot of writers worry before typing about getting everything right, whereas this way you go hard in the opposite direction and throw everything out there! Ideas that work can be moved around and others that don't can be kept for another day. Its like solving a jigsaw puzzle when there are lots of bits in the box that might not fit or are missing - Its better to get everything out of the box first and then try to put it together. Then if there is something doesn't fit or is missing it is easier to see.

I have an older version of Final Draft and haven't seen their beat board function. I've downloaded beat sheets such as the one from Blake Snyder. If that tool or any other tool helps the writer plan their story better, I say amen to using what works. However, I'm not a big subscriber to adhering to an exact formula. My philosophy is, to begin with, an idea I can define with a one-sentence, (and God forbid) high concept logline. From there, I do an outline that gets me at least halfway through the screenplay. I generally try to open big and have a clear inciting incident. I believe every scene that's in the screenplay should contribute to moving the story forward. Anything that adds no value should be eliminated after reviewing the first draft. And without worrying about the precise planning of midpoint finales, reversals, debates, and B-stories, I endeavor to let those things develop organically. This is not to say that things don't need to happen, but I leave a lot of room for characters to take me where they want to go and to have story ideas spring up during the creative writing process. But for that to happen, one needs to have a very clear premise and reason for why you believe your idea will make a good story. For example, I wrote a gothic western using the infamous Bloody Benders family as my antagonists. In a high fictionalized story, I had them relocate from Kansas (where they really lived) and moved them to Tombstone, where they wind up tangling with protagonists Doc Holliday, Nellie Cashman, and Wyatt Earp. Nellie and Doc partner up in a kind of detective story but there are also classic elements of the American Western genre. Though I began with a basic scene outline, I had no idea how this screenplay was going to end. That came to me during the writing process. This screenplay won Director's Choice at the Wild Bunch Film Festival (the only festival dedicated to western films) last year. Another essential is having the discipline to sit down and create whether you feel inspired or not. Sometimes inspiration needs a jumpstart.

Russell, I work pretty much the same way Phillip does...the only tool I start with to fill up a blank page is my brain.

I begin with a logline, then list six plot points. Then I do research online to flesh out the story I want to tell...and after I've done enough preliminary factfinding, I'll come up with a combination scene list/outline.

And I won't even hit my copy of Final Draft 6 until I'm ready to type out the script. (And even then, as long as it helps out the story, I'll do some more research in order to make the screenplay believable.)

Wishing you all the VERY BEST, Russell...glad you're on Stage 32! (And good luck to you and your brother on the software tool you're both developing!)

More time & enthusiasm.

Thanks all! We have built a prototype based on your suggestions above and our ideas, I'd like to invite everyone posting above to try it out: www.cyberfilm.ai to sign up for free Beta version (or sign up on Google Forms link: https://forms.gle/6HaZEV8qnbR8sa2X7 )

If anyone signs up please give feedback here.

Thanks Craig! I agree we should get a fair shake. For legal reason I must say this product is not publicly launched yet for purchase, and that we are still in development stage not yet Live (see: https://beta.openai.com/docs/going-live).

But I could not agree more: Those who sign up for our Beta test are free to give their opinion on what they saw - no problem there and I am excited to hear what they say. Would you like to sign up Craig?

-RP

Check out John Truby ... he has the Blockbuster software which can help you. Think it's on sale right now for 50% off.

+1 Huge Truby fan https://youtu.be/CDKLuUfKYHQ

Hi, Russell. The software I use is Fade In. Not as comprehensive as Final Draft, or as expensive. But for just writing scripts, it's ideal.

Russell you work in software. You will know that your biggest problem is no defined problem to be solved.

There is very little in screenwriting that cannot be done with a pencil and paper. Software does formatting. That solved the problem of getting pages looking correct.

But story development is your brain pulling in all your life experiences and pour them out through character. Some people will try and push formula and false hope. Software guarantees consistency, which is the death of creativity.

Yes @Craig I would have agreed several years ago. But software just changed in a big way, and it's now different than you understand it... I explain here: https://russellsapalmer.medium.com/how-a-i-can-benefit-hollywood-and-sol...

Not sure I agree however, are you saying an author can't add character unless it's their personal life experience? That seems limiting. I say software can add structure, which is consistency yes but not the death of creativity. It's just a tool - no one wants to kill your creativity.

Russell Palmer I read that article. I don't see that any writer, or any producer, will be interested in AI generated stories. You're selling that idea to the wrong crowd. No one, not even the public, but certainly not the artist, is interested in AI generated art, other than as a novelty, and it boils down to that.

Shadow Dragu-Mihai, Esq., Ipg Thanks for your opinion. I understand people will be skeptical, but if the tools works and helps people produce great works of art, I think you'll change your mind.

Apple and Amazon already have tech ppl doing what you want to do. Making movies like it is some sort of math algorithm. Crunching number than hedging on artists' growth. Ppl cant even write a compelling 1st page and you talking about the perfect screenplay spec... and do what with it? There are thousands of great screenplays on shelves. Oscar winner GD Toro has over 15 paid screenplays he cant direct/make.

Hi @Dan I don't want to make movies using algorithms. This is what I explained in my post, Machine Learning goes beyond algorithms. It's brand new tech you haven't seen before. I would not be surprised to hear Apple/Amazon/Netflix doing this, it's going to help democratize creativity for the next generation and help make thousands more of those shelved screenplays in to movies. Imagine if GD Toro could upload his unused screenplays, press a button and 5 new movies pop out based on each idea? That would be pretty cool for him and us, the audience. I would like to see MORE great movies, not fewer.

Russell Palmer Um, you need to know how to make movies. ..the future is NFT scripts. Miramax is suing Tarantino for his entire film catalog.

GDT doesn't legally own paid screenplays. Corporations got better lawyers and rigged the game. James Wan & Whannell don't own SAW, a billion+ franchise

Russell Palmer You have mistaken me for someone who doesn't know what they are talking about, and further, someone who deals with fools gladly. You are wrong on both counts. I said you are selling to the wrong crowd, and the commentary here reflects that, unless you are in denial. You are selling a solution for which there is no problem. No writer has ever said, gee I wish I had a computer to write my script for me so I can have a coffee and just call myself a writer. They write because they are artists and artists express themselves. Its silly to put words into my mouth about present and future generations - who have no bearing on the question at hand, but who by definition are human. While it is apparent that you have little or no experience in scriptwriting or creative story telling or producing or directing, I do have a background in computers and programming (including machine language & assembly language) going back (almost) farther than you have been alive. In 1997 Deep Blue came along and beat Gary Kasparov 3-1/2 to 2-/3 (though the IBM team possibly cheated). It was an exciting series. But when Deep Fritz beat Vladimir Kramnik 4-2 in 2006... no one cared. When someone asks do you play chess? no one ever replied why bother, AI solved that problem. The perfect script is not a thing. Never was, never will be. A game of chess, at a deep level, is human relations; it is communication between two people. Story telling, and thus scripts, are also communication and connection between human beings. We do them because they are expressions of human thought. Neither of these is a challenge or problem to be resolved, and solutions to these non-problems are unlikely to be of interest to anyone... except possibly for the novelty. "Oh look here's a story written by an AI program". "I've already seen one of those. What's on NetFlix?" So let me ask you this, which you haven't alluded to here, and which isn't or couldn't be outlined in the article: what makes the objectively superior script? If you can't articulate that, you're not going to be able to assess any machine learning results in the first place. And I am pretty sure you can't articulate that.

If you aren't willing to create an outline, then don't really care about the idea. And if you don't really care about the idea then it's never going to get written. MS Word with the numbered list setting activated is all you need to make an outline. If you can't take the time to do that, you have a thought, not an idea.

No Russell you don’t understand the world. Unless you are solving a real world need you are fun and trivial, like a “coat hanger with a built in cigarette lighter”.

Can you clearly state the problem you are solving. We are asked to state our 120 pages screen plays in a highly specific way, in under 30 words. It is called a logline. If you cannot write a logline the belief is you don’t really understand your own story.

In two sentence can you state the problem you are solving. Without vague statements like “expand creative options” or “develop story and plot directions in new ways”. What problem are you solving.

Welcome to the notes process (inside joke for the writers).

Shadow Dragu-Mihai, Esq., Ipg @Craig @Rohit

Wow, thanks for your comments! I could do without the personal insults (you really don't know me at all), but that's what you get posting on Internet forums. :) I will use this discussion as inspiration to grow this company and vision, and I hope to check back with you in 5 years. I'm afraid you still don't understand what I'm trying to achieve, so while your straw-man comments above look lethal, you've got me all wrong.

I wish you no animosity and hope you continue making successful movies, in fact I expected at least a couple replies like this, so thank you for the direction and I will use it to craft a sharper vision. Obviously using AI to disrupt an industry is going to have lots of backlash, and the creative industries will likely have the most as seen here... but that doesn't make it correct, so I guess we'll see what the future holds.

Warm regards, Russell

[Edit Aug'22: Thank you for reducing the temperature of your comments after the fact, will hold on to copies of the original but leaving my admonition above for the record... your updated comments are sharper and less personal, so I applaud that]

Agree with @Craig @Shadow @Rohit yet mean no disrespect @Russell Al generator may indeed help those incapable of free thought feel better about themselves. There are many fools toys on the market (fake or real) making consumers feel they fulfilled a need ranging from perfume to gadgets. Theatre/cinema/web is still performing stories written by feather quill and ink from hundreds of years ago or charcoal pencil such as Shakespeare, Ibsen, Checkoff. Technology only brought ease of mass execution and perfect format but character and story can only stem from a human brain.

Fair enough, and with respect to you as well @Debbie. :) Agree to disagree.

I mean, that sounds romantic and poetic but, just know people a decade ago said the same thing about Chess and GO ("Computers will never be able to master these games, only the human brain can perform such complex tasks").

For those posting I encourage you to read my blog and then retort, but stating "character and story can only stem from a human brain" well - you just can't prove that - sorry! How do you know what computers will be capable of in 15 years? In 100 years? It seems more hopeful than proven fact. I totally understand that creative writers don't WANT these programs to be good at their craft, but what evidence is there that the line is drawn at creativity?

I'd be happy to continue this discussion on a friendly 30min Zoom call, if interested please DM me. I would love to hear more from the filmmaking community and be able to respectfully discuss this topic in real time.

Russell Palmer I don't see that anyone was mean to you Russell. I said you are selling to the wrong crowd, and... duh... you finally seem to understand that though you don't seem to understand why. For myself, I merely responded to your erroneous but not so veiled assertion that I don't know what I am talking about. You apparently didn't read my response, as I addressed the irrelevant-to-chess-players application to AI to chess. Your idea is a nice AI problem; it has no practical application to the film industry, or indeed writers in general.

To map out your story and character arcs, sometimes you can't beat a pack of prompt cards and a big wall or table to map your story on. This way you can add, can and move things around in an easy way that shows you what your story looks like. Some screenwriting software have "corkboard" functions for doing this too.

@Russel cool we agree to disagree. I’m not saying your product won’t help individuals needing a paint by numbers answer for something they can’t do themselves but as @Shadow pointed out the market is not here. Speaking for myself, ideas are so hard wired in my brain I need no help generating them albeit do admit needing software to perfect industry format. If I was marketing a product like Al I would try to partner up with book companies such as “…..For Dummies.” Some will benefit from a touch button “Chance Tombola” to receive a random feedback of words to give them the confidence to carry on.

Russell Palmer I was using as direct language as I could, I am saddened that I upset you.

Don’t be inspired by my words. Find a real project. “more plain words coming”. You are on a one way trip to an asskicking. This will hurt you.

@Ewan Dunbar Agreed. Just listened to a nice podcast last night, in which the guy who wrote Dead Poets Society described his process. He writes endless notes, then breaks them down into beats, one per page, prints them all out and then physically lays them out on the floor to create his outline.

As he said himself, it is cumbersome, but works. I also think that the physicality of index cards, printed pages or whatever can be helpful in itself for some reason.

I use "Samsung notes" on my smartphone to catch ideas when not on my desk (sometimes rethinking stuff while hiking), my plain white office cabinet doors with a bunch of post-its for laying out the structure and final draft to write it down (for getting help with formatting). I tried to use the final draft beat sheets recently, and maybe I'll do that more often in the future, but probably I'll stick to sticky notes for the first iterations.

tech ppl always know how to do any occupation/job in theory, but they dont actually do what they're selling themselves.

Algrothim experts/executives already ruined sports, played by humans.

Russell Palmer, I personally like what you're doing here and feel it's being grossly misunderstood at a conceptual level. Would like to talk more with you about it.

I'd probably by software like that.

Russell Palmer Russell, you are on the right track. I couldn't possibly read through all this, and couldn't not encourage you.

[Edit: Adding these lines after glancing at your medium article. I'd encourage you even if you are a bit more enthusiastic about AI's potential to beat experts. In storyworld, even if it EVER happens, human ingenuity from genuine life will rule and coexist.]

Yes, Final Draft is an industry standard by nearly all accounts, and solves one important problem very well, it's not the only problem writers face. You got some hints here (especially read between the lines where people say you can't.) You are going about it the right way to start on what you see as potential. As long as whatever you do can also talk to Final Draft, if you make a tool that helps you, it will also help other writers. If you don't reinvent that wheel, it will save you time and fitting tires.

There are a few high end packages I don't know much about and can't really even name them, but in general software for screenwriters is not even in it's second generation yet. So believe in your vision, I can see you are onto something, because there is a lot of potential ... Yes even if AI is definitely not going to solve all the problems, it will help.

@Dan, “Algorithm” shouldn't mean just one thing or one app's variant to us. Just like language shouldn't be written off because of hate speech.

@All I see all sides of this debate but on a personal level feel Al will be of no benefit to me albeit it could be of benefit to others. @Russell has a horses for courses idea, for some but not others. Al is not right or wrong. We all understand beat sheets, scenes, theme etc but for me the characters themselves drive the plot to their own extreme end to which only they themselves are capable of. I write organically even after waking from a night sweat where a character has said something in my dreams but could never punch a software key to enable a character to talk. For others Al may produce results.

Maybe stop talking to writers and getting discouraged and just sit down and write rather than trying to plan out an outline, just write and it will come to you - I never do an outline or plan I just write and the words flow!

I find it hard to imagine that writers who need help getting words on to the page are going to be able to compete with the multitude of writers who can write with ease.